Day 6: Cut-Me-Own-Throat

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Day 6: Cut-Me-Own-Throat

Postby DastardlyOldMan » 13 Aug 2013, 20:13:46

The committee was in full force today. There had been seven subcommittees formed to investigate the potential for creating further subcommittees (most of which revolved around the acquisition of more ham). Several of the wizards were huddled in the corner experimenting on one another, while several others gazed on in stern disapproval. The Lecturer in Recent Runes had formed a case study entirely out of pudding, which the Dean promptly ate - for science.

Once more, Ridcully extracted the votes from the Sorting Fruit Bowl. He muttered under his breath as he worked to extract them all from one another. The whole thing was a mess. Finally, he managed to extract them and get them counted.

"Another landslide, I see. Ah, interesting."

Mrs. Whitlow was flabbergasted. She was the reason this banquet happened while the servants scattered at the first sign of actual magick. She'd been working miracles, and that with only seven kinds of cheese. Still, ever since she'd lost Ionitor, life wasn't the same.

"Well, we can still have some dignity for a lady, I suppose." Ridcully didn't like it, but he gave the nod. McAbre escorted Ozymandias out of the room, not to be seen again.

Rumor had it that a certain Mr. Dibbler had replaced the head cook.
--
Death had been coming silently in the night, so it came as quite the surprise when you all awoke to a loud crash. Running quickly (but not so quickly as to overtake anyone and actually, you know, lead the way), nearly two dozen wizards huddled at the entrance to the Banquet Hall. No bodies again? Well, maybe not so bad. Nothing but a valise-sized hole where something had run through the wall. 7-Zark-7, however, was nowhere to be found.
--
Ozymandias - Mrs. Whitlow:
The lover of the Senior Wrangler. Same rules apply. As the keeper of the kitchens, Mrs. Whitlow knows how to use the powers of Cheese to her utmost advantage. The Lovers will not know one another's identities.

--
7-Zark-7 - Rincewind:
Rincewind is the master of running away. As such, he won't be around the first time anyone tries to lynch him. Water powers are enhanced on Rincewind.

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Re: Day 6: Cut-Me-Own-Throat

Postby DastardlyOldMan » 13 Aug 2013, 20:13:53

Ozymandias - 14 - stigmata, dferrantino, 7-Zark-7, Iron Clad Burrito, Aldax, Hellheart, RaveBomb, Ozymandias, Omega, simple_simon, necklessone, Visigoth, Anzig, Wasabi
San - 8 - Anvilfang, Meta4, FurinMirado, sphenodont, Ryvvn, +3 Power
Anzig - 1 - Clearasday
Iron Clad Burrito - 1 - San
Clearasday - 1 - Mister E. Meat
Omega - 1 - rekard

Missing Vote:
AugenVonSauron

[+] Voting History
rekard votes for Anzig (retracted)
Anzig votes for Ryvvn (retracted)
Omega votes for Ozymandias (retracted)
Hellheart votes for Anzig (retracted)
dferrantino votes for rekard (retracted)
San votes for Iron Clad Burrito
Anzig votes for rekard
stigmata votes for Ozymandias
Anvilfang votes for San
Ozymandias votes for FurinMirado (retracted)
dferrantino votes for Ozymandias
Clearasday votes for Anzig
Omega votes for Visigoth (retracted)
Omega votes for FurinMirado (retracted)
Mister E. Meat votes for Clearasday
RaveBomb votes for Ozymandias (retracted)
necklessone votes for FurinMirado (retracted)
Hellheart votes for RaveBomb (retracted)
sphenodont votes for FurinMirado (retracted)
Meta4 votes for San
7-Zark-7 votes for Ozymandias
Iron Clad Burrito votes for Ozymandias
Hellheart votes for Anzig (retracted)
Ryvvn votes for dferrantino (retracted)
Aldax votes for Ozymandias
RaveBomb votes for rekard (retracted)
simple_simon votes for San (retracted)
simple_simon votes for FurinMirado (retracted)
Omega votes for San
Wasabi votes for FurinMirado (retracted)
FurinMirado votes for San
Wasabi votes for Anzig
rekard votes for Omega
Hellheart votes for Omega (retracted)
Visigoth votes for FurinMirado
sphenodont votes for San
Ryvvn votes for rekard (retracted)
Hellheart votes for FurinMirado (retracted)
Hellheart votes for Ozymandias
simple_simon votes for San
RaveBomb votes for San (retracted)
necklessone votes for San
RaveBomb votes for Ozymandias
Ryvvn votes for San
Ozymandias votes for San

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Re: Day 6: Cut-Me-Own-Throat

Postby Simple_Simon » 13 Aug 2013, 20:17:46

The fuck?
For what it's worth, though, his talking to himself is awfully entertaining.-sphen
You're adorable-Rave
he is a master bullshitter so he could just take things out of his own ass or whatever comes from his mind to argue.-Rekard

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Re: Day 6: Cut-Me-Own-Throat

Postby Hellheart » 13 Aug 2013, 20:19:32

rekard wrote:Dude that's awful logic you don't lynch people you think theyre human. Sigh. So dumb.

I don't believe in throwing away my vote. I tried to get somebody I was comfortable voting for in the top two bandwagons, but at the end of the day I'm going to make the choice I'm more comfortable with. If I think that both leading bandwagons are humans, I'm going to vote for the bandwagon that I think will make the biggest difference. In yesterday's case, if we string up Ozy and he's confirmed human we get an insane amount of information. If we string up San and he's confirmed human OR wolf, we gain nothing from an information standpoint.

Also, my vote ended up not mattering. FurinMirado had 7 retracted votes, but 8 total. Am I the ONLY person who retracted my vote for Furin and then voted Ozy?

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Re: Day 6: Cut-Me-Own-Throat

Postby Omega » 13 Aug 2013, 20:20:49

Well fuck, I knew he was human.

