Day 5: Don't Forget the Message!

The wizard's natural habitat.
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Day 5: Don't Forget the Message!

Postby DastardlyOldMan » 12 Aug 2013, 20:30:30

Smirker knew he had it coming. Everyone was avoiding eye contact, and muttering under their breath as he walked past. He was a full Professor! He had an official wizarding hat! He didn't have to take this lying down.

As Ridcully did the official tally, Smirker edged closer to the door and called fire to his fingertips.

"Now. No one move! Bledlow, open this door!"

Ridcully nodded. The desparate wizard laid down a ring of fire around the doorway as he fled through it. The other wizards yammered for a few moments before dismantling. They all begain to give chase as only a committee of wizards can: everyone but the Dean took two quick steps back.

"Oh, fiddlesticks.*** Fine"

As the Dean reluctantly edged toward the door, a shriek came from the hallway, followed by the vacuum of sound normally associated with alchemy shops and careless smokers. This, in turn, was followed by a crashing thud that resonated through the banquet hall, normally associated with only one thing.

Trolls, being mainly made of rock, were neutral on the concept of fire. Natural philosophers in Ephebe had reasoned that you could use the flint in certain trolls to start a fire, but they failed to consider the steel in the rest of the troll, particularly around the fist area. Lance-Corporal Acting-Constable Supreme-General Detritus was no different in this regard. As he walked into the room carrying a slightly-shorter wizard, he eyed the Dean carefully.

"Commander Vimes, he say 'Detritus, you good watchmantroll. You go to big place with pointy heads. You tell pointy heads. Do not forget message. There funny lights. You deft not forget message.' Detritus like a eggplant, only not soft and cuddly. He not forget.

Detritus like funny lights. Not see funny lights. See pointy head. But pointy head make lights. Not funny lights. Lights tickle. Detritus tickle funny man back. No more lights.

You NOT FORGET MESSAGE. You hear?"

Detritus deposited Smirker's glaze-eyed corpse to the ground, turned smartly, and stomped his way out the door.

***A molasses badger suddenly found itself curled up - not to an exotic, colorful species of Mudflapper in the comfort of a burrow - but to a distinctly thorny Wahoonie tree, thirty feet in the air. Only his innate disregard for inertia saved him from slowly oozing downward.
--
Everyone slept fitfully that night, waiting to see who would be next. Odd dreams came and went, but the next morning, when everyone assembled, you were all accounted for.
--
Smirker: Wizard (Fire: Newt) - Lynched

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Re: Day 5: Don't Forget the Message!

Postby DastardlyOldMan » 12 Aug 2013, 20:30:37

Smirker - 11 - necklessone, FurinMirado, RaveBomb, Ozymandias, Anvilfang, Aldax, Hellheart, Omega, dferrantino, simple_simon, Mister E. Meat
Anzig - 3 - 7-Zark-7, Visigoth, rekard
Iron Clad Burrito - 3 - Meta4, Anzig, AugenVonSauron
Ozymandias - 2 - stigmata, Ryvvn
AugenVonSauron - 1 - San
rekard - 1 - Iron Clad Burrito
RaveBomb - 1 - Smirker

Missed Votes:
Clearasday
sphenodont
Wasabi

[+] Vote History
rekard votes for Iron Clad Burrito (retracted)
Ozymandias votes for stigmata (retracted)
San votes for AugenVonSauron
Smirker votes for Ozymandias (retracted)
RaveBomb votes for Ozymandias (retracted)
stigmata votes for Ozymandias
Ryvvn votes for Ozymandias
necklessone votes for Smirker
FurinMirado votes for Smirker
RaveBomb votes for Smirker
Mister E. Meat votes for RaveBomb (retracted)
Ozymandias votes for Smirker
Anvilfang votes for Smirker
7-Zark-7 votes for Anzig
Iron Clad Burrito votes for rekard
Aldax votes for Smirker
Meta4 votes for Iron Clad Burrito
Anzig votes for Iron Clad Burrito
AugenVonSauron votes for Iron Clad Burrito
Visigoth votes for Anzig
Hellheart votes for Smirker
Omega votes for Smirker
rekard votes for Anzig
dferrantino votes for Smirker
Smirker votes for RaveBomb
simple_simon votes for Smirker
Mister E. Meat votes for Smirker

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Re: Day 5: Don't Forget the Message!

Postby Ryvvn » 12 Aug 2013, 20:35:24

:shock:
.
.
.
:)
.
.
.
:flail:

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Re: Day 5: Don't Forget the Message!

Postby Ozymandias » 12 Aug 2013, 20:41:24

Odd that there wasn't any flavor text indication of GA protection.

Wasn't there something in the rules about Wolves not being able to maul if they used all their Shadow powers?

Maybe that's what happened?

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Re: Day 5: Don't Forget the Message!

Postby rekard » 12 Aug 2013, 20:52:08

One of the worst voting days I have ever seen. Honestly.

11 votes out of 25 to lynch a human.

