Time Minus Zero

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Time Minus Zero

Postby RaveBomb » 20 Jul 2014, 16:09:05

*BOOM*

RED Team Victory
VIP Is dead.

MISTRESS Personal Victory
Ahab / Moby - Still fighting it out.

Final Positions

West Wing
necklessone - RED Seer- Room Leader
BlindSniper83 - BLUE Ursurper
Hellheart - BLUE Mad Scientist
meta4 - RED Mad Scientist (was Blue Wife, swapped by HH in T-2)
Mister E. Meat - BLUE Doctor
Admetus - Ahab (T-1 EOD Swap)
sphenodont - Moby
That PJ - BLUE Seer

East Wing
Aldax - RED Ursurper
rekard - RED Bomber
Ryvvn - RED Engineer
Snake - BLUE VIP
stigmata - BLUE Kangaroo
dferrantino - RED Kangaroo
Clearasday - RED Mistress (T-1 EOD 1 Swap)

North Wing
Ozymandias - BLUE Wife (Was red Mad Scientist, swapped by HH in T-2, left game shortly afterwards)


Thanks everyone for playing. It was entertaining.

I encourage you to share any relevent PMs. Forums will be opened shortly.
If our team loses, it's going to be entirely your fault.-rekard
If you still end up losing after this, it's totally not your fault.-Hellheart
RB: I shot the seer didn't I? Omega: Of course you did.

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Re: Time Minus One

Postby Admetus » 20 Jul 2014, 16:22:08

Well, poop.

I hope there were no hard feelings. To explain my abdication to red: As soon as the kangaroo came, West reasonably assumes red controls East and they have lost. The only thing to decide if that was true is what happens to the neutrals. I hoped that whoever had control of West might understand that, and know that I would be getting swapped.

Any other plan, like sitting on the leader position and hoping Ryvvn didn't vote -- that would rely on perfect communication between rooms or I might end up in East, alive, with sphenodont also alive. I had to make the last-ditch attempt to win, and I thought it was far more likely that Ryvvn would come online in the last hour than that he would not and West side would keep sphenodont.

Sorry. Things were going so well for me until a couple unfortunate decisions. Like for instance -- why didn't dferrantino kangaroo ME instead of some random blue person? You risked the election failing, and it looks like it was actually going to fail. If I'd decided the other way and stood my ground, that decision would have lost the game for red. You could have taken that out of the picture by swapping with me, causing the room to be leaderless with a red majority. I mean, if you're going to bank on that kangaroo to win the election, that's strictly better.

I was offering to let you swap with the VIP after-trade. That would also have guaranteed red victory, and been a lot more of a sure thing for me. If I'd "surprised" anyone, it would have been by blowing myself up, soooo, not likely.

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Re: Time Minus Zero

Postby rekard » 20 Jul 2014, 16:27:17

Problem is that communication was unreliable. I sent PMs to Neck and Dferr through Omega, but didn't get a response. So it was going to be pretty difficult to make you win if we didn't know tgat someobe actualky received PMs.

But yeah, Red wins!

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Re: Time Minus Zero

Postby Snake » 20 Jul 2014, 16:27:49

Technicalities.

If nothing else, we got CAD the personal.

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Re: Time Minus One

Postby necklessone » 20 Jul 2014, 16:31:28

Admetus wrote:Sorry. Things were going so well for me until a couple unfortunate decisions. Like for instance -- why didn't dferrantino kangaroo ME instead of some random blue person? You risked the election failing, and it looks like it was actually going to fail.


I don't know how much information dferrantino had about your cooperation with Red when he selected the kangaroo. It didn't come up a lot in the West room. Swapping out That PJ guaranteed the room was 4-2-1 so if everyone voted we'd retain control. Plus it kept spheno happier, letting us retain West to give CAD his victory.

---

Thanks for the game, Rave.

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Re: Time Minus Zero

Postby necklessone » 20 Jul 2014, 16:32:24

rekard wrote:Problem is that communication was unreliable. I sent PMs to Neck and Dferr through Omega, but didn't get a response. So it was going to be pretty difficult to make you win if we didn't know tgat someobe actualky received PMs.

But yeah, Red wins!


I got the Omega PM, but I wasn't entirely certain about sending sensitive information through him (or if there were limitations).

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Re: Time Minus Zero

Postby rekard » 20 Jul 2014, 16:33:40

Yeah, that's why I wasn't confieent on complicated plans.

Why did stigmata Kangaroo Meta4?

And why abdicate leader to Admetus before?

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Re: Time Minus Zero

Postby Mister E. Meat » 20 Jul 2014, 16:35:51

We kangarooed meta4 to try to get to a situation where we knew the bomber and had control of the east room to send the vip over if needed. I guess we lost control of east wing today though? And also kangaroo back the VIP if possible I think.

Can we open up the whole board and all the threads?

and HH: Sorry that I wasn't around at EOD although I don't think it mattered in the end.

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Re: Time Minus Zero

Postby RaveBomb » 20 Jul 2014, 16:39:56

Mister E. Meat wrote:Can we open up the whole board and all the threads?



Everything should be visible? I'll double check...

EDIT: Bah one second.
If our team loses, it's going to be entirely your fault.-rekard
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Re: Time Minus Zero

Postby Snake » 20 Jul 2014, 16:40:03

I think most of our plans worked around the misguided assumption that there were even teams.

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Re: Time Minus Zero

Postby necklessone » 20 Jul 2014, 16:48:32

Yeah, the loss of Ozy was a a serious blow to blue. I'm not sure it cost them the game in a purely theoretical world (the final east would have been 4-3-1 RBG, so Admetus siding with red would have ended up the same if all of red votes), but it certainly impacted the tone.

What was the rationale for the Meta4/Ozy swap?

