Day 5: Anything could be inside!

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Re: Day 5: Anything could be inside!

Postby Ozymandias » 07 Sep 2013, 17:41:31

Ionitor wrote:And all I got was a crummy picture of necklessone (with the vote reduction power). I can't decide whether Rictus' claim makes any sense, or could be related to the quantum seer, or what.

Emphasis mine. That's a VERY interesting theory.

Hmm, did any of the already publicly-claiming seers target Rictus last night?

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Re: Day 5: Anything could be inside!

Postby Ionitor » 07 Sep 2013, 17:44:50

Okaros wrote:Ionitor: I'm not sure I see how your voting plan for Rictus prevents a vig-snipe at EOD from lynching someone else? Whoever's in second place will get lynched regardless.

I meant that it puts the lynch in the hands of a group that, at the very least, is probably majority human (since we lynched a wolf). Otherwise, one or two lone votes could do it.

I can't believe I'm saying this, though, but I'm starting to believe Rictus.

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Re: Day 5: Anything could be inside!

Postby Okaros » 07 Sep 2013, 17:47:39

Ionitor wrote:I meant that it puts the lynch in the hands of a group that, at the very least, is probably majority human (since we lynched a wolf). Otherwise, one or two lone votes could do it.


Ah, I see. Thanks for clarifying.
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Re: Day 5: Anything could be inside!

Postby rekard » 07 Sep 2013, 17:51:38

Ionitor wrote:
Okaros wrote:Ionitor: I'm not sure I see how your voting plan for Rictus prevents a vig-snipe at EOD from lynching someone else? Whoever's in second place will get lynched regardless.

I meant that it puts the lynch in the hands of a group that, at the very least, is probably majority human (since we lynched a wolf). Otherwise, one or two lone votes could do it.

I can't believe I'm saying this, though, but I'm starting to believe Rictus.


Why would be that? Also, would it be fair to have a role that has no description in the rules (quantum seer)?

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Re: Day 5: Anything could be inside!

Postby Ozymandias » 07 Sep 2013, 17:52:52

Okaros wrote:It seems very, very odd for our host to hand out only a single secret prize like that.

Ionitor's already said he didn't get anything... Did anyone else (Ozy? Furin? stig? Leiden? redead?) that voted for dferrantino get something other than, or in addition to, the vote reduction power that was publicly announced?

I did not receive an additional prize.

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Re: Day 5: Anything could be inside!

Postby Rictus » 07 Sep 2013, 17:53:41

Okaros wrote:It seems very, very odd for our host to hand out only a single secret prize like that.

Ionitor's already said he didn't get anything... Did anyone else (Ozy? Furin? stig? Leiden? redead?) that voted for dferrantino get something other than, or in addition to, the vote reduction power that was publicly announced?



I would suggest that if anyone did, they not affirm. No reason to give the wolfs more info. And yes, I'm aware that more people coming forward could help clear me. But that gives more targets to the wolves.


Rictus, did you *also* get a vote reduction power? Or did this PM power replace it? Did our host give you any indication why you were getting something non-standard?


1. I did.
2. It did not.
3. Not at all. I can't quote his PM but basically it was "Hey look, you got an extra prize!"
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Re: Day 5: Anything could be inside!

Postby rekard » 07 Sep 2013, 18:03:38

Rictus wrote:
Ozymandias wrote:
Rictus wrote:It was 5-5 when I voted.

Actually it was a 4-4 tie when you voted: you made it 5-4.

And then ICB tied it again at 5-5.

And then actually simon briefly broke the tie but switched off to make it tied again.

And then Ionitor made it 6-5, redead made it 7-5, and rekard made it 7-6.

So Ionitor was the last tie-breaker.


yes, this sounds correct.

If you read my post, I claimed I was A tiebreaker. And it makes rekard even more wolfy.

I'd ask Admetus and Ozy to look at Rekard's votes closely.


Why the attention on me all of a sudden? What makes me different from the other players? I doubted yesterday, but at the same time I switched votes from Ionitor on day 2 to tie dferrantino up with the other bandwagons (before they escalated by other players). I don't really understand.

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Re: Day 5: Anything could be inside!

Postby Ozymandias » 07 Sep 2013, 18:09:09

rekard wrote:Also, would it be fair to have a role that has no description in the rules (quantum seer)?

Then why include it in the list of Seers if it's not going to come into play?

I think speculating wildly about what a "Quantum Seer" could possibly be is part of the point, and thus entirely fair game.

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Re: Day 5: Anything could be inside!

Postby rekard » 07 Sep 2013, 18:15:18

Well it's not consistent with having the description of the other roles. Also it's not like everyone here knows or understands exactly what a quantum seer could be. At least with the other descriptions, a pkayer has a frame from where to deduce things by himself.

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Re: Day 5: Anything could be inside!

Postby Rictus » 07 Sep 2013, 18:30:35

rekard wrote:Why the attention on me all of a sudden? What makes me different from the other players? I doubted yesterday, but at the same time I switched votes from Ionitor on day 2 to tie dferrantino up with the other bandwagons (before they escalated by other players). I don't really understand.


Day 1:
You drop a vote on Visigoth. Ok, could be anything.
Day 2:
You mention Ionitor, dferrantino, and Aldax all as 'wolfish'. You vote on Ionitor but jump off to Dferr. Pretty human. End up sitting alone on Dferr.
Day 3:
Back on Ionitor, then Ryyvn draws your attention as wolf. I dunno, you seem to be all over the place declaring anyone that moves as a wolf... almost like you're just dropping background hints to get people thinking "Yeah...can't remember where I heard it but sure, that person is wolfish". When I claimed as a Seer, you immediately said "Well, you better come clean, cause you're a lynch target". This makes absolutely no sense, and again it looks like you're muddying the water. You challenge Dferr on his logic (another human tell). You end up sitting on the sidelines on Ionitor.
Day 4:
you mention FM as a wolf (maybe he is, since he outted me). And Ozy, and Stigmata as wolves. Then tried to get a bandwagon on SimpleSimon. Somehow ended up on Ozy at the end. Again you're all over the place.
Day 5:
you try to cast doubt on the "last two votes on the dferr train". "How predictable"

So while you end up with a few humanish tells, you sound pretty wolfish to me. I've been watching you since day 3 when you asked me to dump everything since it might get me lynched. I didn't want to vote for you back then since I wanted to get a seer result on you first...and now voting for you will make me look like I'm trying to deflect attention onto you. So instead, I'd like a couple of analytical types to give you the once over.
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Re: Day 5: Anything could be inside!