At least there was no maul, but this might as well be Day 4. Clear missed a thrid vote, and also it' s clear that Ozy, if not wolf, is just having poor aim.

Let's make this day useful and no more 10 vote wagons.

Also, about the Shadow Word substituting a maul, that was in the initial draft, but I don't see anything of the sort in the actual rules. Just this:

The wolves will only be able to use a subset of their words while still mauling

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Re: Day 5: Don't Forget the Message!

Postby Ryvvn » 12 Aug 2013, 20:57:29

rekard wrote:Also, about the Shadow Word substituting a maul, that was in the initial draft, but I don't see anything of the sort in the actual rules. Just this:
The wolves will only be able to use a subset of their words while still mauling


Not sure exactly what that would mean, but is it possible the wolves passed up mauling in an attempt to get a day full of corrupted power usage from humans? Or just piled all their shadow words onto dferrantino?

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Re: Day 5: Don't Forget the Message!

Postby rekard » 12 Aug 2013, 21:03:14

Also, wait a minute. The timing of the power and all this was just too convenient. If Ozy and Dferr are both wolves, the. the Day 4 ploy would have given a wolf Dferr some special power according to the rules. They say that a wolf that receives words will get something special, or with the correct combination even a one time conversion.

And why did Ozy so easily try to make people give words to a possible wolf without accounting for possible special powers a wolf could get? What makes so certain that any voluntary would not be a wolf? ACTUALLY, a wolf had the best reason to offer himself as a "sacrifice". More words, a better power very likely. So no. Unless a target actually is more justifiably a human don't hear any argument of "give more elements to this guy". Dferrantino even didn't have much credit to be trusted with words of power. He could still be easily a wolf and people were giving him the keys.

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Re: Day 5: Don't Forget the Message!

Postby Ozymandias » 12 Aug 2013, 21:04:26

Ryvvn wrote:
rekard wrote:Also, about the Shadow Word substituting a maul, that was in the initial draft, but I don't see anything of the sort in the actual rules. Just this:
The wolves will only be able to use a subset of their words while still mauling


Not sure exactly what that would mean, but is it possible the wolves passed up mauling in an attempt to get a day full of corrupted power usage from humans? Or just piled all their shadow words onto dferrantino?

But then why not just maul dferrantino, and use some shadow words on other players?

Hmm, I've been assuming that at least one Wolf needs to maul instead of using his Shadow power.

Worst case scenario (all three missing voters are Wolves) would still leave two Wolves capable of mauling.

So maybe what happened is that a Wolf cast a maul vote but then forgot to cast a lynch vote?

I think that might result in an invalid maul ...

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Re: Day 5: Don't Forget the Message!

Postby rekard » 12 Aug 2013, 21:07:23

Ryvvn wrote:
rekard wrote:Also, about the Shadow Word substituting a maul, that was in the initial draft, but I don't see anything of the sort in the actual rules. Just this:
The wolves will only be able to use a subset of their words while still mauling


Not sure exactly what that would mean, but is it possible the wolves passed up mauling in an attempt to get a day full of corrupted power usage from humans? Or just piled all their shadow words onto dferrantino?


There is no way to know, but rules don't explicitly say that and DOM said there would be no hidden rules but I am thinking that there could have been a protection. Someone received an Earth word and a 2nd for sure and protected someone. Also guys, don't say your powers so easily. That's information the wolves want and that they can perfectly manipulate if they so desire.

And I think I will vote Retracted. Was Anzig for now.

Omega and dferrantino are close second candidates.
Last edited by rekard on 13 Aug 2013, 16:44:38, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Day 5: Don't Forget the Message!

Postby Ryvvn » 12 Aug 2013, 21:07:59

rekard wrote:Also, wait a minute. The timing of the power and all this was just too convenient. If Ozy and Dferr are both wolves, the. the Day 4 ploy would have given a wolf Dferr some special power according to the rules. They say that a wolf that receives words will get something special, or with the correct combination even a one time conversion.

And why did Ozy so easily try to make people give words to a possible wolf without accounting for possible special powers a wolf could get? What makes so certain that any voluntary would not be a wolf? ACTUALLY, a wolf had the best reason to offer himself as a "sacrifice". More words, a better power very likely. So no. Unless a target actually is more justifiably a human don't hear any argument of "give more elements to this guy". Dferrantino even didn't have much credit to be trusted with words of power. He could still be easily a wolf and people were giving him the keys.


I wouldn't put the onus on dferrantino, as Ozy had attempted to get Zark on-board at first, who delayed, then Ozy suggested CAD, and only after I brought up hesitations about CAD's lack of participation, did Ozy bring up dferrantino.

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Re: Day 5: Don't Forget the Message!

Postby Ryvvn » 12 Aug 2013, 21:10:25

rekard wrote:Also guys, don't say your powers so easily.


I admitted my own potential for misstep when I outed myself, but was doing so because I felt it necessary to call out Ozy on his lack of information regarding the power he had received.