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Re: Time Minus Zero

Postby Snake » 20 Jul 2014, 16:54:46

On the last day it lost us the game. It went down to an 11th hour vote which we lost because we had less people. Admetus was voting with us for a certain win over an uncertain (which he didn't get) one helping red.

For reasons you'll have to ask Hellheart.

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Re: Time Minus Zero

Postby rekard » 20 Jul 2014, 17:01:16

The combination of sending the bomber and doing the kangaroo at that moment doomed blue. Keeping the kangaroo until the last day would have helped more or lead to paranoia for certain. Although switching blue and red it's not something I consider a cool or wise move but oh well.

This game is fun at its core rules, but needs too much PMing. Also the rules make it a bit too mechanical and well it's not a TWG. It doesn't adapt too well to a forum game. The boards were pretty empty and well there was not too much to do. As a Bomber, I just kept silent against those that weren't going to be my help and that's it.

I helped with strat ideas although comms were unreliable. Didn't have to do much either or think about the game since a lot was out of control.

I guess it's a disadvantage of no one being around at the same time for the game.

It is fun, but ehhh... not TWG. I think stigmata didn't make a single post in the days I were in the West Wing for example. And there was no need. This certainly felt like a very different beast.

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Re: Time Minus Zero

Postby Admetus » 20 Jul 2014, 17:07:57

It wasn't a bad forum adaptation, but I would say it definitely needs tweaks from lessons learned. When you stretch a 30 minute game to a week, a few more things need to change. Let the players communicate when they're around, but limit the total amount of communication to something approaching what you'd get in those 5 minute rounds. PM count or length limits is what I'm angling at.

Someone else suggested maybe having special events that would draw some discussion to the day thread. That seems good.

And restrict the mad scientist to swapping two members of the same team. I imagine any cross-team swap has a serious chance of resembling this one.

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Re: Time Minus Zero

Postby Mister E. Meat » 20 Jul 2014, 18:08:19

I think there was very little incentive to post to the threads, that's true. I don't know how to resolve that other than to have more PM intercepts and limits on them.

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Re: Time Minus Zero

Postby Hellheart » 20 Jul 2014, 18:15:59

I'll start by saying that I wasn't totally into this game. There was a bunch of distractions and I never really sat down and looked at the setup and made sure I understood everything. So a lot of my decisions were probably sub-par.

That said, it was still a fun game for how it was implemented and it certainly isn't Ravebomb's fault that it ended on such a sour note. There's a lot of kinks to be worked out, but I think for a Shotgun game this would work super well.

Also, I'd like to thank CAD and Admetus for RP'ing with me. CAD had my favorite PM of the game, which I'll include with my set of 9 themed PM's that were sent immediately after Day 1 began.

necklessone wrote:Yeah, the loss of Ozy was a a serious blow to blue. I'm not sure it cost them the game in a purely theoretical world (the final east would have been 4-3-1 RBG, so Admetus siding with red would have ended up the same if all of red votes), but it certainly impacted the tone.

What was the rationale for the Meta4/Ozy swap?

I mistakenly thought that there was just one more room swap left. In that situation, I have a swap to burn and no good targets to speak of. Ozy was the best available target. I originally wanted to swap him with Blindsniper, but Aldax shuffled him over so I had to settle for Meta4.

That was a big mistake on my part, but not a game-ending one until Ozy bounced. I'm not sure Admetus goes with Red if they don't have the votes to win the room by themselves. He can't outright lose to sphenodont as long as he controls that room.

---

As far as the Meta4-roo is concerned, if we just try to send Meta4 across and he swaps the VIP on the way out than we need to Kangaroo the VIP into West, so either way the Kangaroo gets used. Kangarooing Meta4 into West late in the day leaves him with no useful targets to swap. It effectively takes him out of the game unless Red decides to Kangaroo the VIP into the room and swap him - something that we had a contingency for (one that would have failed, but it was there). I proposed the option and the others ran with it.

If I had guessed wrong about who the bomber was, we would've been shafted no matter what happened to Ozy since Dferrantino can just bring Meta4 in to swap the leader really late and change who was sent. They could freely talk to that player before then because it's in his best interest to be swapped and make the right send since he'd be guaranteed the win. So I'm glad I guessed right, but in the end it was fruitless.

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Re: Time Minus Zero

Postby Hellheart » 20 Jul 2014, 18:21:27

Mister E. Meat wrote:I think there was very little incentive to post to the threads, that's true. I don't know how to resolve that other than to have more PM intercepts and limits on them.

The key to this sort of game if you're going to allow PM's is time. The game has to move really fast so people don't get bored; that way it doesn't matter how little is posted into the threads.

If this were run as a normal game again, restricting it to something like 3 rounds instead of 5 and running it in tandem with another game could really help how it feels. Otherwise you have to go with some sort of PM restriction.

I'm not in the mood to dig up my RP posts right now, but I'll get it done by tomorrow morning most likely. I put a lot of work into those things!

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Re: Time Minus Zero

Postby That PJ » 20 Jul 2014, 19:13:14

Rave: Thanks again for the game. This was a nice change of pace and I enjoyed the challenge. I appreciate the ridiculous amount of work you put into managing all those PMs and actions.

Blue: Had a blast with you guys. HH, Snake, and MEM in particular. You guys made this fun for me, so I'm glad we had the chance to team up. Well fought. I'm sorry I blew it with the numbers miscalculation. While the number disparity ultimately screwed us, I think, I should've seen it coming sooner. Might've played out differently.

Admetus: You rotten, rotten traitor. :P And after we trusted you.

Red: Good job, guys, though I wish you hadn't waited until the very last moment to pull the kangaroo + usurp. I knew it was coming a minute after EOD on Friday. Should've just jumped and locked the votes down, gotten it over with instead of leaving this in the back of my mind all weekend.