Postby rekard » 07 Sep 2013, 19:08:45

Basically, you're describing someone who has doubts about what can be good to do. Now that I recall I did the same thing twi e last game and I was still a human. I even lynched dferrantino then with a snipe that game and he was human. I make mistakes like evryone else.

Did you ever see the last game? There were various wolf backstabs then. There is basis go always cast doubt on anything.

And also a declared seer that shares no more visions will always be a prime target to maul. Better to maul that seer, than letting him to share more. Simon was mauled yesterday, and if he was seered previous to that, he was great to maul, because he had not openly shared visions. That's why I supported a reveal, because a reveal with no more visions is a shame. It also didn't help that several people declared visions too. Which is both good and bad for reasons already stated by several people.

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Re: Day 5: Anything could be inside!

Postby rekard » 07 Sep 2013, 19:42:04

Also, rules say this :

Not all players will always receive the same prize

I do not really know if it would apply to the extent of Rictus claims.

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Re: Day 5: Anything could be inside!

Postby Ozymandias » 07 Sep 2013, 19:54:37

Ozymandias wrote:
rekard wrote:Also, would it be fair to have a role that has no description in the rules (quantum seer)?

Then why include it in the list of Seers if it's not going to come into play?

I think speculating wildly about what a "Quantum Seer" could possibly be is part of the point, and thus entirely fair game.

And since I brought it up, I guess I'll start the speculation (though I suspect this may have occurred to Ionitor first):

What if the "Quantum Seer" is a Seer that literally TRANSFORMS his target into whatever random vision of a specific role that the Quantum Seer had of his target?

In which case, Rictus may no longer be a Seer, and could now permanently be a Networker.

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Re: Day 5: Anything could be inside!

Postby Ozymandias » 07 Sep 2013, 21:46:13

necklessone wrote:Prizes Cont'd
Both prizes and penalties may have secret aspects that are not announced or revealed to all players. They are not limited to only what is announced by the host.

Since my assumption that Humans could not receive unannounced secret prizes was a large part of why I voted for Rictus, I retracted that vote.
Last edited by Ozymandias on 07 Sep 2013, 21:47:41, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Day 5: Anything could be inside!

Postby Ozymandias » 07 Sep 2013, 21:47:20

Current Vote Tally:
Smirker - 2 - ICB, leiden
Griffypoo - 2 - rekard, Nitestorm
Ionitor - 1 - stigmata
Rictus - 1 - Mister Furin

ETA: Oops-- missed Furin's vote.
Last edited by Ozymandias on 08 Sep 2013, 08:22:03, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Day 5: Anything could be inside!

Postby Smirker » 07 Sep 2013, 22:06:15

OK, a lot has changed indeed since I could last get here. this will require more thought than I can do atm. More tomorrow (probably morning-ish hours).

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Re: Day 5: Anything could be inside!

Postby San » 08 Sep 2013, 03:48:06

Admetus

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Re: Day 5: Anything could be inside!

Postby Ionitor » 08 Sep 2013, 06:23:42

First, given the fact of secret prizes/penalties and other potential nonsense-without-a-neck, I'm officially tipped into the "no fake seers" camp. I'm a real seer; the results that I posted earlier are the results I've actually gotten so far.

Second, Omega seems to be taking more of a backseat, and he's had a lot of starting bandwagons on humans (obviously not known at the time). Despite this, he hasn't received a single vote yet, when he would make a great place for a wolf to hide a vote.

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Re: Day 5: Anything could be inside!

Postby Visigoth » 08 Sep 2013, 06:31:13

First some pretty lists. Apologies for those with any type of color-blindness issues, but wanted to differentiate between Contestants and specials since that might reveal crumbs left by votes instead of in posts.

[+] Votes
Day 1
FurinMirado - 6 - Omega, Mister E. Meat, Mortus, twdog, Ozymandias, Ionitor
Ionitor - 4 - Okaros, Iron Clad Burrito, Visigoth, Rictus
simple_simon - 4 - Griffypoo, Aldax, Smirker, Ryvvn
Ryvvn - 3 - Meta4, Wasabi, sphenodont
Hellheart - 2 - blindsniper83, redead
Ozymandias - 2 - Nitestorm, dferrantino
Admetus - 1 - DastardlyOldMan
Meta4 - 1 - leiden
Mortus - 1 - RaveBomb
Nitestorm - 1 - Admetus
RaveBomb - 1 - Hellheart
rekard - 1 - simple_simon
San - 1 - stigmata
stigmata - 1 - FurinMirado
twdog - 1 - San
Visigoth - 1 - rekard

Official list showed Ryvvn voting on Hellheart but he did change (no redaction) to Simple_Simon. But redead did vote on Hellheart and is not listed so guessing typo. Maybe?

Day 2
Mortus - 9 - Okaros, FurinMirado (Mister E Meat), DastardlyOldMan, RaveBomb, Admetus, Ozymandias, Nitestorm, Ionitor, Ryvvn
RaveBomb - 7 - simple_simon, Omega, Aldax, Blindsniper83, Mortus, Iron Clad Burrito, Smirker
Nitestorm - 4 - leiden, Griffypoo, twdog, dferrantino
Ionitor - 2 - Meta4, stigmata
Aldax - 1 - Hellheart
dferrantino - 1 - rekard
rekard - 1 - sphenodont
Rictus - 1 - San
Ryvvn - 1 - Visigoth

Day 3
RaveBomb - 8 - simple_simon, FurinMirado (Mister E Meat), Ryvvn, Rictus, Nitestorm, Aldax, Stigmata, Ionitor
Ryvvn - 8 - Smirker, Ozymandias, Omega, twdog, blindsniper83, RaveBomb, sphenodont, redead
FurinMirado (Mister E Meat) - 5 - leiden, San, Okaros, Iron Clad Burrito, Admetus
Nitestorm - 2 - Griffypoo, Visigoth
Admetus - 1 - DastardlyOldMan
Ionitor - 1 - rekard
Ozymandias - 1 - dferrantino

Hellheart - Vigged by blindsniper83

Day 4
dferrantino - 7 - Ozymandias, FurinMirado, stigmata, leiden, Rictus, Ionitor, redead
Ozymandias - 6 - Smirker, Nitestorm, dferrantino, RaveBomb, Iron Clad Burrito, rekard
twdog - 3 - Visigoth, San, simple_simon
blindsniper83 - 2 - Griffypoo, twdog
simple_simon - 2 - Omega, Okaros
RaveBomb - 1 - Aldax
Smirker - 1 - sphenodont
stigmata - 1 - Admetus


Next here is what I may or may not have seen when staring at the poster:

Night 1 - sphenodont - Seer
Night 2 - DastardlyOldMan - Contestant
Night 3 - twdog - Wolf
Night 4 - rekard - Seer

Not one sailboat among them, dammit.

