It's just so grey....

The doors of Heaven will be opening up any second now. Any second.
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It's just so grey....

Postby necklessone » 02 Mar 2015, 05:44:52

Welcome to the discussion of the dead.

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Re: It's just so grey....

Postby necklessone » 02 Mar 2015, 07:45:38

So the only secret to this game is that it doesn't really begin until Day 2. The person voted out on Day 1 was given the chance to shape the enemy team and the game to their desires.

The idea for the game started during my Cabin in the Woods game; there was some discussion about how to handle the "basement scene", where the protagonists choose their enemy. This idea came to me during that game and I wanted to try a variant of it here.

I also wanted to play with the seer a little bit. This game will either have no seer or a seer with a known flaw.

Other than that, just standard Wolf Game.

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Re: It's just so grey....

Postby necklessone » 02 Mar 2015, 07:46:15

7-zark-7 wrote:Subject: Day 1: The First Sunday

necklessone wrote:The good Reverend Nicholas Lesson has always had a flair for the dramatic.


Nice one. Took me a second before my morning caffeine.

Thoughts for the dead (emphasis mine below)

necklessone wrote:"In this future, the Devil himself came to our town and the lake itself boiled and steamed."
<<snip>>
"The Devil himself," Rev. Lesson repeated, punctuating with another smack of the pulpit. "Each of us was following him into hell and the good Lord could only watch because WE..." Smack! "WERE" Smack! "WARNED!"
<<snip>>
The Devil will only come because one of YOU!" He sweeps his bloody hand to gesture towards the congregation. "One among you has a heart full of poison and will bring down all of our hard work in opposition to all that is good and just. This the Lord told me. And he told me how to find the evildoer and save us all."
<<snip>>
Bring me the devil spawn. Save us all."


so... If you had not expressly said "no conversions" in the signup thread, I would read this as a conversion game. Curious if this is pure flavor, or if there is some subtly that's eluding me. Did I mention I haven't had my morning caffeine?

More in a bit,

7z7

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Re: It's just so grey....

Postby necklessone » 03 Mar 2015, 05:59:38

Iron Clad Burrito wrote:
necklessone wrote:Pretty much. Even if he's an enemy, you love him and can't stand to be parted.


[Musing for the dead] He's a wolf. This has happened before. CAD did it to us. This. Exact. Scenario.

But this time we don't have PMs so we can't blow this shit up and fuck everything. (Hi, Clearasday!)

So I'll play like he's human.

[For neckless] Out of curiosity, why Day 2? Given it's vanilla-ish, I wouldn't think I triggered it.

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Re: It's just so grey....

Postby necklessone » 03 Mar 2015, 06:07:42

In the light of morning, I'm regretting the Lovers.

Since Day 1 was really about selecting the spiritual Big Bad, I've been looking at this as a 19 player game (Pompey doesn't count, really) that has a delayed start. That put me between 4-5 wolves, so I decided to split the difference and make an extra wolf the trade-off for a seer. In theory, that still gives the humans 5 mislynches which, honestly, should be plenty.

But since we're at an odd number, if either of the extra death powers (vig/lovers) triggers, that brings them down to a four error window. The vig is an acceptable risk since it's a deliberate choice on the part of one of the players. Still not so sure about the lovers.

I still think the game is reasonably balanced; it's still primarily vanilla. It's just not quite where I would like it and I didn't leave myself that many tools to course correct.

That all being said, I'm sure ICB and RaveBomb will survive to the end and embrace fondly over a pile of rotting chicken corpses.

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Re: It's just so grey....

Postby necklessone » 03 Mar 2015, 06:13:10

Admetus is looking at Cabin in the Woods monsters. Did he connect the delay in role assignments to a choosing?

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Re: It's just so grey....

Postby necklessone » 03 Mar 2015, 12:19:11

Okaros wrote:Pompey seems to still be listed in the "Living Players" section of the player roster. An oversight, perhaps? Or do we need to go lynch a newly-risen demonic overlord?


Pretty close, sir.

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Re: It's just so grey....

Postby necklessone » 03 Mar 2015, 18:53:51

Ryvvn loses the toss.

Welcome Ryvvn and 7z7! Still a few things to do before EoD.

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Re: It's just so grey....