Various answers re: actions:
- The meta4/Ozy switch was to mess with strategy, timing of any potential mad scientist hijinks, communication, and gain valuable intel. Instead all we did was lose a player and gain absolutely nothing from the deal. I still think it was a brilliant stroke, HH, and it should have panned out in our favor far more than it did. But I don't think anyone wants me to go on and on about that.
- We kangaroo'd meta4 because we were paranoid about number balance and possible mad scientist things going on, probably far moreso than we needed to be. The plan was to get the bomber and VIP in the East, where we had control, and then jettison him out on the last day. Two problems: 1. We miscalculated numbers. Originally, 4 was not enough to usurp, and then it suddenly was, but we didn't adapt the plan. 2. We didn't know 100% who the bomber was, so we didn't want to put all eggs into that basket. Had to try and hold West, too, and that made our numbers precarious. In hindsight, we were probably more worried about a switch than we needed to be.
- Abdicating to Admetus was part of the bargain for his assistance. He'd actually demanded we all vote him in, instead, which we were planning to do, but I asked him to vote me in once meta4 laid an erroneous vote for me, because it was quicker. And because I follow through on my deals, I abdicated.

Anyway, fun game, would try again, even if a few bits left a sour taste in my mouth (through no fault of our illustrious Ravebomb)
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Then he went and shot himself, saved me and got himself lynched because of it. You magnificent fool! -Mister E. Meat

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Re: Time Minus Zero

Postby Admetus » 20 Jul 2014, 20:51:20

That PJ wrote:Admetus: You rotten, rotten traitor. :P And after we trusted you.

Sorry. I was trying to be as reasonable and predictable as possible, given the unreliable communication cross rooms. I would never have expected the best result would come from assuming Ryvvn wouldn't show up, but it looks like that was the right play. So it turns out the person I really betrayed was me!

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Re: Time Minus Zero

Postby Hellheart » 20 Jul 2014, 20:53:00

Admetus wrote:
That PJ wrote:Admetus: You rotten, rotten traitor. :P And after we trusted you.

Sorry. I was trying to be as reasonable and predictable as possible, given the unreliable communication cross rooms. I would never have expected the best result would come from assuming Ryvvn wouldn't show up, but it looks like that was the right play. So it turns out the person I really betrayed was me!

You got exactly what you deserved :P

After Ozy was converted and the Bomber got sent to East, were you edging towards working with Blue instead?

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Re: Time Minus Zero

Postby Ryvvn » 20 Jul 2014, 20:57:06

So sorry to my teammates for my absence during what would have been a pivotal moment! If not for Admetus giving red the win, my inattentiveness would have cost us the game. This was a bad week for me to have been playing a game at all, but I still tried to put forth the best effort I could, which ultimately led to a lot of confusion on my part and almost costing my team the game at the end. As much as I want to try to take part in every game that takes place here, perhaps I should rethink my involvement in the future when I know I have major life distractions happening at the same time.

As far as the game itself went, without having played the parlor game, my opinion is certainly limited, but I agree with others that the PM heavy nature of this game decreases the overall enjoyment. I would be interested in seeing this game run with player PMs removed entirely, even role requests/shares have to be proposed publicly (only the GM would then reveal the info to those players via PM). I also wonder about having the color and role separated, is there any real reason to do this? Do they do this in the parlor game? Why not just have all reveal/shares be full information?

Also, are the parlor games set up to have both sides so equally balanced with the roles? I think it would be more interesting, despite possible imbalance, if only one of each role (except maybe for seer) could be potentially assigned.

Forcing a full reveal would stop people from publicly revealing only their color (as I did early this game) and cluing their teammates into safely sharing with them. I would have had to be a lot more careful of who I revealed to or shared with, as would everyone. Having only one of each role would seemingly give more incentive to wider sharing to learn what roles are in the game.

Oh, and on the note of my constant confusion having to do with the role rules, I think having the GM send the PMs to players during shares/reveals with boiler plate and detailed player role "cards" would have helped alleviate that. I had to keep going back and looking over that roles list which I kept misreading and was poorly worded or just not descriptive enough in spots.

Anyway, I'm still glad I got to experience this game, and it just makes me that much more interested in getting to try a live version of it!

Thanks so much for running this, Rave! I definitely would like to play more, so if you do run more in the future, perhaps Shotgun thread would be best to work the kinks out?

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Re: Time Minus Zero

Postby Admetus » 20 Jul 2014, 21:06:21

Hellheart wrote:You got exactly what you deserved :P

After Ozy was converted and the Bomber got sent to East, were you edging towards working with Blue instead?


What did I deserve? I'm still curious why I'm getting blamed for this. If you'd abdicated or not abdicated to me, red got 5 in the room and blue had no answer for it. I'm only guilty of trying to get things settled sooner so that the decision wasn't going to be made at the last second.

After blue used the kangaroo and scientist first, I was actually thinking there was no way for red to fail. But that's because at the time I had the impression that communicating through the ambassador was working really well, and both sides would be able to react to the situation. I spent a lot of time and energy on trying to prevent my bridges from being burned, though. I'm serious that it seemed like the unaligned could gain a lot of power very easily by being swing votes, that power would be short lived as the other faction could torpedo their mission very easily. I didn't want to give either side a cause for revenge.

It turns out I wasn't just exaggerating when I told people I had more information than any group. I wasn't aware the gaps in team knowledge were as big as they were. Sadly in the end I couldn't quite nail the victory down.

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Re: Time Minus Zero

Postby Hellheart » 20 Jul 2014, 21:23:16

Admetus wrote:
Hellheart wrote:You got exactly what you deserved :P

After Ozy was converted and the Bomber got sent to East, were you edging towards working with Blue instead?