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Re: Day 6: Cut-Me-Own-Throat

Postby Hellheart » 13 Aug 2013, 20:22:24

Well, let's see:

DOM wrote:San - 9 - Anvilfang, Meta4, Omega, FurinMirado, sphenodont, simple_simon, necklessone, Ryvvn, Ozymandias
Ozymandias - 7 - stigmata, dferrantino, 7-Zark-7, Iron Clad Burrito, Aldax, Hellheart, RaveBomb
Anzig - 2 - Clearasday, Wasabi
Iron Clad Burrito - 1 - San
rekard - 1 - Anzig
Clearasday - 1 - Mister E. Meat
Omega - 1 - rekard
FurinMirado - 1 - Visigoth


DastardlyOldMan wrote:Ozymandias - 14 - stigmata, dferrantino, 7-Zark-7, Iron Clad Burrito, Aldax, Hellheart, RaveBomb, Ozymandias, Omega, simple_simon, necklessone, Visigoth, Anzig, Wasabi
San - 8 - Anvilfang, Meta4, FurinMirado, sphenodont, Ryvvn, +3 Power
Anzig - 1 - Clearasday
Iron Clad Burrito - 1 - San
Clearasday - 1 - Mister E. Meat
Omega - 1 - rekard

Missing Vote:
AugenVonSauron

[+] Voting History
rekard votes for Anzig (retracted)
Anzig votes for Ryvvn (retracted)
Omega votes for Ozymandias (retracted)
Hellheart votes for Anzig (retracted)
dferrantino votes for rekard (retracted)
San votes for Iron Clad Burrito
Anzig votes for rekard
stigmata votes for Ozymandias
Anvilfang votes for San
Ozymandias votes for FurinMirado (retracted)
dferrantino votes for Ozymandias
Clearasday votes for Anzig
Omega votes for Visigoth (retracted)
Omega votes for FurinMirado (retracted)
Mister E. Meat votes for Clearasday
RaveBomb votes for Ozymandias (retracted)
necklessone votes for FurinMirado (retracted)
Hellheart votes for RaveBomb (retracted)
sphenodont votes for FurinMirado (retracted)
Meta4 votes for San
7-Zark-7 votes for Ozymandias
Iron Clad Burrito votes for Ozymandias
Hellheart votes for Anzig (retracted)
Ryvvn votes for dferrantino (retracted)
Aldax votes for Ozymandias
RaveBomb votes for rekard (retracted)
simple_simon votes for San (retracted)
simple_simon votes for FurinMirado (retracted)
Omega votes for San
Wasabi votes for FurinMirado (retracted)
FurinMirado votes for San
Wasabi votes for Anzig
rekard votes for Omega
Hellheart votes for Omega (retracted)
Visigoth votes for FurinMirado
sphenodont votes for San
Ryvvn votes for rekard (retracted)
Hellheart votes for FurinMirado (retracted)
Hellheart votes for Ozymandias
simple_simon votes for San
RaveBomb votes for San (retracted)
necklessone votes for San
RaveBomb votes for Ozymandias
Ryvvn votes for San
Ozymandias votes for San


The following people voted for FurinMirado:
Ozymandias
Omega
necklessone
sphenodont
simple_simon
Wasabi
Visigoth
Hellheart

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Re: Day 6: Cut-Me-Own-Throat

Postby Hellheart » 13 Aug 2013, 20:24:41

DingDingDing we have a winner! I honestly thought FM might have a MEM-type ability (adds to his vote), but obviously that was not the case here.

EDIT3: Why the hell am I speaking for him? He has to answer for his own crimes.
Last edited by Hellheart on 13 Aug 2013, 20:27:38, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Day 6: Cut-Me-Own-Throat

Postby stigmata » 13 Aug 2013, 20:25:57

Fourteen including a redirected self-vote?

Ook.

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Re: Day 6: Cut-Me-Own-Throat

Postby Visigoth » 13 Aug 2013, 20:27:40

So I guess his experiment was a success and not the failure he implied seeing as anyone that voted on him at any point had their vote moved. The question then becomes did he control that action or was some else directing it. Almost sounds a bit like Simple_Simon's mirror action in that votes on FurinMirado were reflected on to someone else.

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Re: Day 6: Cut-Me-Own-Throat

Postby Ryvvn » 13 Aug 2013, 20:29:21

Hellheart wrote:DingDingDing we have a winner! I honestly thought FM might have a MEM-type ability (adds to his vote), but obviously that was not the case here.

Chances are it was a corrupted ability because he voted for San, although that's one really odd corruption. I still feel like stringing up FM, but I suppose we can hear what he has to say.


Seems poor Ozy was done in by his own experimental hubris.

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Re: Day 6: Cut-Me-Own-Throat

Postby sphenodont » 13 Aug 2013, 20:29:44

Mine didn't, for the record. Not sure what that means, though.

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Re: Day 6: Cut-Me-Own-Throat

Postby stigmata » 13 Aug 2013, 20:30:11

Did he specifically ask Ozy to vote for him yesterday? I have to run in a sec, but it could be that the power is activated against whoever votes first against him on the day that he chooses to use it.

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Re: Day 6: Cut-Me-Own-Throat

Postby rekard » 13 Aug 2013, 20:32:32

Hellheart wrote:
rekard wrote:Dude that's awful logic you don't lynch people you think theyre human. Sigh. So dumb.

I don't believe in throwing away my vote. I tried to get somebody I was comfortable voting for in the top two bandwagons, but at the end of the day I'm going to make the choice I'm more comfortable with. If I think that both leading bandwagons are humans, I'm going to vote for the bandwagon that I think will make the biggest difference. In yesterday's case, if we string up Ozy and he's confirmed human we get an insane amount of information. If we string up San and he's confirmed human OR wolf, we gain nothing from an information standpoint.

Also, my vote ended up not mattering. FurinMirado had 7 retracted votes, but 8 total. Am I the ONLY person who retracted my vote for Furin and then voted Ozy?


