F5 - The Refresh Strikes Back

The last place you'll ever drink away the day...again.
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Re: F5 - The Refresh Strikes Back

Postby dferrantino » 15 Mar 2017, 08:05:05

Hell, I was there and I need it. I know Ryvvn (or someone) had a camera set up to record, but I think he and FCM are still traveling home and may have gotten stuck in NEPA when the blizzard hit.

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Re: F5 - The Refresh Strikes Back

Postby Ryvvn » 15 Mar 2017, 13:46:34

Okaros wrote:Tell me someone has video of this panel. We need it.

Video got! Will post something as soon as have a chance to go through it, hoping to compile with other shots from multiple sources.

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Re: F5 - The Refresh Strikes Back

Postby stdio » 24 Mar 2017, 14:43:48

[+] warning, programmer bitching inside
I really really really hate js.

We spent DAYS tracking down a bug that turned out to be due to js treating ...

Code: Select all

false == 'false'


... as false, which is just more evidence of how shitty duck typing in general and js in particular is.

This wasn't even our problem! We provide an api and it's the frontend team's problem for what happens after that. Or least, that's how it supposed to work. Instead we've had days of "your crappy backend is broken, you should rewrite it in node!" vs. "you're sending us broken json to ingest, you should switch to xml!" And eventually we had to go through their code to find the problem.

I don't want to hear one more goddamn word about node after this, say what you will about java, but at least we can handle strings correctly.

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Re: F5 - The Refresh Strikes Back

Postby Okaros » 24 Mar 2017, 15:16:02

But stdio, in both of those arguments both sides are wrong! Both json and xml are shitty, and both js and node are entirely crap! :P

( As a member of Ops, I'm statutorily required to mock and deride all of your choices without providing any alternatives. )
I kind of assume Okaros is out to backstab me until proven otherwise. - DOM

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Re: F5 - The Refresh Strikes Back

Postby stdio » 24 Mar 2017, 16:03:37

For a long time we were getting data from our customers via ebcdic files with zone and packed decimals, and those were an enormous pain in the ass to deal with. If you so much as glanced at them wrong, they corrupted. This had the side effect of keeping our development stack extremely rigid, and almost no changes could be made to anything for fear of breaking the super fragile workflow.

Then we got all the stakeholders to agree on a nice modern format for data exchanges (this took years to do), and get everything updated and rewritten into something clean and maintainable and robust.

All of the programming teams were 100% behind that, we were totally united. Now that we aren't constrained by our client' shitty data formats, we can do anything! It's awesome! Except .... now we basically fight internally at the time over tech choices. Sometimes I wonder if things weren't easier, politically, back when had those godawful mainframe files because any technology holy wars got shutdown before they even got started because we had to support that data.

It's like a bunch of factions that united to overthrow a dictator only to fall into infighting once he's gone.

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Re: F5 - The Refresh Strikes Back

Postby Okaros » 24 Mar 2017, 16:19:53

stdio wrote:Then we got all the stakeholders to agree on a nice modern format for data exchanges (this took years to do), and get everything updated and rewritten into something clean and maintainable and robust.

"nice modern format"? So where do json and/or xml come into this story, then? Image


I shouldn't tease, though, as I'll be in the same boat before too long. Today I succeeded in proposing a complete re-design of our entire multinational corporation's provisioning infrastructure and will now be stuck implementing it over the coming weeks. I expect the bickering on this to begin about five minutes after I do.
(Terraform + Chef + Mercurial + Jenkins + Artifactory + Pulp, for a combination of AWS and VMWare environments)



Incidentally... can we get that smiley added to the boards, Omega? Maybe as :rimshot: ?
I kind of assume Okaros is out to backstab me until proven otherwise. - DOM

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Re: F5 - The Refresh Strikes Back

Postby 7-zark-7 » 24 Mar 2017, 16:39:14

Ryvvn wrote:
Okaros wrote:Tell me someone has video of this panel. We need it.

Video got! Will post something as soon as have a chance to go through it, hoping to compile with other shots from multiple sources.