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Re: Day 5: Don't Forget the Message!

Postby Ozymandias » 12 Aug 2013, 21:11:04

rekard wrote:Also, wait a minute. The timing of the power and all this was just too convenient. If Ozy and Dferr are both wolves, the. the Day 4 ploy would have given a wolf Dferr some special power according to the rules. They say that a wolf that receives words will get something special, or with the correct combination even a one time conversion.

And why did Ozy so easily try to make people give words to a possible wolf without accounting for possible special powers a wolf could get? What makes so certain that any voluntary would not be a wolf? ACTUALLY, a wolf had the best reason to offer himself as a "sacrifice". More words, a better power very likely. So no. Unless a target actually is more justifiably a human don't hear any argument of "give more elements to this guy". Dferrantino even didn't have much credit to be trusted with words of power. He could still be easily a wolf and people were giving him the keys.

But if dferrantino is a Wolf, then the Wolves wouldn't need to use Shadow powers on him, so why wouldn't they maul Ryvvn?

Both Ryvvn and dferrantino being alive, when no one else was mauled, doesn't make any sense.

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Re: Day 5: Don't Forget the Message!

Postby rekard » 12 Aug 2013, 21:11:58

It could have been a trap. Guess who has each word, and you get to know who to maul and who to sabotage.

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Re: Day 5: Don't Forget the Message!

Postby rekard » 12 Aug 2013, 21:14:17

Ozymandias wrote:
rekard wrote:Also, wait a minute. The timing of the power and all this was just too convenient. If Ozy and Dferr are both wolves, the. the Day 4 ploy would have given a wolf Dferr some special power according to the rules. They say that a wolf that receives words will get something special, or with the correct combination even a one time conversion.

And why did Ozy so easily try to make people give words to a possible wolf without accounting for possible special powers a wolf could get? What makes so certain that any voluntary would not be a wolf? ACTUALLY, a wolf had the best reason to offer himself as a "sacrifice". More words, a better power very likely. So no. Unless a target actually is more justifiably a human don't hear any argument of "give more elements to this guy". Dferrantino even didn't have much credit to be trusted with words of power. He could still be easily a wolf and people were giving him the keys.

But if dferrantino is a Wolf, then the Wolves wouldn't need to use Shadow powers on him, so why wouldn't they maul Ryvvn?

Both Ryvvn and dferrantino being alive, when no one else was mauled, doesn't make any sense.


Earth words are defensive. Someone could have protected someone. Why do you think there was no GA if it wasn't mentioned in the flavor text? There is not much of a basis to assume that.

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Re: Day 5: Don't Forget the Message!

Postby Ozymandias » 12 Aug 2013, 21:15:50

rekard wrote:And I think I will vote Anzig for now.

Remind me, why are you suspicious of Anzig?

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Re: Day 5: Don't Forget the Message!

Postby DastardlyOldMan » 12 Aug 2013, 21:15:58

rekard wrote:Also, about the Shadow Word substituting a maul, that was in the initial draft, but I don't see anything of the sort in the actual rules. Just this:
The wolves will only be able to use a subset of their words while still mauling


Ryvvn wrote:Not sure exactly what that would mean, but is it possible the wolves passed up mauling in an attempt to get a day full of corrupted power usage from humans? Or just piled all their shadow words onto dferrantino?

rekard wrote:There is no way to know, but rules don't explicitly say that and DOM said there would be no hidden rules but I am thinking that there could have been a protection. Someone received an Earth word and a 2nd for sure and protected someone. Also guys, don't say your powers so easily. That's information the wolves want and that they can perfectly manipulate if they so desire.


That is more ambiguous than I wanted it to be, and I will clarify in the Rules.

The wolves can forgo the maul to use all of their corruption powers.

Also, mods - apparently we can only embed 3 quotes deep, not sure if that's a phpBB limitation or something we can get tweaked?

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Re: Day 5: Don't Forget the Message!

Postby rekard » 12 Aug 2013, 21:17:35

Thanks DOM. That clears things up. So it could have been a GA or full shadow word use.

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Re: Day 5: Don't Forget the Message!

Postby Ozymandias » 12 Aug 2013, 21:17:47

rekard wrote:Earth words are defensive. Someone could have protected someone. Why do you think there was no GA if it wasn't mentioned in the flavor text? There is not much of a basis to assume that.

Well, if someone did successfully GA protect someone, they should come forward, because that would be confirmation that their target is Human.

Even if it's Ryvvn, who I'm completely sure is Human, it would be good to know that the Wolves decided to maul him instead of dferrantino.

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Re: Day 5: Don't Forget the Message!

Postby DastardlyOldMan » 12 Aug 2013, 21:17:57

((And power PMs have all been sent.))

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Re: Day 5: Don't Forget the Message!

Postby rekard » 12 Aug 2013, 21:19:42

Ozymandias wrote:
rekard wrote:And I think I will vote Anzig for now.

Remind me, why are you suspicious of Anzig?