No. You attempt to create an alternative. Voting for someone you think is human is the same as throwing away your vote.It shows you lack conviction and those types of actions only end up helping the wolves. You only contribute to the noise of bandwagons, and in the end achieve nothing like ywsterday. You do NOT have to vote for a major bandwagon for votes to matter. This kind of argument actually makes you much more suspicious taking in account the garbage votes you have been doing, basically contributing to various human lynches now. Even if human, doing that will just cause you to get lynched in the future. Have you seen your vote record? It is one of the worst now. So food for thought for the future.
Last edited by rekard on 13 Aug 2013, 20:45:51, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Day 6: Cut-Me-Own-Throat

Postby Visigoth » 13 Aug 2013, 20:33:33

stigmata wrote:Did he specifically ask Ozy to vote for him yesterday? I have to run in a sec, but it could be that the power is activated against whoever votes first against him on the day that he chooses to use it.
Yes. He first implied that Ozymandias would be sorry if he didn't vote on FurinMirado and then later asked Ozymandias to be a test subject and to vote on him which Ozymandias did. And since Ozymandias was the first to vote on FurinMirado that could explain why our votes on him were reflected to Ozymandias instead of where FurinMirado had voted.

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Re: Day 6: Cut-Me-Own-Throat

Postby rekard » 13 Aug 2013, 20:35:41

So if Furin is a wolf, this was a sacrifice to assure a wolf didn't get lynched yesterday? That was my first impression if that's what happened.

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Re: Day 6: Cut-Me-Own-Throat

Postby Mister E. Meat » 13 Aug 2013, 20:37:34

I'm not going to say I told you so. I think Hellheart is onto something.
FurinMurado retracted, you've got some 'splainin' to do. I was reasonably sure you were human but you just went and stabbed Ozy in the back for what?
Last edited by Mister E. Meat on 14 Aug 2013, 10:22:33, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Day 6: Cut-Me-Own-Throat

Postby rekard » 13 Aug 2013, 20:38:11

Well simon said his mirror was stolen. Hmm. That matches.

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Re: Day 6: Cut-Me-Own-Throat

Postby Omega » 13 Aug 2013, 20:38:28

I think Furin's science experiment had unintended consequences. (Half Life 3 Comfirmed!)

The question remains of course whether or not he was a wolf!

For the record, I do not think he intentionally put those votes on Ozy...

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Re: Day 6: Cut-Me-Own-Throat

Postby rekard » 13 Aug 2013, 20:44:51

He must have known something was happening. Don't jump to his defense too early Omega. Your fur shows. At least wait for some votes to appear on him.

Furin switched from Mortus to sphenodont on Day 3 when Mortus had 3 votws arguing paranoia. If Furin is a wolf, this also might mean that whoever voted for Furin yesterday is not necessarily human.

Worst is if San is also a wolf, then votes for San yesterday don't mean a thing xuz wolves could have known what was about to happen.

Edit: Typing on a tablet is hard. But well, seems Furin might be a bit too wolfy. Omega up there too. When he is a wolf he attempts to defend his buddies in a subtle way. I saw how he did it with DOM. Just a quick suggestion to the ear. To calm the waters.
Last edited by rekard on 13 Aug 2013, 20:48:43, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Day 6: Cut-Me-Own-Throat

Postby Omega » 13 Aug 2013, 20:46:59

Fur? Please. I'm as clean as anyone here. I've never even gotten a power. But please, put your vote where your snark is.

[e] oh I'm sorry, I forgot, per your post yesterday, I'm not supposed to talk or something.

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Re: Day 6: Cut-Me-Own-Throat

Postby rekard » 13 Aug 2013, 20:54:07

There is a vote for Omega yesterday wasn't it? Oh look. It's me. I will vote whenever I want. Thank you very much. Although I gotta say "the fur shows" is a kinda cool smack talk isn't it?

Zark is dead now, but sadly most of his votes were for a human. But there could be a key on the bandwagon on him earlier.

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Re: Day 6: Cut-Me-Own-Throat

Postby DastardlyOldMan » 13 Aug 2013, 20:54:44

((Power PMs have been sent. If you're expecting something and didn't get it, let me know. Again. :D ))

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Re: Day 6: Cut-Me-Own-Throat

Postby Mister E. Meat » 13 Aug 2013, 21:00:01

Omega wrote:Fur? Please. I'm as clean as anyone here. I've never even gotten a power. But please, put your vote where your snark is.

[e] oh I'm sorry, I forgot, per your post yesterday, I'm not supposed to talk or something.

Still not? I targeted you last night since I'm pretty sure you're legit.

'Course I thought the same on Furin and now I'm eating my words. Anyhow, with Ozy confirmed human, it's more likely than not that stigmata is too.

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Re: Day 6: Cut-Me-Own-Throat

Postby rekard » 13 Aug 2013, 21:27:11

First a correction. Furin didn't switch to sphenodont after Mortus had more votes. He switched before. But his switch occurred after two events.

On day 3, votes were like this:

7-Zark-7 - 5 - Ozymandias, necklessone, RaveBomb, Iron Clad Burrito, Anzig
Mortus - 2 - rekard, FurinMirado
dferrantino - 2 - Smirker, AugenVonSauron
Mister E. Meat - 2 - Meta4, Omega
sphenodont - 2 - Ionitor, stigmata
Visigoth - 2 - San, Hellheart
Wasabi - 2 - Visigoth, Anvilfang
rekard - 1 - Ryvvn

That was with 1.5 hours remaining.

After that vote, Wasabi put a third vote on Visigoth. Then I did my clumsy dumb thrid vote attempt on Mortus. What happened next?

Hellheart switched from Visigoth to sphenodont with one hour remaining. Furin switched from Mortus to sphenodont at about the same time.

Hellheart argued this to change his vote:

I'll switch my vote to Sphenodont, since both of the votes on him right now are (probably) human non-elementals


Which in hindsight is pretty poor reasoning because what does that relate to possible wolfitude? Not only they were not confirmed humans but if probable humans vote for someone, why the heck does that matter? He was in a good bandwagon to achieve a "tie" but refrained fro that and switched to sphenodont instead of having a cool vote on Visigoth. ow if Hellheart and both Furin are wolves that could point to a Visigoth wolf. They could have tried to save him, specially since it was also after I attempted to vote Mortus. Convenient timing.

Someone may argue "But rekard, Furin and Hellheart switched too close to each other to be wolves". Mistakes always happen, but it wouldn't be the first time and I've seen worse happen.

So for now Retracted. Was Hellheart. Also his vote record is horrible.