If only you knew someone who worked with video editing. Seriously, if you want to point me towards the raw clip I can trim the fat.

(not saying any of you are fat... I'm carrying around a few extra pounds & was miles away when this was filmed)

More in a bit,

7z7
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"The possibility that it's Zark simply murdering someone at a whim each day... would be delightful if true, but I worry that that's too simple a solution." - Okaros

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Re: F5 - The Refresh Strikes Back

Postby Ryvvn » 26 Mar 2017, 20:00:43

7-zark-7 wrote:
Ryvvn wrote:
Okaros wrote:Tell me someone has video of this panel. We need it.

Video got! Will post something as soon as have a chance to go through it, hoping to compile with other shots from multiple sources.


If only you knew someone who worked with video editing. Seriously, if you want to point me towards the raw clip I can trim the fat.

(not saying any of you are fat... I'm carrying around a few extra pounds & was miles away when this was filmed)

More in a bit,

7z7


Here's an unedited recording of the full panel:
https://youtu.be/2xyWkZB_s5Y

It's not so much that there's fat to trim, more that I want to cut in other shots for the things that happened off camera; regardless, this is still (hopefully) an entertaining watch... even if Dferr was unintentionally out of shot for pretty much all of it :lol:

edit: accidentally posted the link to last year's panel at first; fixed intended link, but here's the one for last year's in case anyone wants to see that too: https://youtu.be/jmaImtN-GKg

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Re: F5 - The Refresh Strikes Back

Postby Okaros » 26 Mar 2017, 20:18:50

Let me guess, dferr wore those abominations on his feet again and that's why he was carefully cropped from the video? ;)

Edit: Yup, the fight confirms those non-euclidian horrors are present.
I kind of assume Okaros is out to backstab me until proven otherwise. - DOM

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Re: F5 - The Refresh Strikes Back

Postby The Fairy Catmother » 26 Mar 2017, 20:25:17

Okaros wrote:Let me guess, dferr wore those abominations on his feet again and that's why he was carefully cropped from the video? ;)


Indeed he did. For your viewing (dis)pleasure, the camera gets an up-close and personal shot of them.
My outfit was much more charming, so I was allowed to stay in view. I wore a different set of cat ears this year - they were floral, not rhinestone.

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Re: F5 - The Refresh Strikes Back

Postby 7-zark-7 » 26 Mar 2017, 20:27:52

We can fix that in post, I know a guy.
"Zark Helmet is too awesome NOT to use!" -Smirker
"The possibility that it's Zark simply murdering someone at a whim each day... would be delightful if true, but I worry that that's too simple a solution." - Okaros

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Re: F5 - The Refresh Strikes Back

Postby dferrantino » 27 Mar 2017, 06:29:19

Okaros wrote:Let me guess, dferr wore those abominations on his feet again and that's why he was carefully cropped from the video? ;)

Edit: Yup, the fight confirms those non-euclidian horrors are present.

They're not shoes: my feet have evolved rubber soles and a thick wool covering.

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Re: F5 - The Refresh Strikes Back

Postby 7-zark-7 » 27 Mar 2017, 14:45:15

dferrantino wrote:They're not shoes: my feet have evolved rubber soles and a thick wool covering.


This isn't even your final form!

More in a bit,

7z7
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"The possibility that it's Zark simply murdering someone at a whim each day... would be delightful if true, but I worry that that's too simple a solution." - Okaros

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Re: F5 - The Refresh Strikes Back

Postby Ryvvn » 29 Mar 2017, 14:05:57

Everyone welcome my buddy, Chris "Not a Wolf" Wulf, to the forums. I just activated his account so hopefully he'll be jumping into my upcoming game:
http://forum.thewolfgame.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2015

And if you've watched the video I recently posted of my PAX East Werewolf panel, you've already seen him in some action!
https://youtu.be/2xyWkZB_s5Y

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Re: F5 - The Refresh Strikes Back

Postby Jrsthethird » 29 Mar 2017, 14:34:34

Not much action, considering his silent whispering role.

