The autopsy begins.

You are barely recognizable.
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Re: The autopsy begins.

Postby rekard » 17 Dec 2014, 18:47:09

Admetus is claiming San's role. I guess we will see who ICB believes.

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Re: The autopsy begins.

Postby Okaros » 17 Dec 2014, 19:15:18

rekard wrote:Admetus is claiming San's role. I guess we will see who ICB believes.


Oh man, that's (probably) a brilliant move by Admetus.
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Re: The autopsy begins.

Postby rekard » 17 Dec 2014, 19:16:55

And ICB doesn't fall for it. Lol

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Re: The autopsy begins.

Postby Okaros » 17 Dec 2014, 19:18:58

This is great! Time to break out the popcorn! *nomnomnom*

Edit: And San shows up early to counter-claim! Delicious! Now, does ICB pull the trigger on Admetus now or not.... :twisted:
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Re: The autopsy begins.

Postby Mister E. Meat » 18 Dec 2014, 08:27:04

Admetus wrote:Okaaaay. Well, that makes it a hell of a lot easier for me.

Since San has to be the wolf in my room, that means DOM is also a wolf, because otherwise a count of one (San) means the wolf that did last night's maul left the room (DOM).


-edit-
And if ICB is not a wolf, then Wasabi must also be a wolf.

Looking at the chart, that accounts for the last four mauls. Then (going backwards to Day 3), we're looking at a shapeshifter (likely Zark or RaveBomb), or else CAD. (Not CAD, all wolves accounted for.)

That makes 2 out of 3 wolves (edit) 3 out of 3 locked. San, DOM, Wasabi

I'll vote Lynch Wasabi.


So, this is a huge wolf tell. You have someone counter-claiming your role, you're saying he's lying and must be a wolf. Then you go an vote for him of course someone completely different. Why would you do this?

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Re: The autopsy begins.

Postby Okaros » 18 Dec 2014, 08:51:18

Mister E. Meat wrote:So, this is a huge wolf tell. You have someone counter-claiming your role, you're saying he's lying and must be a wolf. Then you go an vote for him of course someone completely different. Why would you do this?


Well, you would do if that you were trying to get San vigged, since why waste the lynch vote on someone who's about to die?

But Admetus isn't doing *that* either, because San flipping human will reveal his monstrous secret. :twisted:
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Re: The autopsy begins.

Postby Snake » 18 Dec 2014, 09:30:52

How is it not obviously Admetus when San immediately voted for him and Admetus didn't.

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Re: The autopsy begins.

Postby rekard » 18 Dec 2014, 09:35:13

Hah. Clear can really get on fire when he's actually active.

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Re: The autopsy begins.

Postby Snake » 18 Dec 2014, 09:39:16

He literally just finished all his exams :alt_lol:

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Re: The autopsy begins.

Postby Okaros » 18 Dec 2014, 09:39:38

rekard wrote:Hah. Clear can really get on fire when he's actually active.


Yeah, I've missed seeing active-CAD. And while I'm delighted that he's returned, I'm sad it's in a game where I've been dead since Night One. :cry:
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Re: The autopsy begins.

Postby rekard » 18 Dec 2014, 10:53:57

Hmmm. I hadn't thought of the tiebreaker being used for the vigilante shot. Should I allow it? The original ruling was meant for the votes.

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Re: The autopsy begins.

Postby Okaros » 18 Dec 2014, 12:26:33

Looking over the original wording, it's definitely unclear on whether the power would apply to the vig shot tied vote situation. I guess it boils down to whether you want to let Admetus have control over that vig shot or not. Either way, I'd suggest giving Admetus clarification on whether his tiebreaker works for controlling the vig sooner rather than later since he's got an EOD strategy that depends on it.

Personally I'd lean a little more towards "no": The overall theme of the wolf powers has been more towards influencing/avoiding/manipulating the lynch. This would be the only power of theirs to interact with vig shots in any way (Lucifer's powers are lynch reactions, Shapeshifter's body-switch is a lynch reaction, Jekyl/Hyde murdering people is a lynch reaction, Junko is a lynch vote manipulation, Werewolf doesn't interact with deaths at all and is purely movement-limiting)..
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Re: The autopsy begins.