His vote on Zark on Day 3 doesn't give a good vibe. So I am checking up on it. I may probably change anytime.

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Re: Day 5: Don't Forget the Message!

Postby rekard » 12 Aug 2013, 21:23:36

Ozymandias wrote:
rekard wrote:Earth words are defensive. Someone could have protected someone. Why do you think there was no GA if it wasn't mentioned in the flavor text? There is not much of a basis to assume that.

Well, if someone did successfully GA protect someone, they should come forward, because that would be confirmation that their target is Human.

Even if it's Ryvvn, who I'm completely sure is Human, it would be good to know that the Wolves decided to maul him instead of dferrantino.


Sadly, it's tough to know that. A wolf can claim that :/

Also:

The wolves can forgo the maul to more fully utilize their corruption abilities. A subset of wolves can still corrupt while the maul occurs.


Hmph. Is not possible to conclude 100% one or the other happened.

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Re: Day 5: Don't Forget the Message!

Postby rekard » 12 Aug 2013, 21:26:53

Ohhh I just reached the 3k posts milestone. And now Son Goten goes to sleep.

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Re: Day 5: Don't Forget the Message!

Postby DastardlyOldMan » 12 Aug 2013, 21:28:33

DastardlyOldMan wrote:((And power PMs have all been sent.))

Ahem.

((Almost all power PMs have been sent, except those that required me to remember what powers there were yesterday. . . !))

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Re: Day 5: Don't Forget the Message!

Postby Ozymandias » 12 Aug 2013, 21:32:13

rekard wrote:
Ozymandias wrote:
rekard wrote:Earth words are defensive. Someone could have protected someone. Why do you think there was no GA if it wasn't mentioned in the flavor text? There is not much of a basis to assume that.

Well, if someone did successfully GA protect someone, they should come forward, because that would be confirmation that their target is Human.

Even if it's Ryvvn, who I'm completely sure is Human, it would be good to know that the Wolves decided to maul him instead of dferrantino.


Sadly, it's tough to know that. A wolf can claim that :/

True, but if that player dies as a confirmed Human then we'd be able to verify the info.

Also, a Wolf making a false GA claim risks being exposed if the two remaining Earth Elementals targeted other players.

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Re: Day 5: Don't Forget the Message!

Postby Hellheart » 12 Aug 2013, 21:39:13

rekard wrote:One of the worst voting days I have ever seen. Honestly.

11 votes out of 25 to lynch a human.

At least there was no maul, but this might as well be Day 4. Clear missed a thrid vote, and also it' s clear that Ozy, if not wolf, is just having poor aim.

I agree that Ozy's bandwagons have missed entirely. I don't think that we should follow along with Ozy's bandwagons so readily...or at all, really, until he starts landing on the right people.

The problem is that nobody else has really taken the reins and started pushing hard enough, with justification, for another guy to lynch. There's been plenty of fire directed at Ozy or Stigmata, but it's wasted effort because it's not in our interest to lynch a non-elemental. I'm sorry, but at this point we're not all going to pile up on somebody just on a hunch.

I went along with the Smirker bandwagon because it made sense to do so. Smirker was pushing for the death of both of the lovers (even if Ozy is a wolf, hitting the one non-elemental wolf isn't a priority. We want the elemental wolves. And Ozy's accused/cleared such a range of people that knowing he's a wolf would leave us with little information we could be confident about), and his sole focus was on accusing other people of being wolves. And none of the other options had any real justification behind them.

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Re: Day 5: Don't Forget the Message!

Postby Anzig » 12 Aug 2013, 21:50:49

I'm going with Ryvvn RETRACTED for now. Reasoning is the late day 3 vote against mortus which looked safe give Zark's huge lead.

ed:
It's a coinflip for me between Ryvvn and sphenodont.

ed2:
retracted vote for ryvvn.
Last edited by Anzig on 13 Aug 2013, 04:51:27, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Day 5: Don't Forget the Message!

Postby Anzig » 12 Aug 2013, 21:58:13

rekard wrote:
Ozymandias wrote:
rekard wrote:And I think I will vote Anzig for now.

Remind me, why are you suspicious of Anzig?


His vote on Zark on Day 3 doesn't give a good vibe. So I am checking up on it. I may probably change anytime.


To be clear, you're voting to lynch me because I made a lynch vote against someone who turned out to have an anti-lynch power.
And the lynch result that day was completely random. Which is awful appropriate for a discworld theme to have the first wolf kill down to luck. :P

Not sure where I'm going with this, but it is very amusing.

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Re: Day 5: Don't Forget the Message!

Postby Omega » 12 Aug 2013, 22:11:24

It is Day 5, and Ozy is still alive. And I'm pretty sure he's smart enough to get the wolves no-maul to throw us off.

Furthermore, his "plan" has continued to not work. This very well may be me continuing to be annoyed by not having any sort of power to amuse myself with but given the sheer number of times he's done just this sort of thing, retracted (f. Ozymandias).
Last edited by Omega on 13 Aug 2013, 00:32:55, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Vote retraction

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Re: Day 5: Don't Forget the Message!