Next some thoughts on the votes. Looking at just the votes there is some really crazy last minute EOD stuff going on each day that is just so suspicious. Day 1 you have the double Ozymandias and Ionitor move to FurinMirado #1 to push him over and out. Day 2 involves Ionitor, again, pushing Mortus into a tie with RaveBomb then Ryvvn also switches to push Mortus ahead. Day 3, once again, Ionitor is there pushing RaveBomb ahead but then redead comes in and ties Ryvvn up with RaveBomb. Day 4 oddly, not really, again Ionitor has a late vote switch pushing dferrantino into the lead and redead does another EOD of day vote to assist dferrantino out the door.

Not sure what to make of Ozymandias's last minute switch to push FurinMirado over the top on Day 1. He oddly wasn't in danger so not in self-defense. Was it a move to protect one of the others, maybe. For Day 1 the only other person in danger that is unknown is Ionitor. So maybe he switched to try and protect him thinking that maybe he wasn't around to cast a self-defense vote. But then Ionitor does come along and make the vote switch. If they are both wolves Ozymandias would likely know Ionitor was around and could save himself. If Ozymandias is the wolf why make a pretty big last minute switch to push a Contestant ahead? I could see it as him trying to plant the seeds of doubt about the others so that when he's lynched and revealed as a wolf the others that he "saved" might look guilty. Not sure I buy that explanation but it could explain it.

Now Ionitor making last minute vote snipes (especially on Day 1 which can be viewed as a self-defense vote) is not really much of a surprise at this point. It's a bit of a M.O. for him to make some pokes during the day with his votes and then move again near EOD for his final vote. Still as his voting pattern is kind of know it gives him a bit of an out to explain away any wolfiness the votes have. Also his last minute vote switches have been kind of game changing in who gets lynched. Day 1 I discount since self-defense is as good a reason as any to vote on someone, Day 2 it put Mortus away (see below for a theory on that), Day 3 almost got RaveBomb, and Day 4 putting dferrantino into the lead.

Ryvvn's vote switch was not too unexpected since he had said that he'd be voting on whoever was in the lead in order to get the prize. As we now know he was a Contestant it seems safe to say that his explanation was likely the truth. Seeing as he mentioned that earlier in the thread that he'd be voting for the leader in order to get the prize it might have opened him up to being manipulated into changing his vote. If people saw and believed what he said they would know that Ryvvn would switch his vote to whoever was going to get lynched. So in a sense there was a +1 vote manipulation power sitting there to be used. I mention all of this because when Ionitor switched to Mortus to tie it up seeing Ryvvn move to Mortus to push him ahead wasn't that surprising. And since Ryvvn had posted minutes before EOD it would be obvious he was around watching the thread so would be able to change his vote as needed.

Last in the bunch of odd EOD votes is redead. Day 1 was pretty much a nothing vote on Hellheart, but it's Day 1 so nothing votes are not uncommon. Nothing on Day 2. Day 3 was a late vote on Ryvvn to tie him up with RaveBomb. Day 4 was the late vote to cap dferrantino. His Day 3 post might have been a breadcrumb for a Seer result or just riffing on his name due to the myst reference. Day 4 he says he's going against his gut to vote on dferrantino. Now he's new here so these, in my mind, very wolfy late EOD votes could be simply be hand waved away for that very reason. He's new and doesn't realize just how suspicious those votes look plus since he's new he's a little bit quiet while he adjusts to the insane asylum here. But there's part of me that can't help but think that it's all by design. If he's a wolf it gives him (and the other wolves) a great tool to make really suspicious moves that will hopefully be seen as just newbie mistakes.

Now how this all fits together I'm not sure. RaveBomb seems a bit suspicious as he's been involved in some close calls that involved some of these last night vote moves. As such I'd kind of think that it would be an either RaveBomb or Ionitor as a wolf in such a case, but not entirely sure. On one day there's the appearance that Ionitor kind of saved RaveBomb but then the next day he put a vote that would have pushed him ahead. Wolves tossing each other under the bus is nothing new so if they are both wolves it might have been an attempt to get human cred by pushing RaveBomb out when he was in danger again. There's also the RaveBomb/redead are wolves which might explain redead's late vote to tie it up perhaps in an attempt to save RaveBomb. Perhaps he's just an unwitting pawn in some odd wolf plan or maybe he's the target of his fellow wolves attempts. Part of me says lynch him to find out his allegiance but another says that it's just a distraction and to try and find a better candidate.

Also not sure about Rictus. He's been rather adamant against doing Seer reveals which is odd. I do agree that when Ozymandias suggested it that it was too soon, but now I don't see a reason to not come forward. Even in a regular game I'd think a Seer should come forward with their information around this time since even if they haven't found wolves they hopefully will have a number of living humans which would help narrow down the list. Even more so since he himself came out on Day 3 with one of his results but has yet publicly share his other results (they ended up that way due to FurinMirado posting them) and doesn't seem to get why since he'd already revealed himself as a Seer that it would not be good to reveal the rest of his results. Also rather defensive about not being at least a little bit responsible for blindsniper83 shooting Hellheart after Rictus revealed him as a wolf. blindsniper83 kind of implied it a bit by referencing Rictus's Seering result after taking the shot. The PM and Seer ability is also a little hinky, but it does seem possible that he's been awarded a special unannounced prize for voting on dferrantino so that could explain that away.

Ionitor and redead are two others that I'm suspicious about mainly due to the votes at EOD. Maybe too obvious of moves for wolves, but that could be what they are hoping for. Tempted to vote on Giffypoo simple because his avatar disturbs me greatly for some reason. San being San is, well, San so not sure if that means anything at all.

Going to hold off voting right now since it's still a bit early. I have a narrative in my head but worried that I'm going down the rabbit hole on it and making pieces fit (even if they really don't) to suit the story. So I think stepping away for a bit and coming back to it will be a good thing.

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Re: Day 5: Anything could be inside!

Postby necklessone » 08 Sep 2013, 06:40:46

Official tally on Day 1 could easily have mistakes. Let me go double check.

Edit: Your version is correct. Going to edit now.

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Re: Day 5: Anything could be inside!

Postby Ionitor » 08 Sep 2013, 07:22:17

So, someone may have commented on this, but I just realized how appropriate it would have been to distribute dfer's power to one of his voters. In fact, it would be a great way to keep the networker power in the game and to give a human a chance to get it, if there was really only one networker. I believe Rictus' story, though I don't think it makes him 100% human -- but certainly not an auto-lynch.