Postby rekard » 18 Dec 2014, 12:53:25

I like people doing the calculations though Junko was there to avoid making things predictable. Oh well. Should I have given the wolves the maul anywhere skill as a team skill? I wonder.

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Re: The autopsy begins.

Postby Okaros » 18 Dec 2014, 13:16:18

Man, ICB has it solved atm except it's Admetus instead of San. :flail:



Making Junko's maul-anywhere power a team power instead of a personal power would have been helpful in adding to the randomness this game, but I actually really liked the fact that the humans could counteract that by lynching her prior to it being used. Had we not gotten her straightaway it would've added a nice "use it or risk losing it" aspect to it.

Something that might've helped is calling out/reminding the wolves at start how predictable their mauls were likely to be (as well as how important Junko would be to assisting with that). The wolves had lots of ability to steer the lynch and room evictions, had they been planning for it ahead of time I think they could have had a lot more wiggle room today even without Junko's power being available.

Another possibility with Junko's power: Make it automatically activate for the following day if she's lynched before it gets used, and let the humans know this. That way they know which maul didn't have to abide by the rules, but the wolves have the option to fake them out and maul according to the rules anyway.
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Re: The autopsy begins.

Postby That PJ » 18 Dec 2014, 16:20:45

Yeah, the humans are soooo close it's making my heart hurt for them. They're going to get sniped just because ICB won't move to Admetus. They could have two wolves tonight but instead they'll likely lose the game.

Heart-wrenching.
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Re: The autopsy begins.

Postby Snake » 18 Dec 2014, 16:21:00

CAD has it solved now, but will his strange tone prevent people from bringing it home?

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Re: The autopsy begins.

Postby Snake » 18 Dec 2014, 16:21:30

That PJ wrote:Yeah, the humans are soooo close it's making my heart hurt for them. They're going to get sniped just because ICB won't move to Admetus. They could have two wolves tonight but instead they'll likely lose the game.

Heart-wrenching.


CAD's vote essentially counts for 2 though.

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Re: The autopsy begins.

Postby That PJ » 18 Dec 2014, 16:35:22

Snake wrote:
That PJ wrote:Yeah, the humans are soooo close it's making my heart hurt for them. They're going to get sniped just because ICB won't move to Admetus. They could have two wolves tonight but instead they'll likely lose the game.

Heart-wrenching.


CAD's vote essentially counts for 2 though.

Yeah, but it won't be enough with Aldax inactive. Cad (x2) and San on Admetus, all the wolves piled on San, and Admetus makes the tiebreaker. Game over.
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Re: The autopsy begins.

Postby That PJ » 18 Dec 2014, 16:39:57

Just realized I forgot about dferr. I wonder if he's missing or lying in wait.
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Re: The autopsy begins.

Postby Okaros » 18 Dec 2014, 17:01:53

That PJ wrote:Just realized I forgot about dferr. I wonder if he's missing or lying in wait.


Could be either one. Hard to know when he's IRL busy, lying low to see how things unfold, or contemplating last-minute shenanigans. What's interesting is that everyone *else* seems to have forgotten about him in the discussion as well. :lol:
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Re: The autopsy begins.

Postby rekard » 18 Dec 2014, 17:12:19

Clear is doubling his vote today.

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Re: The autopsy begins.

Postby Okaros » 18 Dec 2014, 17:20:38

Received your message rekard. Trying to think of any questions I have.

For clarification on a few things:

Lynch doesn't affect the vote tally for the vig shot firing, correct?
If the primary target of the vig shot is dead because of lynch or maul, does the secondary target get hit or does it fail completely?
Does Admetus have to explicitly activate his tiebreak power? (I think "no", but while I'm asking...)
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Re: The autopsy begins.

Postby Okaros » 18 Dec 2014, 17:55:13

Got my answers from rekard.

ICB sends his regards via PM:

Iron Clad Burrito wrote:I can't help but believe CAD is human, and sincere, in his conversation. A wolfy CAD would have no qualms with a wolf batch that doesn't include him in the first place, esp since it would totally lead to a win. Dragging it out would do nothing.