See Omega? Things were in motion. You replied too fast. But I can still vote for you if you want.
Last edited by rekard on 14 Aug 2013, 17:59:06, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Day 6: Cut-Me-Own-Throat

Postby Omega » 13 Aug 2013, 21:28:37

Mister E. Meat wrote:
Omega wrote:Fur? Please. I'm as clean as anyone here. I've never even gotten a power. But please, put your vote where your snark is.

[e] oh I'm sorry, I forgot, per your post yesterday, I'm not supposed to talk or something.

Still not? I targeted you last night since I'm pretty sure you're legit.

'Course I thought the same on Furin and now I'm eating my words. Anyhow, with Ozy confirmed human, it's more likely than not that stigmata is too.


MEM, I was referring to rekard's comments in this post. Apparently when I speak I'm a wolf, or something, I'm not really sure.

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Re: Day 6: Cut-Me-Own-Throat

Postby rekard » 13 Aug 2013, 21:33:42

Ah no. It's how you phrase your words when you are a wolf. Subtle enough to appear indecisive, but still respectable. But we'll see about that.

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Re: Day 6: Cut-Me-Own-Throat

Postby Hellheart » 13 Aug 2013, 21:34:53

I want to say that I agree with almost all of Ozy's list. The only people on that list that I thought were suspicious are Anzig (which as long as Ozy wasn't talking about Zark, and he probably wasn't because Zark corrected him, means I was wrong), Furin, and Omega. I was also ambivalent towards Spheno, but I'm certainly willing to give that read the benefit of the doubt.

I think Furin is a good start. I don't like the idea of voting for San just because he was "saved," since a lot of those votes may have been wolves who knew their votes would be redirected onto Ozy. I refuse to vote for anyone on Ozy's list right now other than Furin. Other than that, have a good reason and I'd be on board with a second bandwagon in case Furin somehow manages to explain what happened.

I also want to point out what Ozy was probably referencing about me. I asked whether FurinMirado got a power when Smirker revealed fire and revealed that he had targeted FM. I targeted FurinMirado on days 0-2 before I started to feel like he could be a wolf. I then targeted Ionitor (mauled), necklessone, and I'm not going to say yesterday's target other than I'm pretty confident that he's not a wolf.

Since Ozy is no longer around, I'm going to take a break for awhile and let more experienced players figure out what's going on and how to proceed from here.

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Re: Day 6: Cut-Me-Own-Throat

Postby stigmata » 13 Aug 2013, 21:38:54

FurinMirado needs to provide some answers.

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Re: Day 6: Cut-Me-Own-Throat

Postby Ryvvn » 13 Aug 2013, 22:04:18

I have a hard time believing Furin knew or was fully responsible for what happened; if it was that straightforward, clearly everyone would vote to lynch him the next day. Unless he was responsible and just felt very strongly that Ozy was a wolf. I do agree that we deserve some sort of explanation, but I'll hold off on jumping on the Furin wagon forming.

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Re: Day 6: Cut-Me-Own-Throat

Postby Hellheart » 13 Aug 2013, 22:42:15

rekard wrote:So for now Hellheart. Also his vote record is horrible.

Ah, yes. I hide my wolfishness by voting more than anybody else, saying and doing things that look like I don't know what I'm doing, and by becoming much more active as a counterpoint to Ozy the same day he ends up getting superlynched.

I must be the worst wolf ever.

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Re: Day 6: Cut-Me-Own-Throat

Postby rekard » 13 Aug 2013, 22:50:39

Well yeah. You wouldn't be the first wolf that does that kind of things. Zark is a bad wolf for example. He talks and talks and votes, but gets detected various times due to forced logic and bad votes.

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Re: Day 6: Cut-Me-Own-Throat

Postby Hellheart » 13 Aug 2013, 23:02:19

rekard wrote:Well yeah. You wouldn't be the first wolf that does that kind of things. Zark is a bad wolf for example. He talks and talks and votes, but gets detected various times due to forced logic and bad votes.

shrugs

Think what you will. I can't change your mind. All I can do is try my best to learn how to make reads and try my best to get things right as time goes on.

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Re: Day 6: Cut-Me-Own-Throat

Postby rekard » 13 Aug 2013, 23:04:28

But yeah, being the" worst wolf ever" isn't proof of innocence. It's not a surprising wolf argument.

At the same time, Furin could have been targeted with a Shadow Word. So Hellheart, by confessing you casting your word on Furin, you have also confessed you had a role on Furin's power from Day 1. Who else cast ampower on Furin on night 0?

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Re: Day 6: Cut-Me-Own-Throat

Postby rekard » 13 Aug 2013, 23:24:19

Hellheart wrote:
rekard wrote:Well yeah. You wouldn't be the first wolf that does that kind of things. Zark is a bad wolf for example. He talks and talks and votes, but gets detected various times due to forced logic and bad votes.

shrugs

Think what you will. I can't change your mind. All I can do is try my best to learn how to make reads and try my best to get things right as time goes on.


Actually you can change my mind. It's not like I am dead set on anything. It's only one vote. But you can't deny that with that vote record, you don't look good at all with vote analysis. And saying you are a "bad wolf" hasn't really worked in the past.

Dude, you have voted for to lynch four confirmed humans with the argument that you want your vote to "matter". Even admitted you thought Ozy was human and still voted for him.
But the day is young and there are other people in the game still.

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Re: Day 6: Cut-Me-Own-Throat

Postby Hellheart » 14 Aug 2013, 02:05:13

rekard wrote:Dude, you have voted for to lynch four confirmed humans with the argument that you want your vote to "matter". Even admitted you thought Ozy was human and still voted for him.
But the day is young and there are other people in the game still.

I feel like you have unrealistic expectations concerning the ability of new players to get reads on people. Wolf reads, at least early on, are mainly based on player tendencies, and I don't know what anybody's tendencies are. That part of the game draws strong comparisons to poker - you can't call the new guy an idiot for calling rock bets on the river or folding to a bluff that a player always makes in a certain situation. It takes a ton of hands to get a feel for more than half of the players at any 10-person poker table, and there's triple that in this game. I don't have a confident read on more than half of the players that are still around. Without a confident read I'm left either making an RNG vote or using some other justification to feel okay with the vote I finally end up settling on.