Postby Ozymandias » 12 Aug 2013, 22:14:51

Anzig wrote:I'm going with Ryvvn for now. Reasoning is the late day 3 vote against mortus which looked safe give Zark's huge lead.

Zark had five votes at the time, and Mortus had three.

I don't see how a two-vote lead can be considered "huge"-- especially given all the vote manipulation powers in play (such as, ahem, mine).

And the fact is, if Ryvvn didn't put what at the time was the fourth vote on Mortus, then he would still be alive.

So why in the world would you punish Ryvvn for killing a Wolf?

Anzig wrote:It's a coinflip for me between Ryvvn and sphenodont.

I agree spheno vote's is a little odder, because when he found himself in lynch trouble, it was strange that spheno put the third vote on Mortus instead of the sixth vote on Zark (I think spheno had five votes at the time).

But the fact of the matter there were FOUR other players besides Mortus with two votes on them.

Spheno could have picked any one of them, but chose a Wolf. If he were a Wolf, why would he put a fellow Wolf in danger? At a time when he was in true peril, and thus wasn't worried about "Human Cred"? It just seems very unlikely.

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Re: Day 5: Don't Forget the Message!

Postby Ozymandias » 12 Aug 2013, 22:18:43

Omega wrote:It is Day 5, and Ozy is still alive. And I'm pretty sure he's smart enough to get the wolves no-maul to throw us off.

That's an incredibly lazy argument. If I were a Wolf, I could have easily had Ryvvn or dferrantino mauled without too many people wondering why I was still alive.

So why didn't I?

If you can't come up with a reasonable answer for that simple question, then you shouldn't vote to lynch me.

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Re: Day 5: Don't Forget the Message!

Postby Ozymandias » 12 Aug 2013, 22:22:54

Omega wrote:This very well may be me continuing to be annoyed by not having any sort of power to amuse myself with.

I feel bad for you. Seriously.

I'm curious-- did anyone else not get any powers that they were expecting to get last night?

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Re: Day 5: Don't Forget the Message!

Postby Hellheart » 12 Aug 2013, 22:29:58

Alright, let me see if I can provide another source of reasoning. Some or all of this may not apply because I don't know what a person's villager game really looks like.

I agree that Anzig should be one of the bandwagons, although there may be other players that should be suspected as much or more. All of Anzig's votes could be considered "safe" votes except for the 5th vote on Zark: Day 1 he hopped from Ozymandias to be the last person voting for Stigmata, (reason: voting for a newbie and/or mauling the crap out of Ozy), Day 2 he voted for FurinMirado and sat there (reason: thought the power use was sketchy), Day 4 he joined the Smirker bandwagon awhile down the road (probably can't get ANY read off of that).

He's given no real justification for any of his votes, even the late vote on Stigmata, so other people have to infer what they mean. He's made one helpful post that I can recall - pointing out that Wasabi did not claim the Bursar - and outside of that he's kept his trap shut.

Several people have said that their suspicion of Anzig is based on a "hunch." Is this a case of a wolf that's trying really, really hard to not look like a wolf?

EDIT: And if he is a wolf, we should look at Wasabi really hard. Did you notice that he was the one to quote what Wasabi said, clearing him? I would've expected Wasabi to do that...but Wasabi didn't vote, because he wasn't here. It sounds like Anzig know that he would not be here, and stepped in to defend him before a bandwagon rolled around.

EDIT2: No reason to ask rhetorical questions. Damnit, I may be a newbie, but I need to start feeling more confident about my accusations and analysis!

----------

I have other suspicions, but I have no idea how these people normally play so I have no idea whether they're playing their normal villager game:

Aldax is another player that's kept very quiet and offered no analysis. His single-word vote for me on Day 3 did bring my attention to this fact, but it isn't the reason he bothers me.

Ravebomb has posted an awful lot...but all of his posts focus on humor and provide no analysis at all. His votes on the first 3 days went: Stigmata, Ozy > MEM > Blindsniper, Zark...for a whopping 3 non-elementals and a dead confirmed human. If this is his normal villager game, then hey whatever. But with a Kroxigor that experienced, he's not to be taken lightly. I also find it EXTREMELY amusing that he correctly predicted the bandwagon for Ionitor on Day 2.

Other players that I have no statements recorded in any direction (up to halfway through Day 4): Augen (late to the party), CAD (busy), Dferrantino (kinda busy?), Meta4, San, and Wasabi.

Wasabi bothers me, but it's hard to say why other than that his votes on days 2 and 3 looked like throwaways after Ionitor claimed non-elemental, and it feels like he's just clammed up more and more as the game's gone on.