What did I deserve? I'm still curious why I'm getting blamed for this. If you'd abdicated or not abdicated to me, red got 5 in the room and blue had no answer for it. I'm only guilty of trying to get things settled sooner so that the decision wasn't going to be made at the last second.

After blue used the kangaroo and scientist first, I was actually thinking there was no way for red to fail. But that's because at the time I had the impression that communicating through the ambassador was working really well, and both sides would be able to react to the situation. I spent a lot of time and energy on trying to prevent my bridges from being burned, though. I'm serious that it seemed like the unaligned could gain a lot of power very easily by being swing votes, that power would be short lived as the other faction could torpedo their mission very easily. I didn't want to give either side a cause for revenge.

It turns out I wasn't just exaggerating when I told people I had more information than any group. I wasn't aware the gaps in team knowledge were as big as they were. Sadly in the end I couldn't quite nail the victory down.

You rushed it and you gave up control in a situation where holding on to that control as long as possible costs you absolutely nothing. If Red takes over the room on their own, you're still getting sent. They don't have anybody else they need to send, and they didn't need control of the other room at all so sphenodont had no leverage. All you had to do was play typical neutral and let Red finish taking control since they already set that up. If you still have control, you send the Bomber for the Blue win and almost certainly your own win.

Were you told that Red controlled West? If you were, you should have paused and thought about what that meant. That only happens if CAD votes for Red. CAD's only going to vote for Red if they guarantee that he'll be sent to the VIP. CAD did exactly what he should have done: he didn't know what Blindsniper would do and there was no guarantee that the leader would be overturned in the other room, so he brokered a deal to make sure he wouldn't lose. Sphenodont is never going to be sent across if Red controls West.

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Re: Time Minus Zero

Postby Admetus » 20 Jul 2014, 21:55:03

Meh. I laid out my reasoning in the first post. And when dferrantino arrived, he said red was short of the election when he left. I made my choice, it was as reasonable as I could make it.

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Re: Time Minus Zero

Postby rekard » 20 Jul 2014, 22:07:16

The scientist swap of Meta4 for Ozymandias was a not so wise move. It let the red team know a blue role without the need of a seer or reveal. At the same time, it was a rude move because it's like kicking out a teammate to put him on the opposing team. And swapping the teams let's teams learn other's information.

Also using the kangaroo to attempt to control the West Wing was mistimed since it gave away roles again without needing a seer. Blue should have just tried to keep control of one wing and use their resources appropiately. But seems paranoia got to Blue and gave Red the win.

At the same time, Red was lucky Admetus jumped the gun early, or we would have lost since Ryvvn didn't show up.

In the end, this game has too small of a scope to last for days. Like Hellheart said, it can be great for shotgun games but that's it. And well it's not a TWG. It doesn't provide the same excitement or intrigue.

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Re: Time Minus Zero

Postby Hellheart » 20 Jul 2014, 22:10:25

Admetus wrote:Meh. I laid out my reasoning in the first post. And when dferrantino arrived, he said red was short of the election when he left. I made my choice, it was as reasonable as I could make it.

To me, it was rather cut and dry...

As a general rule, CAD will always pursue a Lovers' victory over all other options. In this specific case, CAD loses nothing by going for the Lovers' victory so you could be absolutely certain that it's the only thing he cares about. Unless the VIP is Kangaroo'ed to West, CAD's always going to be sent to East because he's the true swing vote in that room.

If the above is true, then you only win if the Bomber is sent to West. So when it looks like Red will take control, you hold out as long as possible because it's your only chance of winning. For your purposes everything else is completely irrelevant. If Red takes control it doesn't matter who they send, all that matters is that sphenodont is never going to be sent to East so you'll lose every time.

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Re: Time Minus Zero

Postby Hellheart » 20 Jul 2014, 22:23:48

rekard wrote:The scientist swap of Meta4 for Ozymandias was a not so wise move. It let the red team know a blue role without the need of a seer or reveal. At the same time, it was a rude move because it's like kicking out a teammate to put him on the opposing team. And swapping the teams let's teams learn other's information.

Also using the kangaroo to attempt to control the West Wing was mistimed since it gave away roles again without needing a seer. Blue should have just tried to keep control of one wing and use their resources appropiately. But seems paranoia got to Blue and gave Red the win.

Necklessone had two Seer visions a day and Stigmata spent the entire game in that room. He Seer'ed me on Day 1. IIRC, he Seer'ed Stigmata either the day of or the day before the Kangaroo. You did learn Meta4's role, true, but Meta4 and Snake would have been in the same room on the final day so it was irrelevant. The Bomber is there and you know the VIP isn't in West, so you don't need to know which unidentified blue is actually the VIP. It's not like you're going to send off some random Blue on the last day.

The information swap and team shuffling is an inevitable consequence of the Mad Scientist's power. We gain more information from Ozy than we lose from Meta4. In fact, Ozy allegedly quit because Meta4 wasn't playing nice with you guys, and Admetus of all people had to tip you off to the switch. From an information standpoint, it was a fantastic move.

( Which reminds me...That PJ, I didn't remove Meta4 from the group conversation because I didn't want to tip off Admetus to the change; plus, I figured it'd confuse the living shit out of Meta4. I felt like letting Admetus know about switch right off the bat might have been a mistake. )

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Re: Time Minus Zero

Postby rekard » 20 Jul 2014, 23:48:09

It would only be irrelevant because the kangaroo was not used optimally. If you have an unknown vip and wife in the same wing with no red seer in there, it's not possible for red to know who is who, so they would have to rely on luck if they want to mess up blue. The kangaroo only needs to use his skill on the vip and then prepare their role leader to return the bomber if the kangaroo brought him back because they would not lose the west wing. It's all part of a whole. The team shuffle is not inevitable. It's a decision of the scientist, but doing that just gives your information to another, which makes the move just not really good.