Postby necklessone » 03 Mar 2015, 18:55:10

Iron Clad Burrito wrote:Subject: Day 2: The Second Sunday

RaveBomb wrote:Oh! Special Roles! Hey ICB, you remember that time we were HORRIBLE wolves and tried to throw our wolf buddies under the bus to engineer a lover's victory, before we were burned?

Wouldn't it be hilarious if that happened again? I need to go read my PMs.

Dammit. neckless couldn't even give us that.


So if we don't get mauled tonight, I know Ravebomb is a wolf and I will never get mauled. Which is a plus. Rave will need to work extra hard to appear human.

Dear current lover and future-doomed-to-hell-with-me Ravebomb:

I didn't realize the telegraph was still in fashion in Nunavut, or Saskatchewan (I forget which province). But if we willan have live past day 4, the humans are probably fucked because no one else figured it out.

Also: Hi, future dead rekard! I still hold the fondest of memories over that game. <3


Crassus wrote:Hah, the paranoia is a bit real this game. I'm currently 2 votes back from the lead, but what if there are lots of liars? I could be winning this vote already.

I choose to sit on it, today, though. I'll check later to make sure, but if I die Day 2 because of "Too Many Liars," well I can live with that. ;)

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Re: It's just so grey....

Postby necklessone » 04 Mar 2015, 09:24:34

Crassus wrote:No overt evidence of vote manipulation. I guess that makes the many-many-liars possibility unlikely. Are there enemy liars, or only friendly ones? It seems less likely that Blindsniper is an enemy with enemy liar friends, so if enemy liars exist, Blindsniper is less likely to be an enemy.

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Re: It's just so grey....

Postby 7-zark-7 » 04 Mar 2015, 15:18:46

It's quiet in here... too quiet.

And oddly, I find myself craving chicken.

More in a bit,

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"The possibility that it's Zark simply murdering someone at a whim each day... would be delightful if true, but I worry that that's too simple a solution." - Okaros

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Re: It's just so grey....

Postby necklessone » 04 Mar 2015, 17:02:17

Looks like we'll have a bunch of new people in tonight. It's a power clusterfuck over the lovers. Wolves are eating Rave. Smirker is seering Rave->ICB. Visigoth is GAing ICB.

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Re: It's just so grey....

Postby 7-zark-7 » 04 Mar 2015, 18:05:56

Image

company would be nice...

More in a bit,

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Last edited by 7-zark-7 on 04 Mar 2015, 18:07:09, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: It's just so grey....

Postby necklessone » 04 Mar 2015, 18:07:03

Welcome to the dead, folks. Taste the happy!

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Re: It's just so grey....

Postby Iron Clad Burrito » 04 Mar 2015, 18:35:24

Aaaaaaaaaand I got it all wrong.

I was sure the chekov character was going to be the vigilante, too, in another fit of divine justice.

I guess I'm still on rekard's shit list since he didn't actually get to maul me. :)

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Re: It's just so grey....

Postby Iron Clad Burrito » 04 Mar 2015, 18:38:43

necklessone wrote:Looks like we'll have a bunch of new people in tonight. It's a power clusterfuck over the lovers. Wolves are eating Rave. Smirker is seering Rave->ICB. Visigoth is GAing ICB.


Ain't that some shit.

YOU WANT THE LOVERS
YOU WANT THE LOVERS
EVERY
BODY
WANTS
THE
LOOOVVVVEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRSSSSSSSSSSS

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Re: It's just so grey....

Postby 7-zark-7 » 04 Mar 2015, 19:25:11

Iron Clad Burrito wrote:I guess I'm still on rekard's shit list since he didn't actually get to maul me. :)


Anytime I am ever mauled early, Rekard is a wolf. (Too early to add to my signature line?)

More in a bit,

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Re: It's just so grey....

Postby Meta4 » 04 Mar 2015, 19:48:02

I had to work later than anticipated tonight and I kept thinking "please don't be EOD, please don't be EOD, please don't be EOD". I guess it didn't matter in the end, but hey, at least I made it to day three! :D
"...it continues to be a bad idea to give in to the urge to lynch Meta4." -Admetus

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Re: It's just so grey....