I could get behind Omega, but I'd really like to have more reasoning behind it. Some of his posts have substance, but no statements besides clearing Ozy. His votes are very disciplined - he jumped off of Ionitor at the right time onto MEM, he stuck with MEM on the following day, and he rode along on the Smirker bandwagon. Then again, because this is TWG, it can be reasonable to suspect somebody for making perfectly acceptable votes with completely innocuous timing.

---

I don't think that rekard is a wolf...or if he is, he should stick around for awhile because he makes worthwhile contributions if you take his accusations with a grain of salt. ICB has contributed quite a bit without trying to lead the discussion - although his votes also fall into the "safe" category, I think that if he is a wolf he's doing really well at undermining his own cause.
Last edited by Hellheart on 12 Aug 2013, 22:40:05, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Day 5: Don't Forget the Message!

Postby Omega » 12 Aug 2013, 22:31:15

Ozymandias wrote:
Omega wrote:It is Day 5, and Ozy is still alive. And I'm pretty sure he's smart enough to get the wolves no-maul to throw us off.

That's an incredibly lazy argument. If I were a Wolf, I could have easily had Ryvvn or dferrantino mauled without too many people wondering why I was still alive.

So why didn't I?

If you can't come up with a reasonable answer for that simple question, then you shouldn't vote to lynch me.


I certainly didn't suggest that it was my best argument ever.

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Re: Day 5: Don't Forget the Message!

Postby Ryvvn » 12 Aug 2013, 22:36:57

Anzig wrote:I'm going with Ryvvn for now. Reasoning is the late day 3 vote against mortus which looked safe give Zark's huge lead.

ed:
It's a coinflip for me between Ryvvn and sphenodont.


I know this is a weak justification but my vote on Mortus at the time was for two reasons:

As with Day 2, I had always planned to change my vote off of rekard (hopefully evident by my use of vote colors so far, my official and final votes have consistently been red; rekard's name was in purple, to go along with my avatar and my feeling slighted at his misspelling my name). On Day 2 I switched to a late day vote because of the excitement everyone else was raising about a possible tie. So, when I voted for rekard again at the start of Day 3 (for the same slight) I again knew I'd be changing by the end, and when he verbally reprimanded me for "throwaway" votes I switched to Mortus as a sign of "no hard feelings, I'll agree with you on voting this random person" and because people were looking to cause another tie. I myself have not gotten a good read on anybody and have just been doing my best to actively participate, so none of my votes were in belief that the accused were a wolf; even my vote yesterday for Ozy was not in full confidence in his being a wolf, just in the uncovering of his obfuscating information which made him seem suspicious to me.

Anyway, that's my defense, but I'd understand if your vote stands; as I also found Hellheart's theory pretty compelling despite it putting me in potential cross hairs.

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Re: Day 5: Don't Forget the Message!

Postby Hellheart » 12 Aug 2013, 22:43:39

Ryvvn wrote:Anyway, that's my defense, but I'd understand if your vote stands; as I also found Hellheart's theory pretty compelling despite it putting me in potential cross hairs.

For what it's worth, I thought you might be a wolf at the start of day 4, but when I compiled the C/S/A list I noticed that both of your switches were from early rekard votes because he misspelled your name. I noted that for a reason - in that light, your votes look a lot less suspicious. This goes double since you're a newbie and, if you're like me, it's really hard to accuse people or throw out early votes because there's no way to be confident about what you think.

So you went waaay down on my list of suspects, to the point where I think it's unfair to pick on you for being skittish about pushing for anything really hard.

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Re: Day 5: Don't Forget the Message!

Postby Hellheart » 12 Aug 2013, 22:48:05

Oh, for now I'm going to hop on the Anzig bandwagon because if he's a wolf then we have a nearly guaranteed 2-for-1 with Wasabi. This better not be a runaway, though, because otherwise I'm going to have to drum up a lot of support for another bandwagon.

Maybe a Ravebomb bandwagon - it'd be a clown car, we could fit lots of people into it.

EDIT: To clarify my reasoning regarding Wasabi: he made no mention on Day 3 that he would be absent on Day 4. The only other likely venue for him to note his upcoming absence would be the wolf board. If Wasabi mentions in the wolf board that "hey, sorry guys but I'm probably not going to be around tomorrow," then somebody would have to defend their fellow wolf by proxy.

It's not like Anzig waited until the last minute to clear Wasabi - people hadn't even started voting for him yet and it was at least 2 hours before EOD.

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Re: Day 5: Don't Forget the Message!

Postby Ozymandias » 12 Aug 2013, 23:14:14

The reason I don't consider Anzig to be that suspicious has to do with the following argument ...

Hellheart wrote:I agree that Anzig should be one of the bandwagons, although there may be other players that should be suspected as much or more. All of Anzig's votes could be considered "safe" votes except for the 5th vote on Zark: Day 1 he hopped from Ozymandias to be the last person voting for Stigmata, (reason: voting for a newbie and/or mauling the crap out of Ozy)

See, I actually don't consider that vote switch "safe" at all.

I was knocked out of the game with about 30 minutes left in Day 1, so the votes of the three players who were voting for me no longer counted.