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Re: Time Minus Zero

Postby Clearasday » 21 Jul 2014, 00:53:55

Hellheart wrote:Were you told that Red controlled West? If you were, you should have paused and thought about what that meant. That only happens if CAD votes for Red. CAD's only going to vote for Red if they guarantee that he'll be sent to the VIP. CAD did exactly what he should have done: he didn't know what Blindsniper would do and there was no guarantee that the leader would be overturned in the other room, so he brokered a deal to make sure he wouldn't lose. Sphenodont is never going to be sent across if Red controls West.

If you look at my PMs I was very open to pursuing a Blue victory right until the end if it meant I was given my personal victory. I would have voted for whoever would have helped me get my personal goal and actually worked with me, and until the end, Blue were much more interested in keeping me in the loop and working together. Especially when Ozy basically decided that he owed me nothing and I owed him everything, from that point on I was ready to help anyone else. However, when Sphenodont sided with Red and it became clear Red could get me both a personal and team victory I had to switch over and jump into line. It also helped that I feel necklessone is pretty damn trustworthy.

So apologies to That PJ and Hellheart, I wasn't leading you along, and was entirely serious about a lover's victory until the end.

The game was good, and I'm happy I kickstarted it for the parlour game, but the forum game needs a bit of work. First, the rounds need to be much shorter. I think it would work better if people didn't have enough time to make their decisions, so 3 minute rounds or something. Secondly, the roles that are selected for the game have to be ones that work better on forum rather than parlour, eg maybe swap out the Mad Scientist for the Spy (Must lie in colour reveals) etc. Still, good game as always Ravebomb.

My RP inspiration came from McKrettin, the director from Scott of the Antarctic by Monty Python, in case anyone wondered what the hell I was doing. Great, brilliant, fantastic, REWRITE!
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Re: Time Minus Zero

Postby stigmata » 21 Jul 2014, 00:55:22

Good game, Rave. :)

In terms of useful feedback: I did have fun, but I found that there was a huge learning curve for me, made more difficult by the fact that I received all four of Rave's emails (reminder, role, and so on) at the same time, on day 2 (I think). From that point on, I found it really hard to get myself involved because of the surprising amount of effort that was involved, from my perspective, almost without any notice.

I guess another PM game in the future might be better if it does something to encourage players to perform some action every day. Voting daily is one thing, but in a game like this, maybe there's something else that can be done. I don't know, though, I don't really have any solid ideas about that.

It was a good game, though, and I'm just sorry I didn't play as actively as I'd planned to.

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Re: Time Minus Zero

Postby Snake » 21 Jul 2014, 01:58:19

I think the game was ok. I can see the potential as a forum game and a parlour game and others have stated possible improvements for the former.

With the game being so pm heavy and there being a lot of time spent waiting, I think the company was vital for my own enjoyment. Thanks blue team. I think I would have gotten quite bored without our ridiculous theory-crafting.

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Re: Time Minus Zero

Postby That PJ » 21 Jul 2014, 03:17:02

Hellheart wrote:( Which reminds me...That PJ, I didn't remove Meta4 from the group conversation because I didn't want to tip off Admetus to the change; plus, I figured it'd confuse the living shit out of Meta4. I felt like letting Admetus know about switch right off the bat might have been a mistake. )

Yeah, I realized that after the fact. I reacted in haste because I didn't want to tip actual intel.

Clearasday wrote:So apologies to That PJ and Hellheart, I wasn't leading you along, and was entirely serious about a lover's victory until the end.

You were fine. I popped into the West thread after I got roo'd and saw 1. Red had control, and 2. CAD was going over anyway. Since that was the move we would've made anyway, I was content.

As Snake and I discussed--even if we were going to lose, we were happy to help someone who was helping us try to win.

And HH is right, Admetus. What you 'deserved' was basically being the only force to blame for your loss. :) You played both sides pretty well, but I was serious in one of my last group PMs--your chances to win with Red were gone. It was down to us or nothing. But I'm sure you had fun with it, which is the important part. I'm not too worried about the betrayal, either. It happens in these games all the time. I just keep updating my log of who is trustworthy and who is not for the long game.
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Re: Time Minus Zero

Postby Meta4 » 21 Jul 2014, 05:15:17

Interesting game, thanks for running it Rave.

The role/team swap was definitely unexpected. I didn't have any useful powers as the wife, but I did have a fairly comprehensive list of player teams and roles I had built with my blue peers. It seems like losing that info to the red team was more damaging than anything gained by swapping me.
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Re: Time Minus Zero

Postby Snake » 21 Jul 2014, 05:22:55

Meta4 wrote:Interesting game, thanks for running it Rave.

The role/team swap was definitely unexpected. I didn't have any useful powers as the wife, but I did have a fairly comprehensive list of player teams and roles I had built with my blue peers. It seems like losing that info to the red team was more damaging than anything gained by swapping me.


In retrospect I don't think we gained anything so you're probably right :lol:

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Re: Time Minus Zero

Postby Hellheart » 21 Jul 2014, 06:01:04

The set of 7 PM's that I sent at the start of Day 1 are spoilered below along with the post that referenced them. I had everything pre-typed before Day 1 began and just sent all the PM's in succession and then made the post :lol:

[+] Day 1 Themed PMs
At the outset of Day 1, Doofenshmirtz makes the following post:

Well, either Perry the Platypus left for the other room or he's still here in disguise. Either way, one of you must have seen him. I just need to find a way to show you what he looks like, privately, so we don't arouse his suspicion.

I know! I'll create a Lost Pet poster and use this nifty new messaging system to send it to everyone! Everybody tries to find a lost pet, so it's foolproof! All I need to do is draw a picture and put it on a poster...there. Now, how does this whole messaging thing work?