Postby RaveBomb » 05 Mar 2015, 07:57:37

I need to learn how to shut the fuck up. :lol: :lol: :lol:

That said, I suspect that even without the lovers thing, I was going to be quick to the chop with the Rekard hitlist.
If our team loses, it's going to be entirely your fault.-rekard
If you still end up losing after this, it's totally not your fault.-Hellheart
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Re: It's just so grey....

Postby 7-zark-7 » 05 Mar 2015, 08:46:53

RaveBomb wrote:I need to learn how to shut the fuck up


If it helps any, I've been working on that one for a ~long time~ no progress yet, but I'm hopeful by 2050.

More in a bit,

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Re: It's just so grey....

Postby necklessone » 05 Mar 2015, 19:46:09

Welcome to rekard and Okaros. Sorry for the delay.

Powers:
Seer seers GA, GA protects Seer.
Rekard +1s his vote, Crassus -1s his total.

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Re: It's just so grey....

Postby necklessone » 05 Mar 2015, 19:51:43

Crassus wrote:Liar powers activate! Form of: a -1 vote on self!

You know, I had figured I'd use +1 to my vote, because -1 basically advertises I'm a Liar. But if the vote kills me, it's the same either way. If the vote kills rekard and he's not a wolf, we lose anyways as I get buried in backlash. If the vote kills rekard and he's a wolf, I'll probably be safe from the town and will want the +1 vote for wolf killing.


Okaros wrote:My guesses at the masked players:

Crassus - Admetus
Caesar - sphenodont
Cato - San


That PJ wrote:No reply necessary, just something for the Dead to laugh about.

I didn't see enough of Pompey to guess who he was. Haven't really made any concerted thought about the others, either, until today's exchange with Crassus. My guess is Admetus.

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Re: It's just so grey....

Postby Okaros » 05 Mar 2015, 19:53:38

rekarrrrrrrd! *shakes fist*



Heh. The twist is actually something I'd wondered about, neckless, though not to quite that degree.
I kind of assume Okaros is out to backstab me until proven otherwise. - DOM

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Re: It's just so grey....

Postby 7-zark-7 » 05 Mar 2015, 19:58:21

Image

More in a bit,

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Re: It's just so grey....

Postby rekard » 05 Mar 2015, 21:18:44

Vengeaaaaaaaaance! Tell me please that Pompey is sphenodont.

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Re: It's just so grey....

Postby Okaros » 06 Mar 2015, 06:46:26

Having rekard be the first wolf to go when the team is chicken-themed really is fitting.

You're not a man, you're a chicken Boo!

That continues to be my favorite avatar of yours, rekard. :)
I kind of assume Okaros is out to backstab me until proven otherwise. - DOM

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Re: It's just so grey....

Postby rekard » 06 Mar 2015, 07:21:24

I can officially declare that my thirst for retribution has been satiated. I won't bug GMs for vigilante role anymore. The hit list has been emptied. In one single Machiavellian game.

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Re: It's just so grey....

Postby RaveBomb » 06 Mar 2015, 09:37:40

One list empties... one list fills... 8-)
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Re: It's just so grey....

Postby necklessone » 06 Mar 2015, 16:00:18

Caesar wrote:The miller is not supposed to know he's a miller. It just adds one more confirmed human. And that's exactly the opposite of what the miller is supposed to do.


I absolutely agree and that is totally my fuck up.

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Re: It's just so grey....

Postby Okaros » 06 Mar 2015, 16:40:32

Well, one mistake serves to somewhat offset the other (Lovers w/ the player total where it was) I guess. :)

These things happen. Que sera sera.
I kind of assume Okaros is out to backstab me until proven otherwise. - DOM

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Re: It's just so grey....

Postby Iron Clad Burrito » 06 Mar 2015, 16:44:28

necklessone wrote:
Caesar wrote:The miller is not supposed to know he's a miller. It just adds one more confirmed human. And that's exactly the opposite of what the miller is supposed to do.


I absolutely agree and that is totally my fuck up.


As said above, offset by the lovers, so it all washes out.

In the end, the lovers could have worked if they were on opposite teams. At the least, assuming a successful maul, it wouldn't have advanced the lynch-or-lose timer that way.

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Re: It's just so grey....

Postby necklessone » 06 Mar 2015, 18:39:10

Rictus uses a +1, so the final is a 6:6 tie. Blindsniper loses the flip.