On the other hand, I'm a little salty that he doesn't appear to have read the first word of any of my posts.

For anyone following along, in case the loss of the laser hasn't been explained:
Admetus votes Wasabi
I vote Wasabi
San votes Admetus

Admetus's lynch immediately means I have full control of the laser, because Admetus is dead and San has no target. But the laser fires after the maul, which I expect is me since everyone agrees that I'm cleared.

CAD wants a sheep, he gets a sheep. I hope he can lead them through the rest of the game. :)


The laser doesn't work quite like ICB expects, but that's okay. ;)

Random.org has decreed that, in the event of a 3-way vig shot tie, the person whose name starts with the letter closest to the end of the alphabet shall die
In the event of a coinflip for some reason, the one closest to the beginning shall die (1 out of 2 won 2 flips out of 3).

Lynch/maul does /not/ affect the vote tally for the laser, merely who's considered an eligible target (thus ICB is half-right).
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Re: The autopsy begins.

Postby That PJ » 18 Dec 2014, 18:04:29

Okaros wrote:Lynch/maul does /not/ affect the vote tally for the laser, merely who's considered an eligible target (thus ICB is half-right).

...That isn't what I got out of rekard's clarification in the wolf thread. His analysis seems correct, except for the part where he forgets that if there's no wolf in the room, he doesn't get mauled.
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Re: The autopsy begins.

Postby Okaros » 18 Dec 2014, 18:07:27

Moot point anyway, since ICB lives (much to his surprise, I'm sure).

Edit: Well, not entirely moot, but I asked rekard for explicit clarification re: the vig shot:
"Votes for the vog shot count regardless of any of the voters lynch."
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Re: The autopsy begins.

Postby rekard » 18 Dec 2014, 18:13:12

So of both Wasabi and Admetus die, WOG Aldax. Make him die in the middle of flying from the rooms. User any monster you can think of. Slender man, trolls, helkraiser, Jason or all. Don't know

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Re: The autopsy begins.

Postby Okaros » 18 Dec 2014, 18:15:35

Admetus (lynch), dferr (maul), Aldax (WoG), and Wasbi (vig) will be the ones joining us today by my count.

I shall craft something for Aldax accordingly. ;)

I'll post a draft of the day-post here for review, then go kill people off and close the rooms, then post the day thread. Should give a decent chunk of time for commentary/revision if desired.
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Re: The autopsy begins.

Postby Okaros » 18 Dec 2014, 18:45:56

How's this look?

I'll come along for an editing pass after I'm done killing people and closing rooms.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
<posted as Day 8's opening post already>
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
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Re: The autopsy begins.

Postby rekard » 18 Dec 2014, 18:49:41

Instead of milk truck use milk space ship and you're golden.

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Re: The autopsy begins.

Postby Okaros » 18 Dec 2014, 18:51:28

VIP and Gift Shop have been emptied out.
Aldax, Admetus, dferr, and Wasabi have all been pulled from their groups and added to the dead.

Welcome everyone! Taking a final edit pass on that day thread post before I create new threads for Day/Night 8.


Fake edit: Space ship, of course. *smacks forehead* Edited in the final draft version.

Edit2: How about "flying milk saucer" ? ;)
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Re: The autopsy begins.

Postby That PJ » 18 Dec 2014, 18:51:46

I would clarify that the 'vig'd by deathray' is indeed the Gift Shop death ray, but otherwise looks good from my unenlightened perspective.
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Re: The autopsy begins.

Postby rekard » 18 Dec 2014, 18:53:41

I'm on phone but I just realized its 1 wolf vs 3 humans. Last day no matter what.

Flying milk saucer sounds too kinky.

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Re: The autopsy begins.

Postby Okaros » 18 Dec 2014, 19:06:14

Threads created, so all done. Went with the spaceship rather than the bad saucer pun.

As always, feel free to edit/tweak anything as you like rekard.
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Re: The autopsy begins.

Postby rekard » 18 Dec 2014, 19:17:33

Either I'm doing things wrong or right when both factions think the game has been unfair to them.