I voted for Rictus on Day 1 because that put him one vote ahead of Stigmata, whom I believed was the Librarian and I interpreted the rules to mean that he was human. My Day 5 vote was out of frustration towards Ozy more than anything else because he defended or ignored everyone I was pushing for and refused to defend the one guy I was really pushing against on the first day that I was trying to contribute to the discussion. Those are the two votes that I had strong feelings for, while the 3 votes in the middle were the result of me being totally lost as to whom I should vote for.

It looks like Furin is a wolf, so I feel like my Sphenodont vote on Day 3 was also a mistake (that +1 power vote was almost certainly from Furin and I don't think he'd do that to a fellow wolf). I'm batting 0 so far, but it's not for lack of trying.

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Re: Day 6: Cut-Me-Own-Throat

Postby necklessone » 14 Aug 2013, 02:28:41

So which seems more likely: Furin used a power that would obviously point to him to kill the person who claimed to form a HA, or Furin's power was corrupted and controlled by wolves?

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Re: Day 6: Cut-Me-Own-Throat

Postby necklessone » 14 Aug 2013, 03:31:48

I have vote related reasons I'll post once I get to work, but [color=#0000FF]RETRACTION stigmata[/color]. If people still suspect there was a wolf non-elemental...well, it's him or simon.
Last edited by necklessone on 14 Aug 2013, 18:17:48, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Day 6: Cut-Me-Own-Throat

Postby necklessone » 14 Aug 2013, 03:39:09

Day 1
Rictus - 7 - rekard, Iron Clad Burrito, Mortus, Blindsniper83, Hellheart, stigmata, FurinMirado
stigmata - 5 - RaveBomb, sphenodont, Ionitor, Rictus, Anzig
Ionitor - 3 - Wasabi, Omega, necklessone
FurinMirado - 3 - Visigoth, twdog, Smirker
RaveBomb - 2 - Nitestorm, 7-Zark-7
Iron Clad Burrito - 2 - Meta4, Mister E. Meat
San - 2 - Ryvvn, Aldax
Ryvvn - 1 - San
rekard - 1 - Anvilfang

Votes not submitted:

AugenVonSauron
Clearasday


[+] history
stigmata votes for Hellheart (retracted)
Nitestorm votes for RaveBomb
Ozymandias votes for stigmata (retracted)
rekard votes for Rictus
San votes for Ryvvn
Ionitor votes for Wasabi (retracted)
RaveBomb votes for stigmata
dferrantino votes for Ozymandias (retracted)
Wasabi votes for Ionitor
Omega votes for San (retracted)
twdog votes for RaveBomb (retracted)
Meta4 votes for Iron Clad Burrito
Ryvvn votes for San
stigmata votes for RaveBomb (retracted)
Iron Clad Burrito votes for Rictus
Mister E. Meat votes for Iron Clad Burrito
Aldax votes for San
sphenodont votes for stigmata
Anvilfang votes for rekard
Visigoth votes for FurinMirado
Ionitor votes for stigmata
7-Zark-7 votes for RaveBomb
Omega votes for Ionitor
Mortus votes for Rictus
twdog votes for FurinMirado
simple_simon votes for Ozymandias (retracted)
Blindsniper83 votes for Rictus
Anzig votes for Ozymandias (retracted)
Hellheart votes for Rictus
Rictus votes for Wasabi (retracted)
necklessone votes for Ionitor
Smirker votes for FurinMirado
FurinMirado votes for Ionitor
Rictus votes for stigmata
stigmata votes for Rictus
Anzig votes for stigmata



Day 2
Blindsniper83 - 14 - Mister E. Meat, twdog, AugenVonSauron, FurinMirado, Hellheart, Ryvvn, RaveBomb, Power-Related Votes +7
Mister E. Meat - 8 - Meta4, Iron Clad Burrito, necklessone, Omega, Blindsniper83, Ozymandias, Ionitor, Power-Related Votes +1
Ionitor - 4 - Aldax, simple_simon, Mortus, stigmata
twdog - 2 - dferrantino, sphenodont
Omega - 2 - Visigoth, rekard
Smirker - 2 - San, Anvilfang
FurinMirado - 1 - Anzig
dferrantino - 1 - Smirker
Ozymandias - 1 - 7-Zark-7
Anvilfang - 1 - Wasabi
Clearasday - 1 - Penalty x1

Missing Votes: Clearasday

[+] Vote History
rekard votes for FurinMirado (retracted)
Ozymandias votes for stigmata (retracted)
Ryvvn votes for rekard (retracted)
Hellheart votes for Ozymandias (retracted)
RaveBomb votes for Ozymandias (retracted)
Meta4 votes for Mister E. Meat
Ionitor votes for Aldax (retracted)
stigmata votes for Ozymandias (retracted)
Mister E. Meat votes for Blindsniper83
dferrantino votes for twdog
Anzig votes for FurinMirado
Aldax votes for Ionitor
Iron Clad Burrito votes for Mister E. Meat
twdog votes for Blindsniper83
Omega votes for Ionitor (retracted)
Visigoth votes for Omega
sphenodont votes for twdog
Smirker votes for dferrantino
rekard votes for Omega
necklessone votes for Mister E. Meat
simple_simon votes for Ionitor
AugenVonSauron votes for Blindsniper83
RaveBomb votes for Mister E. Meat (retracted)
7-Zark-7 votes for Ozymandias
San votes for Smirker
Anvilfang votes for Smirker
Wasabi votes for Ionitor (retracted)
FurinMirado votes for Blindsniper83
Blindsniper83 votes for Ozymandias (retracted)
Ozymandias votes for Blindsniper83 (retracted)
Ionitor votes for Blindsniper83 (retracted)
Mortus votes for Ionitor
Hellheart votes for Ionitor (retracted)
Wasabi votes for Anvilfang
Omega votes for Mister E. Meat
Hellheart votes for Mister E. Meat (retracted)
stigmata votes for Ionitor
Blindsniper83 votes for Mister E. Meat
Hellheart votes for Blindsniper83
Ryvvn votes for Blindsniper83
Ozymandias votes for Mister E. Meat
Ionitor votes for Mister E. Meat
RaveBomb votes for Blindsniper83