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Re: "Possible Seer" Vision Claims

Postby Ozymandias » 08 Sep 2013, 07:38:01

Thought it would be useful to put all the Seer claims in one place.

If I have any of them listed incorrectly, please let me know.

Note that "Human" could mean "Contestant" or "Seer."

ALDAX

Night 1: Rave = "Wolf"
Night 2: Hellheart = "Seer"
Night 3: Ozy = "Contestant"
Night 4: Mister Furin = "Seer"

MISTER FURIN

Night 1: Griffypoo = "Wolf" (relayed by necklessone)
Night 2: Griffypoo = "Wolf"
Night 3: Iron Clad Burrito = "Wolf"
Night 4: Target = "No Result"

IONITOR

Night 1: San = "Seer"
Night 2: San = "Seer"
Night 3: stigmata = "Seer"
Night 4: Visigoth = "Seer"

IRON CLAD BURRITO

Night 1: Meta4 = "Wolf"
Night 2: Simon = "No Result"
Night 3: Simon = "Wolf"
Night 4: Ozy = "Wolf"

LEIDEN

Night 1: Ryvvn = "Contestant"
Night 2: Hellheart = "Contestant"
Night 3: Rekard = "No Result"
Night 4: Ionitor = "Seer"

RICTUS

Night 1: Hellheart = "Wolf"
Night 2: Did not vote
Night 3: Iron Clad Burrito = "Wolf"
Night 4: rekard = "Contestant"

SMIRKER

Night 1: rekard = "Wolf"
Night 2: Ionitor = "Wolf"
Night 3: ICB = "Wolf"
Night 4: blindsniper = "Wolf"

TWDOG

Night 1: Rave = "Seer"
Night 2: Ionitor = "Seer"
Night 3: blindsniper = "Wolf"
Night 4: Smirker = "Contestant"

VISIGOTH

Night 1: sphenodont = "Seer"
Night 2: DOM = "Contestant"
Night 3: twdog = "Wolf"
Night 4: rekard = "Seer"
Last edited by Ozymandias on 08 Sep 2013, 15:36:46, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Day 5: Anything could be inside!

Postby FurinMirado » 08 Sep 2013, 08:18:07

This has been bothering me so after thinking about it last night I decided to methodically go through the vote history this morning. This is the summary of what I found:

Rictus DID break the tie in favor of dferrantino being lynched. HOWEVER, he was the FIFTH to do so and not the last. Here is the list:

Ozymandias - First Tie Breaker
FurinMirado - Second Tie Breaker
Stigmata - Third Tie Breaker
leiden - Fourth Tie Breaker
Rictus - Fifth Tie Breaker
Simple_SImon - Sixth Tie Breaker (But quickly retracted)
Ionitor - Seventh Tie Breaker (and the Last)

So if anyone should have gotten a Prize it would have been Ionitor who was the deciding vote that got dferrantino lynched.

redead then came along and voted for derr, making the ratio 7:5

Then at the very last minute rekard came along and voted for Ozymandias, making the ratio 7:6

So while I do find Rictus' claim possible, it does not make sense for him to get a Prize unless Ionitor did as well. My vote will remain on Rictus.


(I have all of this in an Excel document, but I can't figure out how to post an Excel table)

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Re: Day 5: Anything could be inside!

Postby Ionitor » 08 Sep 2013, 08:20:15

I would assume it's random -- if we "steal" another wolf power, we wouldn't want the wolves to automatically know who has it.

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Re: Day 5: Anything could be inside!

Postby Ozymandias » 08 Sep 2013, 08:22:38

Current Vote Tally:
Smirker - 2 - ICB, leiden
Griffypoo - 2 - rekard, Nitestorm
Ionitor - 1 - stigmata
Rictus - 1 - Mister Furin
Admetus - 1 - San
Omega - 1 - Ionitor

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Re: Day 5: Anything could be inside!

Postby FurinMirado » 08 Sep 2013, 08:30:03

Ionitor wrote:I would assume it's random -- if we "steal" another wolf power, we wouldn't want the wolves to automatically know who has it.

So 7 people were Tie Breakers and necklessone chose randomly among those 7 to get a secret prize? That actually seems pretty reasonable too. I'll have to think on this some more. After looking through the voting history rekard's vote switch could be seen as a Wolf trying to tie things up but miscounting the vote.

Edited to Add: Although it would be just as easy for Rictus to be a wolf that got lucky and picked up a PM power.
Last edited by FurinMirado on 08 Sep 2013, 08:35:57, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Day 5: Anything could be inside!

Postby Ozymandias » 08 Sep 2013, 08:34:34

FurinMirado wrote:So 7 people were Tie Breakers and necklessone chose randomly among those 7 to get a secret prize? That actually seems pretty reasonable too.

I don't think Rictus claimed that the GM mentioned anything about a tiebreaker-- that was just Rictus' speculation:

Rictus wrote:Last night I was awarded a power by the GM that gives me the ability to send PMs. I have no idea why, but If you look, I was a tiebreaker on dferr.

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Re: Day 5: Anything could be inside!

Postby FurinMirado » 08 Sep 2013, 08:47:59

Ozymandias wrote:
FurinMirado wrote:So 7 people were Tie Breakers and necklessone chose randomly among those 7 to get a secret prize? That actually seems pretty reasonable too.

I don't think Rictus claimed that the GM mentioned anything about a "Tiebreaker"-- that was just Rictus' speculation:

Rictus wrote:Last night I was awarded a power by the GM that gives me the ability to send PMs. I have no idea why, but If you look, I was a tiebreaker on dferr.


He did not, but that's the only thing that sticks out. I'm not sure I should be making excuses for him, but right now I can only figure two reasonable explanations:

1. Wolf Rictus is a Networker that wanted to derail my efforts to deduce my Seer Role. He privately sends a list of false results to lead me astray. Since it's not public he's less likely to be found out. He makes the mistake of not making up a good cover story for why he can send PMs and be a Seer. That last point is the weakest part of the argument although Rictus himself stated he is bad with PMs. He may not have thought it through.

2. Seven people broke the vote tie to put dferrantino into the lead each time. Necklessone decides to reward us by randomly assigning a PM Prize to 1 of the 7 of us. Human Seer Rictus gets a PM power (temporary or permanent?) and decides to PM someone while claiming to be a Seer and yet does not explain how he got this PM power. That last point is the weakest part of this argument although Rictus himself stated he is bad with PMs. He may not have thought it through.

So I'm left on the fence about this whole thing. Both require Rictus deciding to PM me without thinking about explaining why he's a Seer that has a PM power. "A Wolf would have thought it through better" seems like a valid counter-argument, but you could also say "A Human that thought he had a really critical power would have thought it through better".