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Re: The autopsy begins.

Postby Okaros » 18 Dec 2014, 19:18:24

rekard wrote:Either I'm doing things wrong or right when both factions think the game has been unfair to them.


Probably a bit of both, for complicated games like this.
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Re: The autopsy begins.

Postby Okaros » 18 Dec 2014, 21:07:22

Okaros wrote:Moot point anyway, since ICB lives (much to his surprise, I'm sure).

Edit: Well, not entirely moot, but I asked rekard for explicit clarification re: the vig shot:
"Votes for the vog shot count regardless of any of the voters lynch."


Just to close the loop for the sake of my brain here:
It really is moot, because of the way random.org tumbled.

Either:
a) lynched people's votes count and the target is selected first, in which case it's a 3-way tie to see who the primary target is and Wasabi dies via random.org declaring the last one alphabetically would die.
or
b) targeting votes aren't tallied until the shot actually fires, in which case Admetus doesn't get a vote, San's vote is invalid (because Admetus is dead), and ICB's shot on Wasabi is left as the only valid vote.
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Re: The autopsy begins.

Postby Okaros » 18 Dec 2014, 21:25:54

You know, strictly speaking DOM will still be "alive" even after he's lynched due to his "stay in the game after being lynched" power... I wonder what that will wind up looking like?
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Re: The autopsy begins.

Postby That PJ » 19 Dec 2014, 09:57:00

Oh hey, stumbled across this.

Admetus wrote:A message for dead PJ, since I'm reading through the old Gift Shop boards:
That PJ wrote:For my part, I'm leery of Admetus calling for a hunt on me, knowing what I know.

What? Is this all that you were on about? Jeez, that's not even close to me calling a hunt on you, if you're referring to that time where I said the no-maul could have been one of us being a lone wolf. That's just a curiosity. I even said, the most likely scenario by far would be that the narration told us exactly what happened. If I call a hunt on someone, you would probably expect me to at least vote on you!

And if you're not dead yet because you're controlling Cicero -- What is up with that? Did we get someone else's seer information or something?

It wasn't an aggressive call, but it was a very well-reasoned argument about why I was a likely wolf, and why you could be excluded from consideration because you voted for yourself. Since I knew I was human, it looked like an extraordinarily weak argument, and I began to analyze whether a wolf would nominate himself to leave the initial room (since that was your argument for exclusion--predicated on lone wolf status, I know, but still). It seemed completely plausible that a wolf might choose to leave in order to be present in other rooms.

Too bad I talked myself out of you-as-wolf by thinking 'Naw, that logic would just turn around and bite him when I flipped human, which he'd know as a wolf.' :) You were actually my first Seer target (as Cicero) for some of the same reasons, before I switched to Ryvvn.

It also seemed pretty obvious from flavor text that it was a special block, not a 'no wolf' situation, so I was perplexed why you even pursued that train of thought. Cumulative points of suspicion, and at Day 3 with no insight to Day 1 discussions, you were among my biggest suspicion. *shrug*

I think my role description for Cicero was fairly clear about them being independent. Let me find it...
rekard wrote:You're human.

You're a descendant of the hunter family of the Van Helsings. PJ Van Helsing!

You got no powers perse but you have an assistant robot named Cicero. He'll be managed through a masked account and will count as human and has a vote. If you die you'll still play as your robot but it won't be revealed Van Helsing had the robot. Likewise if the robot does first.

I didn't get informed about the Seer role until Day 3. I suspect it was randomly assigned and I just got lucky.

I did get told certain things after I died as PJ, mainly that Cicero could no longer refer to the Seer vision at all (fortunately I had already claimed by then). I tried to expand the spirit of that description (memory wipe) by not referring to what I knew from the Gift Shop, too. Which was HARD. I knew that vig shot regenerated. Looking back on the wolf board, things would've been quite different if the Lucifer kill had gone off faster.
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Re: The autopsy begins.

Postby rekard » 19 Dec 2014, 10:18:56

There was an illusion typo there. You got the vision because both of your characters made it to day 3.

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Re: The autopsy begins.