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Re: F5 - The Refresh Strikes Back

Postby Admetus » 29 Mar 2017, 20:11:52

Welcome!

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Re: F5 - The Refresh Strikes Back

Postby sphenodont » 30 Mar 2017, 06:13:50

FRESH MEAT FRESH MEAT FRESH MEAT.


.... I mean, welcome to the party!

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Re: F5 - The Refresh Strikes Back

Postby Aldax » 30 Mar 2017, 08:37:03

Welcome! Don't forget rule #1: Don't trust anyone, not even you
Moral of the story: Never self-vig. - rekard

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Re: F5 - The Refresh Strikes Back

Postby dferrantino » 30 Mar 2017, 09:29:58

Ryvvn wrote:Everyone welcome my buddy, Chris "Not a Wolf" Wulf, to the forums. I just activated his account so hopefully he'll be jumping into my upcoming game

Convenient name he's got there.

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Re: F5 - The Refresh Strikes Back

Postby Jrsthethird » 30 Mar 2017, 12:09:42

dferrantino wrote:
Ryvvn wrote:Everyone welcome my buddy, Chris "Not a Wolf" Wulf, to the forums. I just activated his account so hopefully he'll be jumping into my upcoming game

Convenient name he's got there.


#Vote for: DAN

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Re: F5 - The Refresh Strikes Back

Postby ChrisWulf » 31 Mar 2017, 16:20:16

Hey everyone!

Thanks for the introduction, Pete. I'm looking forward to learning more about this cool forum and joining some of your games!
To be fair, I talked way too much during the panel - kind of messed up my role ^_^.

Besides that, thanks for having me! Looking forward to some cool games in here.
I'll definitely make sure not to trust anyone ;)

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Re: F5 - The Refresh Strikes Back

Postby 7-zark-7 » 31 Mar 2017, 17:11:49

Any NYC Wolf want to join me for an early showing of Fate of the Furious? I've got 2 comp tickets to a sneak peak day before opening in Times Square (Wed April 12 6:30 PM).

They do a good show anytime there's a new Universal Big ticket movie, renting out half the theater & comping drinks. Sadly, it's just soda & water (something about drinking & driving I suppose).

I've already met Dan (he didn't have the shoes at the time, so it's cool) but not the rest of the locals

More (fast driving) in a bit,

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Re: F5 - The Refresh Strikes Back

Postby Jrsthethird » 31 Mar 2017, 17:53:56

I'd love to take you up on that zark, but it's too short notice for me to get off work. I'm in PA, 1.5 hrs out of the city, so i need a bit more advance planning for a city trip.

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Re: F5 - The Refresh Strikes Back

Postby sphenodont » 31 Mar 2017, 18:27:13

Twenty-four hours before I take off for Japan... and I'm done packing.

This is an odd feeling.

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Re: F5 - The Refresh Strikes Back

Postby The Fairy Catmother » 03 Apr 2017, 14:37:33

7-zark-7 wrote:Any NYC Wolf want to join me for an early showing of Fate of the Furious? I've got 2 comp tickets to a sneak peak day before opening in Times Square (Wed April 12 6:30 PM).

They do a good show anytime there's a new Universal Big ticket movie, renting out half the theater & comping drinks. Sadly, it's just soda & water (something about drinking & driving I suppose).

I've already met Dan (he didn't have the shoes at the time, so it's cool) but not the rest of the locals

More (fast driving) in a bit,

7z7


It's too bad Ryvvn and I never got a chance to meet you before heading west. Maybe someday!

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Re: F5 - The Refresh Strikes Back

Postby The Fairy Catmother » 03 Apr 2017, 14:38:53

sphenodont wrote:Twenty-four hours before I take off for Japan... and I'm done packing.

This is an odd feeling.


Is this trip business or pleasure? Either way, have fun! It's a helluva flight.

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Re: F5 - The Refresh Strikes Back

Postby The Fairy Catmother » 03 Apr 2017, 14:40:26

ChrisWulf wrote:Hey everyone!

Thanks for the introduction, Pete. I'm looking forward to learning more about this cool forum and joining some of your games!
To be fair, I talked way too much during the panel - kind of messed up my role ^_^.