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Re: Day 5: Anything could be inside!

Postby Ozymandias » 08 Sep 2013, 08:53:36

FurinMirado wrote:Although it would be just as easy for Rictus to be a wolf that got lucky and picked up a PM power.

Agreed-- I don't think Rictus getting an additional power proves he's Human at all.

I just no longer think that he MUST be a Wolf Networker (given that he claimed to know information a Human Networker couldn't possibly know), which is what I assumed before the GM's "secret prize" clarification.

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Re: Day 5: Anything could be inside!

Postby necklessone » 08 Sep 2013, 09:12:04

The curtains suddenly part to reveal two tables: one piled with shoe-boxes wrapped in striped paper and other appears to be empty. Between them, of course, is Nick. "Shall we talk about today's prizes and penalties, players? First up is this wonderful table of prizes, each with an approximate retail value of $20!" He picks up one of the shoeboxes and waves it around for moment before replacing it. The boxes seems heavy.

"And if you can't find another wolf, I'm afraid there's this." Nick picks up a thin, white envelope from the table and holds it up to the light. "Looks like some juicy secrets in here. It'd be a shame if I were forced to give this to wolf team to read."

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Re: Day 5: Anything could be inside!

Postby Okaros » 08 Sep 2013, 09:18:59

Ionitor wrote:Second, Omega seems to be taking more of a backseat, and he's had a lot of starting bandwagons on humans (obviously not known at the time). Despite this, he hasn't received a single vote yet, when he would make a great place for a wolf to hide a vote.



I don't think he's done that much bandwagon-starting, but you're right that he's been really quiet and seems to have avoided any and all attention.

I'm *also* curious to see if this is just another in a long line of your placeholder votes. Are you serious about Omega this time? Or are you planning more last-minute shenanigans?
I kind of assume Okaros is out to backstab me until proven otherwise. - DOM

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Re: Day 5: Anything could be inside!

Postby Smirker » 08 Sep 2013, 09:21:09

OK, I've been digging on some old posts while I had some time this morning to try and see if I could see why they went for Simple_Simon in particular (as he ended up being a seer).

I'm not sure I can view his nods as true breadcrumbs that much; but I found his end vote on D4 on twdog to be interesting as it didn't add to the two top bandwagons at the time and only matched the bandwagon that was on him (in the Bandwagon range of 3 instead of the 5 as on the main bandwagon of dferrantino/Ozymandias) -- and it was at EOD so it wasn't like others would've had time to add to it. Unfortunately, without more of a clear breadcrumb trail to me, i find it hard to infer as much to see if there was a pattern or anything to his results.

Or maybe I'm just overthinking it. Regardless, I am not about to go down the personal rabbit-hole of theorycrafting that a quantum seer would do to me. In that path lies madness; wile it could be slightly amusing I sincerely doubt it'd add much other than spin me too far from the facts.

Ozy and others, don't forget to include the lynch targets (and their allegiance) to the seering tables you are doing. In order to later help determine if a Vote Seer can explain/clarify a person's results.

[e]: damn typos....

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Re: Day 5: Anything could be inside!

Postby Smirker » 08 Sep 2013, 09:39:07

Since I'm unsure of the timeframe when I get back later today; I'll go ahead and do a provisional vote on Ravebomb. Seeing how wild that vote activity was before I'm curious to see the results (and inferred results). based on him.

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Re: Day 5: Anything could be inside!

Postby Ozymandias » 08 Sep 2013, 09:53:00

Smirker is my top Wolf suspect, based on several different lines of evidence:

(1) Five players other than dferrantino voted for me yesterday:

Day 4 Vote Tally wrote:Ozymandias - 6 - Smirker, Nitestorm, dferrantino, RaveBomb, Iron Clad Burrito, rekard

I'm pretty sure at least one and perhaps even two of these five other players are Wolves.

And of those five, Smirker has acted most suspiciously.

(2) For example, late in Day 4, Smirker posted a rambling explanation of why even though I was right about dferrantino's tell of mauling DOM, he was still voting for me anyway, which to me reads like a Wolf grasping for a reason not to vote for a fellow Wolf.

(3) However, I actually his found his earlier post when he first voted for me even more interesting:

Smirker wrote:After giving it a little thought I've changed my vote to Ozymandias. The fact he was a candidate last night for an unblockable mauling and they took DOM instead? Extremely suspicious, but I've been more suspicious of him than usual anyway, especially with him wanting to get seer reveals on D3. [/poke]

Why? Because when I mentioned on Day 3 that ...

Ozymandias wrote:two other players have pretty clearly hinted that they've had a vision.

... Smirker was one of the players I was talking about-- if you look at his Day 2+3 posts, they contain breadcrumbs that he seered rekard and Ionitor as Wolves.

After Smirker posted the above quote when he first voted for me on Day 4, I tried to signal to him that I already knew he was a Seer ...

Ozymandias wrote:First of all: four players had ALREADY revealed themselves as Seers, and two more strongly hinted that they received visions. Are we clear on that, bucko?

... which of course references the infamous "bucko" code that Smirker himself used in Game XXV when he was the Seer and trying to leave breadcrumbs.

So to recap: Smirker voted for me ostensibly to find out why I wanted Seers to reveal themselves; I very clearly signaled him back to let him know that he had ALREADY revealed himself; and yet he still continued to vote for me?

That doesn't sound like something Smirker would do if he were Human.

(4) Lastly, there are a LOT of players claiming to be Seers (even with ICB's retraction). At least one of them is almost certainly a lying Wolf.

And I think "Paranoid Seer" would be a GREAT role for a Wolf to fake role claim, because you could accuse players early on of being Wolves, but then reveal that your visions are useless-- thereby explaining why the Wolves haven't mauled you yet.

So for all of these reasons, I think Smirker is the most likely Wolf.
Last edited by Ozymandias on 08 Sep 2013, 10:23:23, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Day 5: Anything could be inside!

Postby Ionitor » 08 Sep 2013, 09:53:13

Okaros wrote:I'm *also* curious to see if this is just another in a long line of your placeholder votes. Are you serious about Omega this time? Or are you planning more last-minute shenanigans?

If I had an expiring vig right now that I had to use, Omega would probably be my target. I'm typically serious in all of my votes, but when the votes become pointless (because there's too many bigger bandwagons) or when the reaction makes the person look less wolfy than others, I'll tend to change my vote to where it will help put/keep someone else in contention.

Edit: Except on the occasion when my vote is a flat-out lie, but I've cut way back on that. :P

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Re: Day 5: Anything could be inside!