Day 3
7-Zark-7 - 8 - Ozymandias, necklessone, RaveBomb, Iron Clad Burrito, Anzig, +3 Power
Mortus - 5 - rekard, sphenodont, Ryvvn, Mister E. Meat, + 1 Power
sphenodont - 5 - Ionitor, stigmata, Hellheart, FurinMirado, +1 Power
dferrantino - 2 - Smirker, AugenVonSauron
Mister E. Meat - 3 - Meta4, Omega, +1 Power
Visigoth - 2 - San, Wasabi
Wasabi - 2 - Visigoth, Anvilfang
Hellheart - 1 - Aldax
Smirker - 1 - Clearasday
Ozymandias - 1 - 7-Zark-7


[+] Vote History
rekard votes for Mortus
Ryvvn votes for rekard (retracted)
Smirker votes for dferrantino
Meta4 votes for Mister E. Meat
Ionitor votes for sphenodont
San votes for Visigoth
Visigoth votes for Wasabi
Ozymandias votes for 7-Zark-7
AugenVonSauron votes for dferrantino
necklessone votes for 7-Zark-7
RaveBomb votes for 7-Zark-7
Anvilfang votes for Wasabi
FurinMirado votes for Mortus (retracted)
stigmata votes for sphenodont
Hellheart votes for Visigoth (retracted)
Omega votes for Mister E. Meat
Iron Clad Burrito votes for 7-Zark-7
Anzig votes for 7-Zark-7
Aldax votes for Hellheart
Wasabi votes for Visigoth
Clearasday votes for Smirker
Hellheart votes for sphenodont
FurinMirado votes for sphenodont
7-Zark-7 votes for sphenodont (retracted)
sphenodont votes for Mortus
7-Zark-7 votes for Ozymandias
Ryvvn votes for Mortus
Mister E. Meat votes for Mortus



Day 4
Smirker - 11 - necklessone, FurinMirado, RaveBomb, Ozymandias, Anvilfang, Aldax, Hellheart, Omega, dferrantino, simple_simon, Mister E. Meat
Anzig - 3 - 7-Zark-7, Visigoth, rekard
Iron Clad Burrito - 3 - Meta4, Anzig, AugenVonSauron
Ozymandias - 2 - stigmata, Ryvvn
AugenVonSauron - 1 - San
rekard - 1 - Iron Clad Burrito
RaveBomb - 1 - Smirker

Missed Votes:
Clearasday
sphenodont
Wasabi

[+] Vote History
rekard votes for Iron Clad Burrito (retracted)
Ozymandias votes for stigmata (retracted)
San votes for AugenVonSauron
Smirker votes for Ozymandias (retracted)
RaveBomb votes for Ozymandias (retracted)
stigmata votes for Ozymandias
Ryvvn votes for Ozymandias
necklessone votes for Smirker
FurinMirado votes for Smirker
RaveBomb votes for Smirker
Mister E. Meat votes for RaveBomb (retracted)
Ozymandias votes for Smirker
Anvilfang votes for Smirker
7-Zark-7 votes for Anzig
Iron Clad Burrito votes for rekard
Aldax votes for Smirker
Meta4 votes for Iron Clad Burrito
Anzig votes for Iron Clad Burrito
AugenVonSauron votes for Iron Clad Burrito
Visigoth votes for Anzig
Hellheart votes for Smirker
Omega votes for Smirker
rekard votes for Anzig
dferrantino votes for Smirker
Smirker votes for RaveBomb
simple_simon votes for Smirker
Mister E. Meat votes for Smirker



Day 5
San - 9 - Anvilfang, Meta4, Omega, FurinMirado, sphenodont, simple_simon, necklessone, Ryvvn, Ozymandias
Ozymandias - 7 - stigmata, dferrantino, 7-Zark-7, Iron Clad Burrito, Aldax, Hellheart, RaveBomb
Anzig - 2 - Clearasday, Wasabi
Iron Clad Burrito - 1 - San
rekard - 1 - Anzig
Clearasday - 1 - Mister E. Meat
Omega - 1 - rekard
FurinMirado - 1 - Visigoth

[+] Voting History
rekard votes for Anzig (retracted)
Anzig votes for Ryvvn (retracted)
Omega votes for Ozymandias (retracted)
Hellheart votes for Anzig (retracted)
dferrantino votes for rekard (retracted)
San votes for Iron Clad Burrito
Anzig votes for rekard
stigmata votes for Ozymandias
Anvilfang votes for San
Ozymandias votes for FurinMirado (retracted)
dferrantino votes for Ozymandias
Clearasday votes for Anzig
Omega votes for Visigoth (retracted)
Omega votes for FurinMirado (retracted)
Mister E. Meat votes for Clearasday
RaveBomb votes for Ozymandias (retracted)
necklessone votes for FurinMirado (retracted)
Hellheart votes for RaveBomb (retracted)
sphenodont votes for FurinMirado (retracted)
Meta4 votes for San
7-Zark-7 votes for Ozymandias
Iron Clad Burrito votes for Ozymandias
Hellheart votes for Anzig (retracted)
Ryvvn votes for dferrantino (retracted)
Aldax votes for Ozymandias
RaveBomb votes for rekard (retracted)
simple_simon votes for San (retracted)
simple_simon votes for FurinMirado (retracted)
Omega votes for San
Wasabi votes for FurinMirado (retracted)
FurinMirado votes for San
Wasabi votes for Anzig
rekard votes for Omega
Hellheart votes for Omega (retracted)
Visigoth votes for FurinMirado
sphenodont votes for San
Ryvvn votes for rekard (retracted)
Hellheart votes for FurinMirado (retracted)
Hellheart votes for Ozymandias
simple_simon votes for San
RaveBomb votes for San (retracted)
necklessone votes for San
RaveBomb votes for Ozymandias
Ryvvn votes for San
Ozymandias votes for San

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Re: Day 6: Cut-Me-Own-Throat

Postby FurinMirado » 14 Aug 2013, 03:42:54

I should have seen this coming and prepared a post. My real, true ability had 3 parts:

1. I could PM anyone that voted for me on Day 5 or any previous day. This PM was 2-way communication. I made a point of PMing everyone that voted for me yesterday and on previous days. Some of it was nonsense, some of it was positive information sharing. Everyone I PM'd can verify this.