But those players did NOT have to revote-- and in fact both dferrantino and simon did not do so.

Yet ~10 minutes later Anzig chose to vote for stigmata, putting him in what looked like a tie with Rictus.

If we were a Wolf, why would he do this? That late vote could have been responsible for lynching stigmata, which if stigmata is Human would make Anzig look very suspicious. And of course if stigmata is a Wolf than voting for him makes even less sense.

So, to me, Anzig's Day 1 vote switch is indicative of a Human trying to lynch someone he suspects to be a Wolf.

Hellheart wrote:And if [Anzig] is a wolf, we should look at Wasabi really hard. Did you notice that he was the one to quote what Wasabi said, clearing him?

I'm confused-- wasn't I the one who first cleared Wasabi?

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Re: Day 5: Don't Forget the Message!

Postby Ozymandias » 12 Aug 2013, 23:40:18

rekard wrote:One of the worst voting days I have ever seen. Honestly.

11 votes out of 25 to lynch a human.

Oh for crying out loud, it was not that bad.

With 2.5 hours to go, here were the Day 4 vote totals:

Current Vote Tally:
Smirker - 6 - necklessone, FurinMirado, RaveBomb, Ozymandias, Anvilfang, Aldax
Iron Clad Burrito - 4 - rekard, Meta4, Anzig, Auggie
Ozymandias - 3 - Smirker, stigmata, Ryvvn
Anzig - 2 - 7-Zark-7, Visigoth
AugenVonSauron - 1 - San
RaveBomb - 1 - Mister E. Meat
rekard - 1 - Iron Clad Burrito

And that's with 18 of the eventual 22 votes in, which works out to 82% of the final vote.

So there is PLENTY of information to be mined from yesterday's voting.

rekard wrote:and also it' s clear that Ozy, if not wolf, is just having poor aim.

Hey, all I did was fire back at Smirker after he voted for me.

When I voted for Smirker, the tally was 3 votes for Smirker and 3 for me.

If you read the Day 4 thread, you'll see that I gave him plenty of opportunities to switch off of me, but he didn't do it until it was too late.

By the way, rekard, if you really wanted to try to keep the bandwagons close, then why did you switch off of second-place ICB to fourth-place Anzig:

rekard wrote:I'll go with Anzig at this moment because I'm not fully.convinced by the Smirker wagon, although I still will be fine if things stay this way.

I don't know what the point of that switch was, but clearly you directly contributed to the huge final vote tally disparity that you are now complaining about.

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Re: Day 5: Don't Forget the Message!

Postby Hellheart » 13 Aug 2013, 00:05:54

Ozymandias wrote:So, to me, Anzig's Day 1 vote switch is indicative of a Human trying to lynch someone he suspects to be a Wolf.

On Day 1? What, do you think he had a soul read on a player with no voting or power history to go off of? Did Stigmata's avatar give off a wolfish vibe?

"Pull the other one, it's got bells on" indeed. He could have a number of reasons for voting for Stigmata, but the "I think he's a wolf" reason is total bullshit and you know it.

His reasoning doesn't even matter - all that matters is "does his vote look like it had justification?" As you pointed out, it makes him look human because even from the super analytical wolfish-thinking angle it has justification. If Stigmata is a human and got lynched, then Anzig gets accused and he just says that he switched his vote to replace your removed vote. That's perfectly justified, and I don't think anyone could drum up enough of a bandwagon to lynch someone for that. That constitutes a safe vote to me.

Ozymandias wrote:
Hellheart wrote:And if [Anzig] is a wolf, we should look at Wasabi really hard. Did you notice that he was the one to quote what Wasabi said, clearing him?

I'm confused-- wasn't I the one who first cleared Wasabi?

Of course you recalled it because you asked the question, but as you said you were in an airport shuttle. When I read "point-blank," I actually thought you meant through a PM because you've had that power in this game.

It was only after anzig quoted your question and his answer that it made sense. He had a prompting to do so, but his actions still could have been done for exactly the reasons I outlined. It's almost too helpful from a player who hasn't made many posts at all.

The 2-for-1 is my primary justification for voting for anzig, though. If anyone other than Ozy can come up with a compelling reason for a better bandwagon and push it along enough, I may be willing to hop off and ride that one instead.

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Re: Day 5: Don't Forget the Message!

Postby Omega » 13 Aug 2013, 00:33:15

Will spend more time on this tomorrow.

In the mean time, retracting my vote.

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Re: Day 5: Don't Forget the Message!

Postby Ozymandias » 13 Aug 2013, 00:37:30

Hellheart wrote:
Ozymandias wrote:So, to me, Anzig's Day 1 vote switch is indicative of a Human trying to lynch someone he suspects to be a Wolf.

On Day 1? What, do you think he had a soul read on a player with no voting or power history to go off of? Did Stigmata's avatar give off a wolfish vibe?