Postby Ozymandias » 08 Sep 2013, 09:56:35

Current Vote Tally:
Smirker - 3 - ICB, leiden, Ozy
Griffypoo - 2 - rekard, Nitestorm
Omega - 2 - Ionitor, Okaros
Ionitor - 1 - stigmata
Rictus - 1 - Mister Furin
Admetus - 1 - San
Ravebomb - 1 - Smirker

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Re: Day 5: Anything could be inside!

Postby rekard » 08 Sep 2013, 10:07:37

From a more analytical perspective, on day 2 Omega did the third vote on ravebomb , tying him up with dferrantino, and yesterday, he along with okaros voted on simple simon buikding a wagon on him, putting him near the leaads when both Ozy and dferr were on the top. Since simon was a seer and he was mauled it could be seen as an attempt to save dferr. Hmmmm.

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Re: Day 5: Anything could be inside!

Postby Smirker » 08 Sep 2013, 10:19:49

Ozymandias wrote:Smirker is my top Wolf suspect, based on several different lines of evidence:

(1) Five players other than dferrantino voted for me yesterday:

Day 4 Vote Tally wrote:Ozymandias - 6 - Smirker, Nitestorm, dferrantino, RaveBomb, Iron Clad Burrito, rekard

I'm pretty sure at least one and perhaps even two of these five other players are Wolves.

And of those five, Smirker has acted most suspiciously.

(2) For example, late in Day 4, Smirker posted a rambling explanation of why even though I was right about dferrantino's tell of mauling DOM, he was still voting for me anyway, which to me reads like a Wolf grasping for a reason not to vote for a fellow Wolf.

(3) However, I actually his found his earlier post when he first voted for me even more interesting:

Smirker wrote:After giving it a little thought I've changed my vote to Ozymandias. The fact he was a candidate last night for an unblockable mauling and they took DOM instead? Extremely suspicious, but I've been more suspicious of him than usual anyway, especially with him wanting to get seer reveals on D3. [/poke]

Why? Because when I mentioned on Day 3 that ...

Ozymandias wrote:two other players have pretty clearly hinted that they've had a vision.

... Smirker was one of the players I was talking about-- if you look at his Day 2+3 posts, they contain breadcrumbs that he seered rekard and Ionitor as Wolves.

After Smirker posted the above quote when he first voted for me on Day 4, I tried to signal to him that I already knew he was a Seer ...

Smirker wrote:First of all: four players had ALREADY revealed themselves as Seers, and two more strongly hinted that they received visions. Are we clear on that, bucko?

... which of course references the infamous "bucko" code that Smirker himself used in Game XXV when he was the Seer and trying to leave breadcrumbs.

So to recap: Smirker voted for me ostensibly to find out why I wanted Seers to reveal themselves; I very clearly signaled him back to let him know that he had ALREADY revealed himself; and yet he still continued to vote for me?

That doesn't sound like something Smirker would do if he were Human.

(4) Lastly, there are a LOT of players claiming to be Seers (even with ICB's retraction). At least one of them is almost certainly a lying Wolf.

And I think "Paranoid Seer" would be a GREAT role for a Wolf to fake role claim, because you could accuse players early on of being Wolves, but then reveal that your visions are useless-- thereby explaining why the Wolves haven't mauled you yet.

So for all of these reasons, I think Smirker is the most likely Wolf.

Heh, glad I checked back on this before I go.

(1) If you're basing your rationale only on those who who actually voted for you; then that strikes me as very flawed, if a bit understandable.

(2) Yep, that was a mistake. I'll own up to it. Honestly, I am really REALLY disappointed with dferrantino that he is still maintaining this behaviour. I know that he even knows what a huge tell it is; and yet he kept it up.

(3) Whether or not I find *YOU* suspicious is still independent of the process of dferrantino's tell of mauling DOM. If anything this indicates that dferrantino was able to get his way over the other wolves for the maul vote.

I still think D3 is too early to seer reveal if you feel you have decent breadcrumbs out. Even with the increased confusion with the number of seers this is true because the QUALILTY of the seering has so much analysis to be done to it. Which patterns do the seer results follow and which could've been tampered with? IF we don't try and take these factors into account then you are just setting yourself up for manipulation IMO.

I wasn't worried about outing myself as a seer because of my inconclusive results (even considering the vote seer aspect). I still think doing as early as you were trying to have people do it though was not useful. And yes, I was pretty sure I was one of the seers you'd identified earlier, but I would also expect nothing less from the wolves to actually have this all worked out already; they are far less likely to overlook seer tells than players; although as experience has shown - that largely depends on who the wolves are and their level of time they put into the game.

Also: Please fix your quote that makes it look like I said that to those who skim your post.

(4) And Paranoid seer would be a great wolf claim -- not as good as a purely random one like the Insane Seer, but certainly probably in the second rank with the Naive seer for certain. That is kind of obvious though. Which is part of why I've made an effort to point out that even the naive and paranoid can have some use -- if they can manage to target the Cosmic Joke or Handsome Devil roles. But, that's a long shot; so certainly not enough of a reason to keep them around as even a pattern repeating seer can potentially deduce these roles with luck. All of that is not as important as vote analysis in the end; but the seering can be a great tool for the 'taking out the wolves' toolbox.

As for ignoring the 'bucko' keyword; I think I proved conclusively before that trying to use that level of breadcrumbs is actually counterproductive - and thus have ignored it since.

------

TLDR / End point: Do what you feel is right people, but do think for yourselves. Personally I was thinking better of Ozymandias before this argument of his; but I can see where it'd apply to him being a wolf or human - so I can't particularly ascribe malice to it.

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Re: Day 5: Anything could be inside!

Postby Ozymandias » 08 Sep 2013, 10:22:40

Smirker wrote:Also: Please fix your quote that makes it look like I said that to those who skim your post.

Fixed-- sorry about that.

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Re: Day 5: Anything could be inside!

Postby Visigoth » 08 Sep 2013, 10:28:02

I'm still kinda stuck looking at Ionitor, RaveBomb, and redead. The problem I have now is I'm not sure which is the better candidate. Each has done or had done something odd to them as I detailed in my other post. One other oddity I just noticed was that on Day 1 RaveBomb kinda ran away from making ties when he moved to Mortus. There were a number of people at 2 votes that he could have moved into ties at 3 but didn't. Sure his thing of loving to create ties shouldn't be seen as a hard and fast rule, but he does love them so and when given a chance went away from them.

Let's see what the Magic Eye says today
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Re: Day 5: Anything could be inside!