2. I choose one of the people that voted for me on Day 5 or any previous day and I get to know their elemental affiliation. I don't get to know whether they are corrupted or not, but still worth trying. Unfortunately I have not received a PM with this information. I believe this has backfired and the wolves may now know my elemental affiliation or that of sphenodont, who I targeted with this part of the ability.

3. I can switch the votes of anyone that I PM, which was everyone that has ever voted for me. I knew this could backfire if I used it so I held it back as the "nuclear option" in the event that I needed to save myself. Ozymandias told me he would save himself with his +3 vote ability. By the end of the day I did not send the PM to switch any votes, so I believe the wolves had full control of the vote manipulation and decided to dogpile Ozy. Two people I talked to yesterday know about this 3rd part because I confessed it to them in a late-day PM. In the event that I was mauled I wanted someone to be able to come forward with an explanation.


My power description involved a badger fighting with a goat on an icy tundra. That may mean I was targeted by both Earth and Shadow Earth. I'm not sure if that really helps us, but now you know.


Someone thought I was the target of a maul the other night and protected, so I assumed they would make another try at me tonight. In an effort to dissuade them, I publicly lied about having GA protection last night. There is one person that knows the truth about my full power, but I will ask them to not come forward. If I don't get lynched today I may very well get mauled tonight. Supporting me may just make you a maul target.


So that's what happened. Do as you will. I have already transferred some key information over to certain people that I trust 100%, so the damage to the wolves has been done.

Going to take a break and do some vote analysis. Ozy has the list whittled down to 11 people and we should be focusing on those 11. We can suspect people on his "Probably Human" list when it is absolutely necessary, but at this point there are way too many wolves left.

(Edited to clarify which list I was referring to)

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Re: Day 6: Cut-Me-Own-Throat

Postby necklessone » 14 Aug 2013, 03:55:08

FurinMirado wrote:I should have seen this coming and prepared a post. My real, true ability had 3 parts:

1. I could PM anyone that voted for me on Day 5 or any previous day. This PM was 2-way communication. I made a point of PMing everyone that voted for me yesterday and on previous days. Some of it was nonsense, some of it was positive information sharing. Everyone I PM'd can verify this.

2. I choose one of the people that voted for me on Day 5 or any previous day and I get to know their elemental affiliation. I don't get to know whether they are corrupted or not, but still worth trying. Unfortunately I have not received a PM with this information. I believe this has backfired and the wolves may now know my elemental affiliation or that of sphenodont, who I targeted with this part of the ability.

3. I can switch the votes of anyone that I PM, which was everyone that has ever voted for me. I knew this could backfire if I used it so I held it back as the "nuclear option" in the event that I needed to save myself. Ozymandias told me he would save himself with his +3 vote ability. By the end of the day I did not send the PM to switch any votes, so I believe the wolves had full control of the vote manipulation and decided to dogpile Ozy. Two people I talked to yesterday know about this 3rd part because I confessed it to them in a late-day PM. In the event that I was mauled I wanted someone to be able to come forward with an explanation.


My power description involved a badger fighting with a goat on an icy tundra. That may mean I was targeted by both Earth and Shadow Earth. I'm not sure if that really helps us, but now you know.


Someone thought I was the target of a maul the other night and protected, so I assumed they would make another try at me tonight. In an effort to dissuade them, I publicly lied about having GA protection last night. There is one person that knows the truth about my full power, but I will ask them to not come forward. If I don't get lynched today I may very well get mauled tonight. Supporting me may just make you a maul target.


So that's what happened. Do as you will. I have already transferred some key information over to certain people that I trust 100%, so the damage to the wolves has been done.

Going to take a break and do some vote analysis. Ozy has the list whittled down to 11 people and we should be focusing on those 11. We can suspect people on his "Probably Human" list when it is absolutely necessary, but at this point there are way too many wolves left.

(Edited to clarify which list I was referring to)

Your power is more likely water (the ice), earth (the badger), and cheese (the goat). Plus a corrupting element; I don't know if it would have to be one of those three or if corrupting elements aren't listed in the description; no mention of air, which would seem to be key for the seer part. Water (PM), earth (defending yourself), and cheese (vote manipulation) all make sense, though.

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Re: Day 6: Cut-Me-Own-Throat

Postby FurinMirado » 14 Aug 2013, 04:01:32

necklessone wrote:Your power is more likely water (the ice), earth (the badger), and cheese (the goat). Plus a corrupting element; I don't know if it would have to be one of those three or if corrupting elements aren't listed in the description; no mention of air, which would seem to be key for the seer part. Water (PM), earth (defending yourself), and cheese (vote manipulation) all make sense, though.


That has baffled me as well. I'm wondering if it could have been Corrupted Air. There was no mention of winds, just the frozen tundra. So I don't know where the vision ability came from. I checked the PM again and it was actually the spirit forms of those two animals. I glazed over that as flavor text (or flavour if you prefer) but maybe it's relevant?

Working on the list of 11 that weren't on Ozy's list. I'm finding some interesting vote history so far. I'll post my analysis in a little bit.

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Re: Day 6: Cut-Me-Own-Throat

Postby San » 14 Aug 2013, 04:38:26

San steals Aldax's cookies ... NOM NOM NOM....

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Re: Day 6: Cut-Me-Own-Throat

Postby FurinMirado » 14 Aug 2013, 05:07:27

So we have 11 people that were not on Ozy's "Probable Humans" list:

AugenVonSauron
Clearasday
dferrantino
Iron Clad Burrito
Meta4
RaveBomb
San
simple_simon
stigmata
Visigoth
Wasabi

I'm going to whittle this list down to 4 people that all voted for Ozymandias yesterday:

dferrantino
Iron Clad Burrito
Ravebomb
stigmata


We had 31 people, so dividing it evenly among 5 elements you get 6 of each element, remainder 1. That can't be right, since we have already seen 3 non-Elemental roles. So make it 5 of each element, remainder 6. That means there is one non-Elemental that has not yet claimed. Clearasday has not been active so he could be the role and unintentionally staying quiet. Or the last role is a wolf keeping quiet. I do not believe stigmata is a non-Elemental wolf.