Welcome Smirker and Blindsniper!

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Re: It's just so grey....

Postby necklessone » 06 Mar 2015, 18:43:25

Reveals may jut completely unbalance the game. All but one vanilla human has been killed :flail:.

I really hope this doesn't become a wasted end game.

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Re: It's just so grey....

Postby 7-zark-7 » 06 Mar 2015, 19:37:32

necklessone wrote:Reveals may jut completely unbalance the game. All but one vanilla human has been killed :flail:.

I really hope this doesn't become a wasted end game.


If it goes that way, you know what you have to do... Raise the dead and make us all daytime vigilantes.

More in a bit,

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Re: It's just so grey....

Postby Okaros » 06 Mar 2015, 20:50:02

Something to note, though, is that the number of human specials is a direct result of the choices Pompey made during the setup. :)
I kind of assume Okaros is out to backstab me until proven otherwise. - DOM

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Re: It's just so grey....

Postby necklessone » 06 Mar 2015, 21:07:39

And the fact that the vanillas all died is just bad luck for the most part. Still, it's a failure on my part to have not considered this situation ahead of time.

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Re: It's just so grey....

Postby necklessone » 06 Mar 2015, 21:14:52

The wolves have a few advantages here in that they know the composition of special roles. They need to not role claim against the vig for obvious reasons. They also can't claim the Miller ( :facepalm: ) or GA because the correct human play is to resolve that situation by shooting one of the claimants and then lynching the other if the shot failed.

Maybe claim confusion is the way to go, though. I think they can do something by sticking a wolf in as a third liar; people might buy that there were three humans and one wolf. Smart human play will be to start verifying the liars today, though.

Ugh.

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Re: It's just so grey....

Postby rekard » 06 Mar 2015, 21:28:13

I'm just thankful that I got to do justice in just one game. That's the dream.

Oh yeah Ravebomb. I hadn't suspected of you having a special role. I just wanted revenge firm the lovers game. And you reminding me of that game just increased my motivation and took away any feeling of guilt I may have had.

And when I saw you were lovers with ICB, I saw it as poetic justice. What are the odds ? The scales have been balanced.

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Re: It's just so grey....

Postby necklessone » 08 Mar 2015, 09:38:56

I've been trying to work out how to salvage the end game and I'm still at a loss. I feel really shitty about how this is working our for the wolves through a combination of luck and things I did wrong. There's still some hope this won't end as badly as I fear, but I'm not seeing it.

Though it's not over yet, I've mentally started working on the postmortem. Here are the two things that really stand out.
  • Informing the Miller was so wrong. I'm still not entirely sure why I did it, other than rushing at the beginning of Day 2 to get the game started as soon as possible.
  • The Liars should have had different variants on +1/-1 vote. With them all being the same, it's too easy to vet anyone role claiming as Liar.

The game also just unfolded nearly perfectly to leave the wolves trapped by roleclaims.
  • 8 humans had no role or were Lovers; 7 of them died in the first five days.
  • The only wolf that died was the Liar, giving other people claiming Liar more human cred than they would have otherwise had.

In another world where it's not rekard who dies and say Visigoth dies instead of blindsniper I think the wolves can pull it out. As is, I'm guessing the humans win on Day 9.

Welcome Caesar. Sorry things are how they are.

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Re: It's just so grey....

Postby Caesar » 08 Mar 2015, 16:14:44

Oh well. I do think the Miller was messed up. Also on my lack of participation today, I was looking forward to counterclaiming and adding some drama but then I saw people realise that we could only counterclaim GA (as Liar and Vigilante cannot be counterclaimed) and I kind've gave up. Still fun anyway, looking forward to watching 3 straight bandwagon on wolf days.

edit: I'll explain my point on the miller so I don't seem like so much of a dick. The Miller is put in the game to make the much-hated seer that much weaker. Making him aware that he is a miller does the opposite, it makes him a positive boon to the team.

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Re: It's just so grey....

Postby necklessone » 08 Mar 2015, 17:03:28

You're not being a dick (I've been agreeing with you in the miller in here). That was a fuck up on my end and will up being the final thing to bury the wolves.

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Re: It's just so grey....