Postby That PJ » 19 Dec 2014, 11:11:16

rekard wrote:There was an illusion typo there. You got the vision because both of your characters made it to day 3.

Ah! So the masked account and one-time seer were linked. Got it.
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Re: The autopsy begins.

Postby That PJ » 19 Dec 2014, 11:13:19

rekard wrote:Who will win this war of acronyms? Present your arguments. Also Lucifer is the last one so even if humans win two of the humans will suffer horrible deaths with the survivor scarred. If Lucifer wins, everyone will suffer a fate worse than death.

Two? The maul still happens even when the last wolf is lynched?
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Re: The autopsy begins.

Postby rekard » 19 Dec 2014, 11:18:50

Humans still win.

But Lucifer is a cheating bastard.

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Re: The autopsy begins.

Postby That PJ » 19 Dec 2014, 11:28:20

lol, fair enough
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Re: The autopsy begins.

Postby Admetus » 19 Dec 2014, 13:17:52

MEM wrote:So, this is a huge wolf tell. You have someone counter-claiming your role, you're saying he's lying and must be a wolf. Then you go an vote for him of course someone completely different. Why would you do this?

It's complicated?

I was working through the logic and I could prove that Wasabi was a wolf. I "knew" San was a wolf. (Shortly after that I could prove DOM was also a wolf. But at the time Wasabi was the other one.) So, no, I didn't say "here's a wolf, let me vote for this other guy." I in fact did vote for a wolf.

Why Wasabi and not San? That was a mistake as it turns out later, I would have been better served by starting San. The reason was because I expected to get votes lined up against both San and Wasabi, and I thought it would be better if I was on Wasabi and able to switch to San to help seal the deal. I knew I was dead the next day if it went that far. If Wasabi had been the lynch target and San the laser target, we could have won the game by swapping my lynch vote to San to make them the same target.

But all of it was rooted in overconfidence that humans would go with the best case scenario because they felt like they were losing. I believe I sold it well, but then pushed too hard when I didn't accept CAD's compromise of killing us both. That was the obvious "cut your losses" point where, when I didn't, I started looking super wolfy.

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Re: The autopsy begins.

Postby Admetus » 19 Dec 2014, 13:41:52

Also, I knew it was the dead thread blocking my fun plays. Jerks! :P

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Re: The autopsy begins.

Postby Ryvvn » 19 Dec 2014, 13:57:08

PJ, I think my biggest complaint regarding your two roles wasn't that they were independent but that rekard's wording to Admetus' seering of you implied that Helsing (not just PJ the player) explicitly controlled Cicero, and so all Lucifer related decisions made that day were done so with that in mind, that we'd at least take out a confirmed human in Cicero and also Helsing along with my lynch.

Ambiguity of powers, unless understood to be secret, harms the game in my opinion.

(note: I'm not still complaining about this game, just wanted to clarify for PJ)

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Re: The autopsy begins.

Postby Okaros » 19 Dec 2014, 16:57:34

If San no-shows today, can the game in a technical human win but really a loss for everyone? That would seem to be fairly appropriate. ;)
I kind of assume Okaros is out to backstab me until proven otherwise. - DOM

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Re: The autopsy begins.

Postby That PJ » 19 Dec 2014, 18:33:41

Okaros wrote:If San no-shows today, can the game in a technical human win but really a loss for everyone? That would seem to be fairly appropriate. ;)

That is the most I have ever seen San write. I hope he gets to be the last man standing.
PJ's general resignation towards fate is good enough. -Okaros
Then he went and shot himself, saved me and got himself lynched because of it. You magnificent fool! -Mister E. Meat

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Re: The autopsy begins.

Postby Admetus » 19 Dec 2014, 20:35:39

I think the Day forum is still locked up for us Dead people.

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Re: The autopsy begins.

Postby Okaros » 19 Dec 2014, 21:14:33

Admetus wrote:I think the Day forum is still locked up for us Dead people.


The Dead should be able to post to the Hall now. I just tweaked the Dead permissions there, as it's late and I'm too tired to look up the proper procedure for opening access to everyone. :)
I kind of assume Okaros is out to backstab me until proven otherwise. - DOM


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