Oh neat, an auto-messaging feature! Just the thing for computer-challenged old folks like me! Hmmm, what's this..."Warning: This feature is current in early Alpha. Aloyse von Roddenstein Evil Incorporated cannot be held responsible for whatever this thing chooses to send. Use this at your own risk unless you're Dr. Doofenshmirtz. Dr. Doofenshmirtz should totally trust this feature to do exactly what he tells it to do."

It's about time I got some recognition! Let's fire this baby up and send off some messages!

...

Doofenshmirtz Evil Incorporated!

Hello? Mother, why are you calling me? No, I didn't send you a suicide note. Calm down, mother. Yes, I know how much that would hurt Roger. Yes, that would be really selfish of me. But I didn't even write...yes, mother, I'll apologize to him right away. I know, you're always disappointed in me. Look, I've got to go, so goodbye mother...click

Well, that's odd. I wonder what messages this thing sent...WHAT? I thought finally put that video behind me! Who even took these pictures? Excuse me, this script is private. And that letter was sent through the mail, it isn't even on my computer! Well, at least my poster got sent to one person, so I can just ask...myself? Why would I possibly want to send this poster to myself?

Rodney, you lying fiend, I should have known you'd do something like this!

This post is linked to 8 embarrassing PM's, one for each player in the room (I PM'd myself with the poster that got posted in both rooms). These are the PM's, with the subject of the PM as the "author" of the quote:

I budget so well! wrote:Mr. Heinz Doofenblat,

Enclosed is a bill of $3,654, plus a 20% late fee, for the food consumed by your robot during your stay at the Quantum House.

Your claim that this food was actually consumed by an army comprised entirely of one person with the ability to time travel is, quite frankly, ludicrous. We have charged you an additional $50 for forcing us to read such drivel.

If we do not receive payment in 30 days, we will be forced to assign your debt to a collection agency.

Sincerely,
Mr. or Mrs. Cat-in-a-Box

My schemes always go according to plan! wrote:Opening Scene: Perry the Platypus drops through a trap door into a cage trap

Doofenshmirtz "Perry the Platypus! I didn't know it was Fall already! That first step is a real doozy, eh? So nice of you to drop in!"

Perry "..."

Doofenshmirtz "I don't have any real backstory for this one, so...BEHOLD! The Secret-Agent-Reveal-inator! All I have to do is point this at a Secret Agent and press this button right here and it will capture and reveal his true identity!"

Perry quivers in fear and futilely attempts to escape

Doofenshmirtz "It's no use Perry the Platypus, I've already used it on you. And now that I've gotten you out of the way, nothing can stop me from taking over the ENTIRE TRI-STATE AREA!"

Everybody "Oh Dr. Doofenshmirtz, thank you for freeing us from the tyrannical rule of your older brother Roger! We always thought you were cooler and more handsome but we were afraid that he would hurt us if we said anything!"
'
I'm Such a Great Poet! wrote:Ode to a Playpus

You're semi-aquatic
You have a big tail
You wear a fedora
I'm late on my rent

You thwart all of my plans
You break through my door
You're easy to trap
Norm go get groceries

Hey look, I'm a total failure already! wrote:2013 New Year's Resolutions
  1. Convince Charlene that I'm an evil scientist to make Vanessa happy FAILED
  2. Pull off at least one evil scheme REALLY FAILED
  3. Figure out why people keep calling me a pharmacist FAILED

2014 New Year's Resolutions
  1. Try not to be a total failure at everything.
  2. Stop writing "FAILED" at the end of previous New Year's resolutions. It's depressing.


These are my favorite outfits! wrote:Image
Image



I had a couple light RP exchanges with CAD on Day 1. Then he tosses me this gem when he's sent back to West on Day 3.

Clearasday wrote:It turns out Ozymandias and the rest of the crew in the other room are playing this fantastic new film that I absolutely have to direct as soon as I get back there. It's a silent movie, and in it they basically spend all day saying nothing the fuck at all to anyone and then the movie ends. Brilliant right? I'm a massive fan, I'm thinking of writing a glowing review of it already, and I haven't even seen it. But it will be fantastic. Willn't it? Is willn't a word? Yes, and a great one at that.

The videotaping was great though but it turns out you can't just do that kind of thing with your hands. Yeah, great but crazy. Apparently you need to do more than just form a square with your fingers and look through it. Apparently that doesn't actually record or do anything at all, but it does nothing at all in the most fantastic way possible so no need to worry. Now, we need to make some rewrites. With your collaboration and my listening to your collaboration, together we could be a film-team to be reckoned with.


When I return to West on the final day, we had this exchange starting from a PM labeled: "I come bearing...this!"

Hellheart wrote:forms a square with his fingers

I found it in the other room! I can't wait to see all the great footage you captured with this thing!

They also told me that you were the VIP's girlfriend or something, and that he really wanted to get back with you before this whole thing is over. So I got all excited and wanted to be sent back over here to tell you the great news! And maybe get cast in one of your movies in a leading role. I mean, look at me, I've got the charisma and charm and subtlety to pull off anything!

Clearasday wrote:YOU FOUND IT! Great, now I've just got to remember how to make it work. These things are complex, but brilliant, but difficult, but fantastic, but heavy, but the footage quality is just out of this world.

Marvellous yes I'm a big fan of the VIP, I've been trying to get close to him for years to get him to greenlight my latest movie, Platypus' Behaving Badly, but it's been an uphill struggle all the way. Something about neither my current backers nor his current backers being interested in my new movie. That's.. great.. but I'd really love to meet up with him. I think I've found the answer though, this blindsniper guy, who is absolutely brilliant by the way, said that he'd help me get over there! My real question is whether or not I can trust him you see, because even though he's great, if he does betray me, I end up with two defeats (team and personal) and my movie will be absolutely ruined. I'll have to push casting back to at least 2017, and that would be hell on the budget (Have you seen the budget by the way, I think I left it in the other room as well?)

