Day 4: The Tavern

[The Fairy Catmother]

After the freakish incident in the church, everyone was even more suspicious of one another. But still, life must go on. They milled about the town market, browsing the many varieties of buckled boots without much interest.

As often happens when people are gathered together, gossip began to spread. At first, it was whispered that Hellheart couldn't be trusted, but attention swiftly shifted to Jrsthethird.

Almost unanimously, the townspeople started after him. However, Jrsthethird was too quick for them. He darted through the crowd, leaping out of arm's reach just in time. He turned a corner, and by the time anyone could catch up, he was gone.

Everyone returned to the market to go about their business. Zark's body was draped over the produce stand, jauntily clad in a Rainbow Brite costume.

Deciding that this was all getting a little weird, the remaining citizens dejectedly headed to the tavern for a pint. (Yes, a tavern in Puritan Salem. Presumably, the barkeep is the same person who manufactures 1980s cartoon costumes.)

There was no lynch today.

7-zark-7 - mauled - human vig

Giles Corey - You are a Puritan, and one of the few people who understand how dangerous these girls are to the town. You are a vigilante.

FINAL TALLY:

Jrsthethird - 7 - dferrantino, Rictus, rekard, Blindsniper83, 7-zark-7, Admetus, Hellheart
Hellheart - DastardlyOldMan
rekard - sphenodont
Rictus - Jrsthethird
DastardlyOldMan - +1

Day 4 ends at 9pm PST.

[Hellheart]

I'm assuming we've found the Alpha.

[+] Day 1

Ryvvn - 3 - Rictus, rekard, stdio, Hellheart
Admetus - 2 - Ryvvn, dferrantino, DOM
Hellheart - 2 - CAD, Zark
sphenodont - 2 - Ryvvn, stdio
dferrantino - 1 - Admetus, Zark
Zark - 1 - JRSthethird, Hellheart
Rictus - 1 - Gungnir
CAD - 1 - Blindsniper

[05:33] Ryvvn for Admetus ( 1 )
[15:02] Admetus for dferrantino ( 1 )
[19:26] JRSthethird for Zark ( 1 )
[25:59] Zark for dferrantino ( 2 )
[35:55] Rictus for Ryvvn ( 1 )
[36:00] dferrantino for Admetus ( 2 )
[37:00] Hellheart for Zark ( 2 )
[41:34] DOM for Admetus ( 3 )
[41:53] CAD for Hellheart ( 1 )
[41:58] Blindsniper for CAD ( 1 )
[43:03] rekard for Ryvvn ( 2 )
[43:37] Gungnir for Rictus ( 1 )
[43:49] stdio for Ryvvn ( 3 )
[44:15] Zark for Hellheart ( 2 ) ----------------> dferrantino ( 1 )
[45:53] Hellheart for Ryvvn ( 4 ) ----------------> Zark ( 1 )
[48:34] Ryvvn for sphenodont ( 1 ) ----------------> Admetus ( 2 )
[48:58] stdio for sphenodont ( 2 ) ----------------> Ryvvn ( 3 )

[+] Day 2

sphenodont - 4 - Penalty, DOM, Rictus, Hellheart, Zark
stdio - 4 - CAD, Admetus, sphenodont, JRSthethird, Hellheart
Blindsniper - 2 - JRSthethird, dferrantino, Hellheart
Zark - 1 - rekard, Hellheart
Hellheart - 1 - stdio
dferrantino - 1 - Blindsniper
Rictus - 0 - sphenodont

Vote Manipulations:
stdio vote nullified ---> Hellheart ( 0 ) ---> Source: stdio
Rictus vote moved ---> sphenodont ( 3 ) ---> stdio ( 5 ) ---> Source: ?