Postby Admetus » 08 Sep 2013, 10:38:12

I've been busy visiting friends and family, so I've kind of had to force myself to catch up on what I've missed in large chunks. It certainly reads differently when I'm not around to see the discussions as they take place, and instead all the GM answers defusing the drama are laid out already.

Rictus wrote:I'd ask Admetus and Ozy to look at Rekard's votes closely.

It was also a pretty nice surprise to see that request. I guess when you're looking for analytical, you'd normally ask Rekard, but in this case, heh. Anyway, I can't say no to a compliment, can I?

What I've done is go back through Rekard's voting history, and put context around each of the votes. Also, I marked where he was known to be online (because he posted) and put vote context around those -- because those were opportunities for Rekard to respond to discussion or votes with a change in his own vote. Now, I'll dump my notes in a spoiler, but they're really terrible to read, so I don't expect anyone to do that.

[+] detailed rekard notes
Rekard notes
Day 1 vote 1 - among an early field of 5 single votes, places a single vote
He's around and posting during a three-way tie for two votes between Meta4, Ozy, Ryvvn - doesn't change vote

Day 2 vote 1 - first vote out the gate, Ionitor
He's around to make a reply post to Ionitor half an hour later, but only Ionitor has voted since then.
Day 2 vote 2 - Ionitor lead 4-3-3-2-2-2-2. Rekard switches from Ionitor to dferrantino "to give the wagons balance," they're now 3-3-3-3-2-2-2.
He's around an hour later to admonish Aldax for making a random.org vote, doesn't switch. Votes have Mortus and RaveBomb in the lead of dfer, Ionitor, Nitestorm, 4-4-3-3-3.

Day 3 vote 1 - first vote out the gate, Ionitor. Also says he'd be willing to vote Ryvvn.
He's around a half hour later to respond to Ryvvn. Wants another wagon besides the very popular ICB-based RaveBomb. Still on Ionitor.
Makes another couple posts over a half hour, doesn't change votes, suggests Ryvvn is a wolf again, but doesn't switch.
Next morning (after Blindsniper vig), asks Rictus to give all the rest of his seer visions and claim each day because wolves. Count is Rave 6, Ryvvn 2, Rekard is still alone on Ionitor.
Votes haven't changed much (Rave 7, Ryvvn 3, Rekard alone on Ionitor). Defends RaveBomb as possible CJ, implies Ryvvn is wolfy again.
Shortly after, says he hasn't changed his vote because others' visions aren't reliable yet.
Ozy argues for all to reveal, Rekard says enough seers have come out, maybe it makes sense.
After argument between dfer and Ozy, Rekard sides with Ozy, says dfer may be trying to hard. Votes still haven't changed much.
Posts while votes are Rave 8, Ryvvn 5, FM 3, he's still alone on Ionitor. Is looking at Mortus kill votes, mentions Ryvvn as wolfy again.
Responds to defense of Ryvvn saying that's why he hasn't moved his vote to there. Says he's still thinking about it though. Votes have new options - Rave 7, Ryvvn 5, FM 4, Admetus 2, Rekard still alone on Ionitor.

Day 4 vote 1 - beaten to first vote by Smirker (voting Rekard), votes dferrantino. Also mentions Admetus and FurinMirado as potentially wolfy.
Says public "hi" to a networker and that he trusts him. But isn't the only networker dferrantino? The one he's voting for?
Next morning, defends Ozy. Votes are 5 dfer, 4 Ozy.
Half hour later, restates defense of Ozy (just because he's alive doesn't mean he's bad), worries about early heavily piled votes. Mentions FM as wolfy.
Cautions seers against seeing Ozy (he'd claimed contestant, said seers could calibrate on him), maybe it's a ploy to give wolves good seer discrimination.
Claims networker has told him of seer vision of stigmata as wolf. Says seers who already revealed should keep publishing their new visions.
Day 4 vote 2 - Simple_Simon alone. Votes are are now 5-4 Ozy over dfer. This reduced dfer's lead.
Warns Ozy might be HD.
Talks about twdog's visions. Votes have shrunk to 4-4-2 dfer Ozy blindsniper.
Tells ICB to join him on SSimon, for no reason.
Talks about leiden's visions.
Few hours later, talks about RaveBomb as wolf, questions if Ozy might have deflected suspicion from RaveBomb. Calls for more seer reveals. Votes are the same still.
An hour later, talks about vigilante count. Half hour later, presents the vig logic - we have only a wolf vig shot left or else the human would kill blindsniper. Votes are 4-4-2-2, dfer Ozy blindsniper simon.
Hour later, talking about the prize vote.
Near EOD, posts about the stakes -- dfer is a networker, Ozy would give info on Aldax visions. Votes are at 6-5-3-3 dfer ozy simon twdog.
Votes move to 5-5-4-3 dfer ozy twdog simon. Rekard says both Ozy and dfer sound wolfy to him. Says he faked stigmata=wolf networker vision.
Day 4 vote 3 - Ozymandias. Ionitor and redead moved to flush dfer, 7-5 dfer ozy. Rekard counters with a vote on Ozy.


Here's the highlights.

Day 1 - Vote and done. No surprise.

Day 2 - Starts the voting with Ionitor. When Ionitor is in danger, switches to dferrantino "to balance the wagons." Checks in later, Ionitor is no longer in danger and he stays.

Day 3 - Starts getting active in discussion. Puts the first vote of the day on Ionitor, and stays there all day. This is actually a bit odd because I would characterize him as one of the people constantly calling Ryvvn wolfy. Rekard mentions Ryvvn and how he doesn't believe him almost every post, right through the end, but leaves his vote as a singleton on Ionitor.

Day 4 - Votes dferrantino to start, even though the way I understand it, he also publicly said in thread that he trusted the networker who talked to him, which would have been dferrantino. Early on in the Ozy vs dfer argument, Rekard defends Ozy, but does move his vote off dfer when the wagons had gotten to 5-5. It seems like most of the day he was defending Ozy, but by the end of the day he's said he wouldn't be surprised if Ozy and dfer were both wolves. At the end, when late vote snipes push the count to 7-5 in favor of dferrantino, he jumps on Ozy's wagon.


So, to summarize the highlights (tl;dr): Could be said he saved Ionitor day 1. One of the most vocal Ryvvn-as-wolf speakers, but oddly kept his vote off Ryvvn. Confusing mix of attitudes towards dferrantino and Ozymandias during their showdown. Seems to have wanted dferrantino to live though he had voted on him early.


I'm going to recuse myself from voting on Rekard, and find someone else for today. After spending this long trying to ascribe motivations to his actions (both hidden and overt), I feel like I wouldn't give him a fair shake without trying to get some distance again.