Besides that, thanks for having me! Looking forward to some cool games in here.
I'll definitely make sure not to trust anyone ;)


Hey, Chris is my buddy, too! Welcome Chris! Glad to have you here.

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Re: F5 - The Refresh Strikes Back

Postby ChrisWulf » 04 Apr 2017, 14:07:55

Thanks for having me. I'm happy to join this cool forum!

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Re: F5 - The Refresh Strikes Back

Postby 7-zark-7 » 04 Apr 2017, 20:49:45

The Fairy Catmother wrote:It's too bad Ryvvn and I never got a chance to meet you before heading west. Maybe someday!


I'm not the road warrior I once was, but I still get out west from time to time. Next time I head out I'll try to look you up.

More in a bit,

7z7
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"The possibility that it's Zark simply murdering someone at a whim each day... would be delightful if true, but I worry that that's too simple a solution." - Okaros

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Re: F5 - The Refresh Strikes Back

Postby necklessone » 06 Apr 2017, 05:21:05

So there's a database somewhere in Vancouver, Washington. It houses information from an analytical lab there.

I am in Princeton, New Jersey. For more than four years, I've needed to get information from that database to do my job. I was eventually granted access to a web form where I can create very simple queries from menus and lists to get a CSV output.

I shrugged, sighed, and designed another database on my end to house some of that information and transform it into something useful.

A few months into this process, a vendor had a good meeting with my company. We were promised a new database that would make the very heavens open up with tools for analysis. It would be able to pull information from the analytical DB and completely obsolete my thrown together tool. There was much rejoicing, though I was a little worried that it was a decision being made by scientists and managers with little technology background.

Skip ahead three years. The promised software is delivered. It does not in fact import data from anywhere; technicians have two browser windows open and are typing back and forth. It does not do what my tool does. Only the statisticians are happy, which is important because theirs is a dark and complex magic.

I shrugged, sighed, and implemented all the changes I wanted to my tool that I'd put off for years because it was going to be obsoleted.

But now people want my tool to do more since emailing me is easier than trying to steer the behemoth we paid way too much for. We've reached the point where I am essentially storing a local copy of the analytical database in Access on our network share. I don't even know who I would contact to launch a SQL server for this, though I do know it would involve a lot of meetings with confused looking bosses. Oh, and I still don't have access to write the queries I need to actually make an accurate copy of this database and no one knows how to grant it. I can only query by a date range where the dates have been manually entered, so I have no way good way to handle entries that were misdated or backdated.

IT here is fucked up.

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Re: F5 - The Refresh Strikes Back

Postby Admetus » 06 Apr 2017, 07:49:05

That does seem quite awful. But Access, man? ;)

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Re: F5 - The Refresh Strikes Back

Postby necklessone » 06 Apr 2017, 08:16:20

That is one of the many, many things that makes me a bad person.

Edit: And if some of you could see the mess of an Excel file (powered by VBA and a rickety connection to Sharepoint) that runs our vitamins product development, you would run screaming.

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Re: F5 - The Refresh Strikes Back

Postby 7-zark-7 » 09 Apr 2017, 13:14:50

necklessone wrote:That is one of the many, many things that makes me a bad person.

Edit: And if some of you could see the mess of an Excel file (powered by VBA and a rickety connection to Sharepoint) that runs our vitamins product development, you would run screaming.


I've seen worse. Let me play you the song of my people. We are currently fighting a Commercial ad delivery problem with Saturday Night Live for streaming feeds (iTunes/Hulu/etc). Necklessone's revelation of the access db and sharepoint/ excel workflows for Willie Wonka's Vitamin Factory made me want to join the fun as well .

Odds are good you'd all cringe if you knew how bass-ackwards the streaming side of broadcast really was. It's traditionally not my silo, but being good at solving problems means you inherit those of others.

Let's just say the "system" does cruel and unnatural things with google docs/spreadsheets to create *.csv files to be picked up by automation which was clearly designed at the turn of the century by Hitler's even more evil clone. It's effectively a mail merge of the fields tyoed into the google sheet, which is why we should discourage operations from thinking they can write code.