That leaves:

dferrantino
Iron Clad Burrito
Ravebomb

Ravebomb suspiciously switched his vote at the last minute, which is not something a wolf would have done. First, because wolves know to avoid last-minute vote switching unless they can claim self defense or some special circumstance (like last-minute Vig shot or role claim). Second, as a wolf he would have known there was a massive dogpile coming on Ozymandias. There was no reason to switch. It didn't make a difference.

That leaves:
dferrantino
Iron Clad Burrito

dferrantino's reason for voting Ozy: None given (unless I missed it?). But he seemed upset that he didn't get any powers. He seemed to think that was a wolf ploy.
ICB's reason for voting Ozy: It's Day 5 and he's still alive


So I have two people that voted for Ozy without any solid reason and they both just happen to be on the Unknown list. Looking back to Day 4 I see dferrantino picked up on the fact that there is a HA and publicly announced it. I'm thinking a wolf may have wanted to keep the HA a secret so legit humans wouldn't attempt to join it and any PMs from the HA would be viewed with more suspicion. Plus he volunteered for a "suicide mission" which does not see very Wolfy.

I can't say anything positive for Retracted - was Iron Clad Burrito which is enough to condemn him at this point. Unfortunately I actually need to start work at some point today. :flail:

I'll be back during my lunch break to answer any remaining questions.
Last edited by FurinMirado on 14 Aug 2013, 08:58:16, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Day 6: Cut-Me-Own-Throat

Postby rekard » 14 Aug 2013, 05:19:23

Hellheart wrote:
rekard wrote:Dude, you have voted for to lynch four confirmed humans with the argument that you want your vote to "matter". Even admitted you thought Ozy was human and still voted for him.
But the day is young and there are other people in the game still.

I feel like you have unrealistic expectations concerning the ability of new players to get reads on people. Wolf reads, at least early on, are mainly based on player tendencies, and I don't know what anybody's tendencies are. That part of the game draws strong comparisons to poker - you can't call the new guy an idiot for calling rock bets on the river or folding to a bluff that a player always makes in a certain situation. It takes a ton of hands to get a feel for more than half of the players at any 10-person poker table, and there's triple that in this game. I don't have a confident read on more than half of the players that are still around. Without a confident read I'm left either making an RNG vote or using some other justification to feel okay with the vote I finally end up settling on.
.


Who is talking about reads on your accusation? I'm only sayin vote analysis coldly puts you in a wolfy situation. You being new doesn't matter in that regard. Being new doesn't mean you can't be accused of being a wolf. I don't have expectations but I stated observations of your vote behavior. You were advised to a degree you didn't have to make ties or to have your vote "matter" forcefully everyday, but you did what you wanted.

Being new is just being new. You can be either new human or new wolf, but it's not really an excuse of one being the other. Also you have like one vote. Look for other targets then that could help you instead of some sort of automatic defense you are doing. Daximus did some similar voting mistakes like you on his first game and he was a wolf. But eyah, think of a better thing or even better, ignore it if all you have against you is one vote.

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Re: Day 6: Cut-Me-Own-Throat

Postby rekard » 14 Aug 2013, 05:29:12

Visigoth can also be a good target and has voted away from being a decision maker and has been carefully tucked away on safe choices. That Furin vote seemed like just a thrown vote to "experiment" with Furin. Also his one post status can lend him to be sort of hidden.

At the same time Furin, don't take Ozy's list as a main point of doing analysis. You can do your own, no need to use Ozy as a lead, as he can be wrong. And just filterijg those that voted for Ozy does not make sense. Why does that matter for your analysis. Even then, neck has put vote lists conveniently. Why not use them better in complement with that list of humans?

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Re: Day 6: Cut-Me-Own-Throat

Postby rekard » 14 Aug 2013, 05:31:42

Ravebomb has not been playful this game. He has been making decisions on his vote. Whenever he feels less chaotic he ends up being more special, either a special role or a wolf. But who knows. Hmmm.

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Re: Day 6: Cut-Me-Own-Throat

Postby DastardlyOldMan » 14 Aug 2013, 05:49:37

((Votes for Hellheart today are super-secret-quadrupled and give the voter free vigilante shots unless he rolls the week in some ~other game.))

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Re: Day 6: Cut-Me-Own-Throat

Postby FurinMirado » 14 Aug 2013, 05:52:20

rekard wrote:Visigoth can also be a good target and has voted away from being a decision maker and has been carefully tucked away on safe choices. That Furin vote seemed like just a thrown vote to "experiment" with Furin. Also his one post status can lend him to be sort of hidden.

At the same time Furin, don't take Ozy's list as a main point of doing analysis. You can do your own, no need to use Ozy as a lead, as he can be wrong. And just filterijg those that voted for Ozy does not make sense. Why does that matter for your analysis. Even then, neck has put vote lists conveniently. Why not use them better in complement with that list of humans?


Most of Ozymandias' list agrees with the list I have been keeping as well. So I am adopting his list as my own. I know he had at least one PM power, if not more, so he may have had information that he did not share with me. He was running the HA in a way as to keep certain groups ignorant of others.

Regardless of that, at this point we have 22 people (I think, somebody check my math) so I need to latch onto whatever advantage I can find to whittle down the list. Unfortunately I don't have the luxury of poring over the entire vote history.

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Re: Day 6: Cut-Me-Own-Throat

Postby DastardlyOldMan » 14 Aug 2013, 05:57:23

((Roll call updated with current player count - missed that last night.))

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Re: Day 6: Cut-Me-Own-Throat

Postby Mister E. Meat » 14 Aug 2013, 06:07:17

FurinMirado wrote:By the end of the day I did not send the PM to switch any votes, so I believe the wolves had full control of the vote manipulation and decided to dogpile Ozy. Two people I talked to yesterday know about this 3rd part because I confessed it to them in a late-day PM. In the event that I was mauled I wanted someone to be able to come forward with an explanation.

Can any of his PM recpients confirm this part of Furin's post? If so, I'm not backing off fully but it's at least plausible.

Furin, I'd also look long and hard at everyone you PMed and see if you think anyone you talked to could have somehow taken over the power.


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