Now we just need to find another star to play your love interest in the film and we'll be all set to go. Splendid, brilliant, magnificent, great!

Hellheart wrote:Who needs backers? I get this enormous alimony check from Charlene every month and this one just arrived. Here, you can use it to make your movie!

You've got to pursue your dream, no matter what anybody else thinks. If somebody says to you: "Doofenshmirtz, this -inator doesn't seem very evil. I mean, talking to whales? What evil purpose does this have?" You have to respond: "Of course it's evil Perry the Platypus, now THWART ME!"

Your friends will come around eventually. They always do. It's one of the perks of being "misunderstood," which is exactly like being evil except nobody blames you for anything! You really should try it. Go after your love interest and make this movie you've been trying to make. If it all blows up in your face because your nemesis breaks out of your trap, then wait until you change back from whatever hideous monstrosity you've become because you got blasted with your own -inator and then try again the next day. No matter how many times you stray, that alimony check will come in through the mail like clockwork! It's like a license to commit evil!

What I'm trying to say is, make sure that when you make this movie that I'm the leader of some utopia and Rooger Doofenshmirtz, that poor excuse for a mayor, drives the whole thing into the ground! Then everybody will finally realize that I should be the ruler of the ENTIRE TRI-STATE AREA!!!

And if it all falls apart and the VIP explodes in your face, well you're still part of the winning team. Rodney and I sabotage each other all the time, but if LOVEMUFFIN wins then we both win no matter what we were doing at the time.

So when do we start filming?

Clearasday wrote:Thanks for the extra funding, and let me tell you Doofenshmirtz, I love it, I'm totally in. In fact, forget giving me that money, I'm funding this movie with my own cash. That's how much confidence I have in your acting abilities. I'm putting my own name and house and children on the line. Just this morning I sold my car to a totally legitimate Nigerian business organisation run by some prince that said he would be happy to fund my movie if YOU were in it. He was so excited about it, the great fellow! So this is it, I'm betting everything on this movie being a success. Now I've just got to go work out whether I've got this camera *he brandishes the fingers in a square shape* backwards or upside-down or something. It just seems like it's not filming in the quality I want it to. It's still fucking amazing quality, it's just not quite there. Great, but lacking. Lacking, but great.

As to the voting, I would have voted with you but the unaligned has voted against you unfortunately, and I've been told by my producers (who had noticed my stark lack of support today) that if I vote them out of this race and you in, it'll still be a draw and they'll make sure I never see the VIP ever again. Also I was told by Ahab that he was pretty close to you guys over the other side, so I can imagine you also made a similiar deal with him to send the Whale over this round. Is there truth to that thought? While that's an absolutely brilliant and all round marvellous plan, I can't help but feel it would leave my movie out in the great, but somewhat cold, cold.

New working title:

A PLATYPUS TOO FAR?
A film noir opera starring Hellheart as Hellheart and Mister E. Meat as That PJ

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Re: Time Minus Zero

Postby sphenodont » 21 Jul 2014, 06:23:48

Thanks for the game, Rave! My only comment (and something you already picked up on), is that I think the wife/mistress pair should have been left unaligned. Otherwise, you end up with only one pair of free agents, both of whom ultimately want to ally with the red team (so that they can help in positioning the bomb). The wife/mistress naturally want to seek out blue, so that would balance out.

I'm a bit bummed that I didn't get to wipe Ahab off the face of the planet, but all the shuffling in the earlier days just fell to a stand still the last day or so (for me), in large part because Ozy dropped out (and because no one else on red was really forthcoming). We'll just have to kill each other another day.

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Re: Time Minus Zero

Postby Clearasday » 21 Jul 2014, 06:31:33

I loved your RP Hellheart. When things got a bit too silent in the main thread I just sent a PM your way and knew there would be a response. I liked the Ode you sent to me on day 1 in particular. Also the fact that you were so blatantly RPing your role without bothering to try to hide it was a source of much amusement.
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Re: Time Minus Zero

Postby Aldax » 21 Jul 2014, 06:55:23

Thanks for the game Rave!. Certainly this variant was really interesting :lol:
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Re: Time Minus Zero

Postby RaveBomb » 21 Jul 2014, 08:08:48

Some random thoughts.

1) Getting sick mid way through was not in the plans. I had additional stuff in mind for the main threads that I never had the energy to develop.
2) Not a RaveBomb game without some Drama. I'm sure that Ozy will have some comments, but those are his to make (or not) as he wants. Speaking of Ozy, holy early game mastery batman. Freakin' spider in the middle of a web. Wonderful to watch.
3) Wife/Mistress should have been gray. That was a screw up. Somewhere in my mind they got Red/Blued and so went out that way.
4) If (when!) I do this again, PMs are going to be limited in some fashion. 1/day, shares only, something to bring the conversation to the main threads.
5) Holy Day 1 sharing batman! I expected a little more discretion then a public reveal, followed by mass shares. Next game will have different roles that will screw with that.
6) Thanks for everyone for coming out. This was highly experimental and a whole lot different then what we regularly do. I think everyone had a good time, and even if I posed that "I hate you all", I wouldn't really be here if I did... :D
If our team loses, it's going to be entirely your fault.-rekard
If you still end up losing after this, it's totally not your fault.-Hellheart
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Re: Time Minus Zero

Postby Admetus » 21 Jul 2014, 10:54:14

And HH is right, Admetus. What you 'deserved' was basically being the only force to blame for your loss. :) You played both sides pretty well, but I was serious in one of my last group PMs--your chances to win with Red were gone. It was down to us or nothing. But I'm sure you had fun with it, which is the important part. I'm not too worried about the betrayal, either. It happens in these games all the time. I just keep updating my log of who is trustworthy and who is not for the long game.