"Pull the other one, it's got bells on" indeed. He could have a number of reasons for voting for Stigmata, but the "I think he's a wolf" reason is total bullshit and you know it.

His reasoning doesn't even matter - all that matters is "does his vote look like it had justification?" As you pointed out, it makes him look human because even from the super analytical wolfish-thinking angle it has justification. If Stigmata is a human and got lynched, then Anzig gets accused and he just says that he switched his vote to replace your removed vote. That's perfectly justified, and I don't think anyone could drum up enough of a bandwagon to lynch someone for that. That constitutes a safe vote to me.

It wouldn't matter if he had justification-- if stigmata got lynched and was revealed as a Human, then Anzig would have become one of the top Wolf suspects. Most Wolves wouldn't risk drawing attention to themselves in that situation-- there's just too little upside to such a vote. The slight Human cred you gain if the Human you vote for lives pales in comparison to the Wolf suspicion you accrue if he dies.

(Of course, all this is predicated on Anzig knowing that he did not actually have to revote. That may be an incorrect assumption.)

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Re: Day 5: Don't Forget the Message!

Postby Ozymandias » 13 Aug 2013, 01:01:14

Now that a fifth Non-Elemental with an Element Affinity (simple_simon) has come forward, I think it's time for all Non-Elementals to state their affinities.

stigmata and Zark, can each of you please specify which Element you have an affinity for?

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Re: Day 5: Don't Forget the Message!

Postby stigmata » 13 Aug 2013, 01:21:01

Ook ook ook. For what purpose? I don't genuinely think it'll make a huge change to the game, but I don't think I need to give you any information at the moment.

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Re: Day 5: Don't Forget the Message!

Postby Ozymandias » 13 Aug 2013, 01:25:54

stigmata wrote:Ook ook ook. For what purpose? I don't genuinely think it'll make a huge change to the game, but I don't think I need to give you any information at the moment.

To make sure you're both not claiming the same Affinity-- in which case one of you would almost certainly be a Wolf.

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Re: Day 5: Don't Forget the Message!

Postby Hellheart » 13 Aug 2013, 03:37:20

Ozymandias wrote:It wouldn't matter if he had justification-- if stigmata got lynched and was revealed as a Human, then Anzig would have become one of the top Wolf suspects.

From that perspective, the vote for Stigmata is suicidal unless Anzig knew for sure that Stigmata was a wolf on Day 1. In other words, what makes you think that Anzig would risk that as a human were he aware of this risk? It certainly is an even worse prospect if he knew that Stigmata was human, but it's a hell of a risk either way.

I think it's more likely that Anzig was not looking at the situation with the perspective you outline. I don't think it even crossed his mind - it was a kneejerk reaction after an out-of-the-blue knockout that took a vote away from Stigmata and left his vote dangling in midair. That certainly doesn't make him a wolf, but I wouldn't give it as much weight as you do for clearing him as human.

Again, if someone else has a reasonable justification for starting a better bandwagon, I'll probably hop onto it. I don't give much credence to Day 1 votes, but that does cast just enough doubt for me to look elsewhere for a day or more if there's a compelling reason to do so. But until you start to get correct reads, I have to second-guess a lot of your logic and arguments.

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Re: Day 5: Don't Forget the Message!

Postby dferrantino » 13 Aug 2013, 04:28:36

So much power coursing through me. I can feel the energy of the cosmos. I am but a vessel...

ME-TE-Or......

Wait, no, just gas. I got nothing last night.

Also rekard.
Last edited by dferrantino on 13 Aug 2013, 09:48:55, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Day 5: Don't Forget the Message!

Postby San » 13 Aug 2013, 04:48:40

Iron Clad Burrito from hell's heart I stab at thee!

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Re: Day 5: Don't Forget the Message!

Postby Anzig » 13 Aug 2013, 04:49:15

Ozymandias wrote:
Anzig wrote:I'm going with Ryvvn for now. Reasoning is the late day 3 vote against mortus which looked safe give Zark's huge lead.

Zark had five votes at the time, and Mortus had three.

I don't see how a two-vote lead can be considered "huge"-- especially given all the vote manipulation powers in play (such as, ahem, mine).


I was counting backward from the day-end total. :oops:
There goes that argument.

And I didn't clear wasabi of anything. Ozy, that master manipulator, claimed a challenge/response showing wasabi RP'd the bursar role. I was fact checking Ozy's claim.

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Re: Day 5: Don't Forget the Message!

Postby Anzig » 13 Aug 2013, 04:54:21

rekard, 'cause gas is the best reason I've seen today. :?

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Re: Day 5: Don't Forget the Message!

Postby sphenodont » 13 Aug 2013, 05:41:33

Sorry for missing the vote yesterday. It was not intentional, but Stuff happened that kept me from getting online.

I'll have to go back to read yesterday's thread, and catch up wtih today's action.

Edit: Also, Hellheart, nice wall-o-text there. Definitely good to see some new blood hacking out some meaty analysis. (Now whether I agree with it, no idea yet.)


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