More in a bit, as Zark would say.

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Re: Day 5: Anything could be inside!

Postby FurinMirado » 08 Sep 2013, 11:10:32

Switching my vote to Omega based on his vote history. I've been getting wolfy vibes from him for a couple days and I'm glad to see some other people picking up on it too. Omega, if you're a Seer, now would be a good time to reveal and list your results. We have so many Seers out already there's no reason to hide.

I'm tempted to vote for someone that has been targeted by Seers 2 or more times, but we will likely lynch a human that way and I don't want to give the wolves whatever secret information necklessone was alluding to.


I'm about 50/50 on Rictus right now which isn't any worse than a lot of other people on my list. In the event that you're legit, I apologize for screwing up your plan. I will let the Jailer decide if he believes Rictus' story or not.

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Re: Day 5: Anything could be inside!

Postby necklessone » 08 Sep 2013, 12:13:01

Omega - 3 - Ionitor, Okaros, FurinMirado
Smirker - 3 - Iron Clad Burrito, leiden, Ozymandias
Griffypoo - 2 - rekard, Nitestorm
RaveBomb - 2 - Smirker, Visigoth
Admetus - 1 - San
Ionitor - 1 - stigmata

No vote recorded (10) : Admetus, Aldax, blindsniper83, Griffypoo, Omega, RaveBomb, redead, Rictus, sphenodont, twdog

[+] Vote History
Smirker voted for Iron Clad Burrito (Retracted)
Iron Clad Burrito voted for Smirker
rekard voted for Griffypoo
leiden voted for Smirker
Smirker voted for Ionitor (Retracted)
Nitestorm voted for Griffypoo
Ozymandias voted for Rictus (Retracted)
FurinMirado voted for Rictus (Retracted)
stigmata voted for Ionitor
San voted for Admetus
Ionitor voted for Omega
Okaros voted for Omega
Smirker voted for RaveBomb
Ozymandias voted for Smirker
Visigoth voted for RaveBomb
FurinMirado voted for Omega


Under 6 hours left until end of day.

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Griffypoo
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Re: Day 5: Anything could be inside!

Postby Griffypoo » 08 Sep 2013, 12:33:04

Man, I was expecting this place to be dead on the weekend like GESC gets. This is a lot to sift through.

I'm still convinced blindsniper83 was a wolf vig until he used his power, so I'll keep my vote same as Friday in line with that reasoning. Glad to see I could snap up a couple votes. Now I feel like I'm actually playing. I wish San would speak up. I can't get a read on them at all with nothing but single word votes to go on, it's driving me nuts.

Also, sorry if I came off like a dick Friday. Posting from work ends up venting frustrations sometimes.

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necklessone
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Re: Day 5: Anything could be inside!

Postby necklessone » 08 Sep 2013, 12:39:55

Griffypoo wrote:Man, I was expecting this place to be dead on the weekend like GESC gets. This is a lot to sift through.

Most games it's pretty dead and then picks up again Sunday night. Yesterday was a bit of an anomaly.

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Re: Day 5: Anything could be inside!

Postby twdog » 08 Sep 2013, 12:46:29

Here are my results:

n1 was Rave as Seer
n2 was Ionitor as Seer
n3 was blindsniper83 as Wolf
n4 was smirker as Contestant

Unlike yesterday, I’m very dubious of my result on blindsniper83. If he’s a wolf, I don’t think this vision is proof of it. Honestly, I don't really believe in any of these visions. I don’t know what I am, but I don't think it’s the sane seer. I had pretty much assumed I was the vig seer, but I didn't get anything for seering blindsniper83 so I guess not.

Anyway, because these visions seem pretty unreliable, I don't mind revealing the specific roles I received. Maybe these results will help one of the useful seers.

---

Now, about voting.

I tend to be suspicious of rekard at this point. I get the feeling that he’s trying to subtly influence the conversation and that his actions and words don’t match up. That said, I’m often suspicious of rekard anyway, so this might not be anything. On the other hand, sometimes just because you always tend to be suspicious of someone doesn’t mean they’re human and you're jumping at nothing. See dom/dfer.

As to Omega, he’s also very suspicious to me, and I wouldn't mind seeing him lynched at all. That said, I'm going with RETRACTED WAS rekard for the moment, but that vote isn't set in stone. I’m interested in what else we see today.
Last edited by twdog on 08 Sep 2013, 16:05:49, edited 1 time in total.
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Rictus
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Re: Day 5: Anything could be inside!

Postby Rictus » 08 Sep 2013, 12:50:30

Griffypoo wrote:Man, I was expecting this place to be dead on the weekend like GESC gets. This is a lot to sift through.


It usually is. My own part in kicking off this crapstorm was I wanted FM plenty of time to sit on my PM.

Looking at the current votes:

Omega - 3 - Ionitor, Okaros, FurinMirado
Smirker - 3 - Iron Clad Burrito, leiden, Ozymandias
Griffypoo - 2 - rekard, Nitestorm
RaveBomb - 2 - Smirker, Visigoth
Admetus - 1 - San
Ionitor - 1 - stigmata


I'll cast my lot with those who are voting for Omega. Not because I've got my own strong feelings about him, but because I'm thinking Ionitor, Okraros and Furin are humans.

I'm leaning less on Rekard being wolfish after my own close look and Admetus's comments... although the part about voting for Dferr but 'trusting him' in the Day thread is problematic.
-----------

I'd ask the Jailer to protect me tonight. If I'm a wolf, no loss. But if I'm a human, there's no way the wolves would let a Seer / Networker live. More info tomorrow.

(necklessone here - this post reads very strongly to me as a vote for Omega. I've asked for clarification, but it will stand as a vote until we get it).

Edit: Bolded my vote.
Last edited by Rictus on 08 Sep 2013, 16:44:57, edited 2 times in total.
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Iron Clad Burrito
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Re: Day 5: Anything could be inside!

Postby Iron Clad Burrito » 08 Sep 2013, 13:11:49

Furin, when will we learn your night 4 target?

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Re: Day 5: Anything could be inside!

Postby FurinMirado » 08 Sep 2013, 13:32:50

Iron Clad Burrito wrote:Furin, when will we learn your night 4 target?



FurinMirado wrote:
Ozymandias wrote:
FurinMirado wrote:Night 4: No Dossier (Either I was role-blocked, jailed, or my target was jailed)

Who was your target?

I'm not sure it's safe to reveal that at this juncture. I was going to reveal it near the EOD, unless we think this info is critical.

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Re: Day 5: Anything could be inside!

Postby necklessone » 08 Sep 2013, 14:48:24

Coming up on three hours. Votes and night targets, folks.


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