I'm not sure you're being entirely fair here. As an unaligned player, one side was going to have to get more of my cooperation than the other. I tried to walk the middle road as long as possible, but of course the nature of the role means I could either not play or there would be some side that considered itself betrayed. When criticizing my last choice, you're assuming a whole lot for a person who never left East to be aware of the political situation in West, among other things. As far as I was concerned, I followed your plan until it had failed, and when it wasn't a question of which team was going to win, I made the next best play to attempt to salvage my own victory.

And in the end, I know it hurts a bit to lose when hindsight suggests there could have been a way to win, but would you honestly value that victory? Where your opponent has outmaneuvered you, but you suck out because someone didn't show up to play?

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Re: Time Minus Zero

Postby rekard » 21 Jul 2014, 11:26:38

Uhm. I wouldn't say we outmaneuvered Blue, but more like Blue handed us the victory with that kangaroo jump.

Also, I noticed in that quote of PJ saying who is trustworthy and who is not. It's all in the point of view. From my side, Admetus was loyal and trustworthy. He knew I was the Red Bomber from day 1 and didn't tell you. I will dare say that Red had an alliance with Admetus first. The fact that blue didn't know for until the last day speaks volumes. I don't think you could call Admetus a betrayer if he wasn't really an ally with Blue in the first place.

I considered Admetus a sort of middleman with a goal in common. I didn't talk all my details with him because certain things should be maintained in secret. But I knew by telling him who I was it would help Admetus being more red than not. I like to think I built an early bold bridge of trust at the start that would also be very costly for Admetus to burn.

Moreso, in TWG, always distrust people. Specially those unaligned or psychopathic. Those that you think are reliable, will not be in a future game. This game is about truth and deception. If you have to talk privately to have an alliance, what guarantees you he isn't talking with others? You can talk about deals all you want, but don't hand the reigns to the unaligned. Let them go to you,don't go to them.

I would had been frustrated if we had lost because Ryvvn had failed to show up. Admetus did something that was inevitable, and yeah, to lose because a player doesn't show up would have been ugly cheap.

In the end, I consider Admetus not a betrayer. Just a fair negotiator who knew the real outcome that should have happened.

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Re: Time Minus Zero

Postby That PJ » 21 Jul 2014, 12:36:30

Admetus wrote:And in the end, I know it hurts a bit to lose when hindsight suggests there could have been a way to win, but would you honestly value that victory? Where your opponent has outmaneuvered you, but you suck out because someone didn't show up to play?

I hope the irony of that statement is not lost on you.
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Then he went and shot himself, saved me and got himself lynched because of it. You magnificent fool! -Mister E. Meat

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Re: Time Minus Zero

Postby Admetus » 21 Jul 2014, 12:39:51

It is lost on me. Sorry!

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Re: Time Minus Zero

Postby Snake » 21 Jul 2014, 12:44:05

He's referring to the mia blue member.

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Re: Time Minus Zero

Postby Admetus » 21 Jul 2014, 12:57:12

Oh, sorry, I thought it was a statement pointed at me. I guess I'm being too defensive, let me attempt to gracefully bow out before I embarrass myself further.

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Re: Time Minus Zero

Postby dferrantino » 21 Jul 2014, 12:57:39

Thoughts:

1) Good game Rave, had a bunch of fun once I figured out what was going on.
2) As with every PM game: holy fuck Ozy. Rave, you've been around long enough to remember why we started banning PMs in the first place. Did you expect him to do anything but exactly what he did? Dude's a monster when he's allowed free comms over private channels.
3) Also, as with every PM game: was way too quiet in the public channels. I think everyone has hit the nail on the head with this one in that there was little to no reason to have public conversations. I attempted to bring the chatter back to the thread with my refusal to respond to PMs, but even that didn't last long once Ozy and I called each others' bluffs.
4) I am, in general, not a fan of any game that allows people to switch teams. Logically, it means the swapped player should now be playing for their new team and breaking ties with the old, but more often than not they use themselves as a martyr. I know Meta4's situation was due far more to lack of time and inattentiveness than it was to wanting to see Blue win, but from the swap on I felt Red was essentially playing a man down. Had Ozy not bowed out we would have been in extraordinarily bad shape.

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Re: Time Minus Zero

Postby Ryvvn » 21 Jul 2014, 15:00:32

rekard wrote:I would had been frustrated if we had lost because Ryvvn had failed to show up. Admetus did something that was inevitable, and yeah, to lose because a player doesn't show up would have been ugly cheap.

In case my apology above was lost amid the Admetus argument, I'll requote the relevant part of that longer post here:

Ryvvn wrote:So sorry to my teammates for my absence during what would have been a pivotal moment! If not for Admetus giving red the win, my inattentiveness would have cost us the game. This was a bad week for me to have been playing a game at all, but I still tried to put forth the best effort I could, which ultimately led to a lot of confusion on my part and almost costing my team the game at the end. As much as I want to try to take part in every game that takes place here, perhaps I should rethink my involvement in the future when I know I have major life distractions happening at the same time.

I'd also like to requote this from the original signup thread:

Subject: TWG LXXI - Two Rooms and a Boom wrote:
Ryvvn wrote:So very much in!

(though, just stating up front, I will have limited involvement Tuesday while on a trip to Hershey Park with a friend, and also on Thursday when my mother is having heart surgery.)

The latter of which had been a major source of worry, stress, and distraction during the course of this game.
(thankfully her surgery went fine)

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Joined: 25 Jul 2013, 13:43:55
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Location: Philadelphia, PA

Re: Time Minus Zero

Postby Admetus » 21 Jul 2014, 15:21:50

I'm seriously glad to hear that the surgery went fine. Those can be scary.


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