My pain point is the retiring in June "developer" who created this monstrosity folded under my team a few months back is, well, retiring in June. I'm not saying he's Hitler's even more evil clone. I am saying he's got a lot of family that left Germany for South America shortly after the fall of the third Reich, but I'm changing the subject. The mustache is not a good look for him.

Beer me strength?

More in a bit,

7z7
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"The possibility that it's Zark simply murdering someone at a whim each day... would be delightful if true, but I worry that that's too simple a solution." - Okaros

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Re: F5 - The Refresh Strikes Back

Postby sphenodont » 12 Apr 2017, 07:01:49

Admetus wrote:That does seem quite awful. But Access, man? ;)


When you are non-IT, you work with what you can.

Just remember, to everyone else, IT is the land of unlimited budgets and toys.

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Re: F5 - The Refresh Strikes Back

Postby sphenodont » 12 Apr 2017, 07:03:22

The Fairy Catmother wrote:
sphenodont wrote:Twenty-four hours before I take off for Japan... and I'm done packing.

This is an odd feeling.


Is this trip business or pleasure? Either way, have fun! It's a helluva flight.


Pleasure.

It was only a ten day trip, but it was amazing. Mostly de-jetlagged, but not entirely. Exit row seats on the return trip helped immensely.

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Re: F5 - The Refresh Strikes Back

Postby Okaros » 12 Apr 2017, 07:06:02

sphenodont wrote:Just remember, to everyone else, IT is the land of unlimited budgets and toys.

AHAHAHAHHahahahah ah hah ha haa... *sob*
I kind of assume Okaros is out to backstab me until proven otherwise. - DOM

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Re: F5 - The Refresh Strikes Back

Postby sphenodont » 12 Apr 2017, 08:07:22

Okaros: Now imagine how we feel.

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Re: F5 - The Refresh Strikes Back

Postby Okaros » 12 Apr 2017, 08:10:08

sphenodont wrote:Okaros: Now imagine how we feel.

You'll take the desktop we give you and you'll LIKE IT, Mister!
I kind of assume Okaros is out to backstab me until proven otherwise. - DOM

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Re: F5 - The Refresh Strikes Back

Postby Okaros » 12 Apr 2017, 08:43:44

From the IT perspective, Finance, Development and Marketing believe they have unlimited budgets because anything they want comes out of our budget, not theirs. And since we're a cost center to be minimized rather than a revenue-generator to be encouraged, they're all too often right (from the Execute Leadership's point of view, anyway).

If it seems like we have all the cool toys it's because we spend all of our own tiny paychecks on them. :)
I kind of assume Okaros is out to backstab me until proven otherwise. - DOM

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Re: F5 - The Refresh Strikes Back

Postby dferrantino » 12 Apr 2017, 09:00:41

My favorite (from the Applications side, specifically) is "Here are 5 new apps we want to start using. Their respective marketing departments tell us they're easy to integrate with our existing platform [which already has this functionality built in but we never bothered to learn it]. Can we get them up and running next week?"

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Re: F5 - The Refresh Strikes Back

Postby sphenodont » 12 Apr 2017, 10:06:48

Okaros wrote:If it seems like we have all the cool toys it's because we spend all of our own tiny paychecks on them. :)


Don't get me wrong, I've got a full complement of toys at my desk, but I unashamedly abuse my hard-won local admin rights. (Until recently, I was the only person in my entire department with my USB ports activated.)

IT folks generally get looser system restrictions and easier access to software than everyone else, and they don't seem to realize that other departments are shackled in that way. So the constant refrain of "Why use Access?" is doubly-frustrating.

From the IT perspective, Finance, Development and Marketing believe they have unlimited budgets because anything they want comes out of our budget, not theirs. And since we're a cost center to be minimized rather than a revenue-generator to be encouraged, they're all too often right (from the Execute Leadership's point of view, anyway).