Postby Caesar » 08 Mar 2015, 17:30:14

Don't worry, ignore me. The wolves still have a chance. Enough whining from me anyway, I really loved the fake day 1, and the choices for Pompey was something I've never seen before. I love that he got to choose everything right down to an extra wolf, and I think all of the choices were extremely well balanced. It's made me really want another choose your own adventure style game or one where people get to choose other peoples or the ruleset, like here.

And all of the write-ups, especially Mr. Rekard's favourite hat. I just wish I had more time to properly roleplay as Caesar during the early days. And chickens are just always the best theme. Always. Thanks Pompey.

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Re: It's just so grey....

Postby necklessone » 08 Mar 2015, 18:00:39

GA target.... Rictus.

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Re: It's just so grey....

Postby necklessone » 08 Mar 2015, 18:02:43

And welcome Snake!

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Re: It's just so grey....

Postby Snake » 08 Mar 2015, 18:54:19

Yeah, I figure as much.

With that blocked maul we've gone from looking awesome to rubbish. :alt_lol:

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Re: It's just so grey....

Postby Okaros » 09 Mar 2015, 08:38:30

Snake wrote:With that blocked maul we've gone from looking awesome to rubbish. :alt_lol:


Nah, it's the vig shot that really did you guys in. The blocked maul actually had very little effect since the vig shot had already given the humans back the mislynch they needed.

If, say, Omega had piped up and claimed Liar at the same time Rictus and Crassus did I think they'd still have a chance since they might be able to make a case for Crassus being another wolf liar, but I think it's too late to do that now. Cam is really the only mislynch that's an option, and that's no longer enough.

Still, there's a slim hope. Wolves have pulled off bigger conjobs than "Crassus is really a wolf!" in the past, after all.

Edit: And PJ is doing his best to fan the flames of that hope...
I kind of assume Okaros is out to backstab me until proven otherwise. - DOM

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Re: It's just so grey....

Postby necklessone » 09 Mar 2015, 18:04:59

Welcome to Rictus and cam_chase! Now to finish up the new day.

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Re: It's just so grey....

Postby necklessone » 10 Mar 2015, 06:10:53

Funny thing. I just realized Crassus lost the chance to clear himself as a liar.

Actually, no it didn't. You're just lying. Because you're a Liar.

Once per day, you may PM me to make your vote either +1 or votes against you -1. You must alternate which option you choose and cannot change your mind once the power is deployed. You lose this power when there are 6 or less players left.

There are multiple Liars.

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Re: It's just so grey....

Postby necklessone » 10 Mar 2015, 06:14:59

Oh, and Visi protected himself last night, so he's open to a wolfing.

Should be an interesting final day. A wolf, a person who's claimed a power with circumstantial evidence who can't back it up, a person cleared by GM misplay (the clear which people may doubt since it defeats the role to do so), and a spent vig.

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Re: It's just so grey....

Postby necklessone » 10 Mar 2015, 10:55:58

Crassus wrote:People left in game:

Crassus (self)
That PJ (vig)
Mister E. Meat (miller)
Visigoth (human of some kind)
Cato
Omega

The GA role is known to be in the game, so unless there's a problem with a role claim, it must be that Visigoth is the GA. This actually means the wolves knew that, unless they were thinking he might still be Cam, and just learned it today.

That means without a role challenge, Cato and Omega have to be the easily picked-off wolves just by pigeonhole principle.

Complications: Perhaps the only vig was a wolf vig. Woah, seems unlikely because of the role balance in the game, but possible. Then one of Cato and Omega would be a vanilla human or GA.

Or perhaps the Miller wasn't told about his role. This would make more sense -- a Miller who's told about his role could have claimed it super early, and forced a challenge from the wolves or been a confirmed human. Adding a confirmed human is hardly the reason one would put a Miller in the game! Necklessone, can you comment at all on whether the Miller was told about his role? (I only ask because the wolves must have asked if they intended to make a false claim about this, so I figure I can hope to be told as much as they would hypothetically have been told.)

And of course, as far as anyone else knows, I could be a wolf. I'd say I'm the easiest stooge for the wolves to keep around. Mauling me would be a huge mistake, unless MEM was a wolf and they were using this line of thinking to frame Cato/Omega.


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