Yeah, I hear you. Actuary is one of the few departments with the ability to smackdown Marketing and get them to Just Stop Already. The problem is that we have to do that so often. :(

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Re: F5 - The Refresh Strikes Back

Postby Okaros » 12 Apr 2017, 10:25:25

sphenodont wrote:IT folks generally get looser system restrictions and easier access to software than everyone else, and they don't seem to realize that other departments are shackled in that way. So the constant refrain of "Why use Access?" is doubly-frustrating.

You know, that's an excellent point. *removes Access from your workstation* There, problem solved. :twisted:
I kind of assume Okaros is out to backstab me until proven otherwise. - DOM

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Re: F5 - The Refresh Strikes Back

Postby sphenodont » 12 Apr 2017, 10:53:44

HA HA HA YOU FOOL. NOW I WILL BE FORCED TO CREATE A FRANKENEXCEL WORKBOOK THAT WILL EAT THE ENTIRE SERVER.

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Re: F5 - The Refresh Strikes Back

Postby Gungnir888 » 12 Apr 2017, 10:55:20

You employ people who know how to use Access? I'm on my 5th call in a week where I have to walk a person with 'manager' in their title through filtering a pivot table and double clicking on a cell to show the detailed contents.

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Re: F5 - The Refresh Strikes Back

Postby dferrantino » 12 Apr 2017, 11:07:11

sphenodont wrote:HA HA HA YOU FOOL. NOW I WILL BE FORCED TO CREATE A FRANKENEXCEL WORKBOOK THAT WILL EAT THE ENTIRE SERVER.

Nice workstation you've got there. Shame if something were to happen to it.

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Re: F5 - The Refresh Strikes Back

Postby necklessone » 12 Apr 2017, 17:14:59

Product development has some of the same problems as IT (cost not profit). But when marketing makes requests of us, they often involve radically altering the fundamental rules of the universe.

"We want a gummy with caffeine. But sourced naturally, so it's extra bitter. And only one piece per serving. And can you add ginseng? No? Too bad, we already told Walmart we would. And it needs to translucent, not melt, have a cooling sensation, and taste like cucumber water. We want first ship in 9 months. No, 9 months from the Walmart meeting we had in February."

---

As a chief contributor of Access monstrosities and Excel abominations, I actually feel really shitty about it. And there are currently more new crimes against IT at the top of my project list. I know this is absolutely wrong, but trying to get any of our budget aimed at doing things the right way has been futile (it's either denied, or the scope grows so huge as all of the other product groups hop on board that it eventually collapses). And all this shit is held together with band aids and rubber bands; I doubt my management understands how much tech debt we've accrued. But when it collapses, I'll probably still be there to sort through the wreckage.

In happier news, I made this and it's a real thing people can buy this week. This project is part of the reason I stopped playing TWG; it went from a random idea into seven products racing to release and I no longer had time to play at work. Now that it's launched, I can kind of slack again!

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Re: F5 - The Refresh Strikes Back

Postby Admetus » 12 Apr 2017, 19:06:54

Nice, it looks simply good.t

t Statement not yet evaluated by my household, though I suspect we might try it out.

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Re: F5 - The Refresh Strikes Back

Postby 7-zark-7 » 12 Apr 2017, 21:53:05

We should all try necklessone's soylent vitamins.

More in a bit,

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Re: F5 - The Refresh Strikes Back

Postby sphenodont » 13 Apr 2017, 06:26:39

Very nice, necklessone!

Out of curiosity, does your company make any gummy vitamins that are not gelatin-based?

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Re: F5 - The Refresh Strikes Back

Postby sphenodont » 13 Apr 2017, 06:27:49

dferrantino wrote:
sphenodont wrote:HA HA HA YOU FOOL. NOW I WILL BE FORCED TO CREATE A FRANKENEXCEL WORKBOOK THAT WILL EAT THE ENTIRE SERVER.

Nice workstation you've got there. Shame if something were to happen to it.


My faith in our IT department* is such that I perform my own biweekly backups to an external drive.


* The policies and CIO more than the actual staff, though I question some of those hires occasionally.


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