[00:01] Penalty for sphenodont ( 1 )
[09:26] DOM for sphenodont ( 2 )
[12:58] JRSthethird for Blindsniper ( 1 )
[13:17] rekard for Zark ( 1 )
[13:25] Rictus for sphenodont ( 3 )
[14:29] sphenodont for Rictus ( 1 )
[14:59] Hellheart for Zark ( 2 )
[16:15] CAD for stdio ( 1 )
[16:21] Admetus for stdio ( 2 )
[19:28] dferrantino for Blindsniper ( 2 )
[19:46] Blindsniper for dferrantino ( 1 )
[20:16] Hellheart for sphenodont ( 4 ) ----------------> Zark ( 1 )
[20:51] sphenodont for stdio ( 3 ) ----------------> Rictus ( 0 )
[20:59] JRSthethird for stdio ( 4 ) ----------------> Blindsniper ( 1 )
[21:21] Hellheart for stdio ( 5 ) ----------------> sphenodont ( 3 )
[21:30] Zark for sphenodont ( 4 )
[22:55] stdio for Hellheart ( 1 )
[23:00] Hellheart for Blindsniper ( 2 ) ----------------> stdio ( 4 )

[+] Day 3

JRSthethird - 7 - dferrantino, Rictus, rekard, Blindsniper, Zark, Admetus, Hellheart
Hellheart - 1 - DOM, JRSthethird
Rictus - 1 - JRSthethird
rekard - 1 - sphenodont

Vote Manipulations:
DOM +1 Vote ---> DOM ( 1 ) ---> Source: ?

[09:02] DOM for Hellheart ( 1 )
[09:30] JRSthethird for Hellheart ( 2 )
[12:30] dferrantino for JRSthethird ( 1 )
[13:54] Rictus for JRSthethird ( 2 )
[17:05] sphenodont for rekard ( 1 )
[18:58] rekard for JRSthethird ( 3 )
[19:19] Blindsniper for JRSthethird ( 4 )
[19:53] Zark for JRSthethird ( 5 )
[20:25] Admetus for JRSthethird ( 6 )
[20:47] Hellheart for JRSthethird ( 7 )
[20:51] JRSthethird for Rictus ( 1 ) ----------------> Hellheart ( 1 )

[Hellheart]

We now have an odd number of players, so the no-lynch bought us a day for certain. I assume today is not lynch-or-lose. I would hope we'd be informed.

I don't think I've ever played in a game with an Alpha. It's possible that JRS called attention to himself simply because he can't die and it'll make several humans look bad. I don't think it's the case here, but it's a possibility. If it was a genuine move to protect a wolf, that wolf would have to be sphenodont or Blindsniper.

Rictus, I'd really like your thoughts in particular. JRS voting for you is going to get you a lot of scrutiny no matter what you do. It's a good time to try to clear yourself.

[dferrantino]

What the hell Rick? We voted for Jrs but he didn't die?

Yeah that happens sometimes.

Isn't that like, against the rules or something?

No Morty, I've been to a few of these, the rules are always different. Sometimes they just don't die, usually you have to kill everyone on their team first.

You know, this all sounds a little crazy Rick.

Look Morty I don't make the rules. Anyway I think I'm almost done fixing the portal device so we've only gotta do this for a few more days.

Okay Rick. Wh-who are we gonna vote for today then?

Well we can't vote for JRS again, that just makes it easier for us to lose. Also we all wasted yesterday, those votes are meaningless. I think it's time we just said fuck it and picked someone at random.

What the hell Rick? That's a terrible idea!

You got anything better?

How about

#Vote for: DastardlyOldMan

? He tried to get everyone to vote for Hellheart yesterday and he started a vote on a guy with a penalty the day before. I don't know, it feels a little weird.

I don't know Morty. JRS followed him yesterday.

Well fine, do you have anything better?

[DastardlyOldMan]

I don't like that train at all, and I don't like the late votes on it much, but I'm going to aim elsewhere. I may be over-thinking, but the late votes all seem to realize that they're late and joining a giant bandwagon. I'd normally think that Admetus and HH are wolfy for their vote-player1, talk about player2 points, but the way that they did it strikes me as legit.

So, I'm going the other direction, and looking at the earlier bits. I don't think the wolves would want to reveal the Alpha, but that did steamroll in a fairly unexpected way.

#Vote for: Rictus

[Hellheart]

The train was inevitable given what happened the prior day, the way the post was worded, and that he tried to push another player early in the day. I've made posts like that; it's a death sentence. The wolves just give up on you once this becomes obvious.

I think JRS moved to protect a wolf. Given that Zark was the only player left who hadn't voted and stdio had yet to vote for sphenodont, JRS would have to move to keep

#Vote for: sphenodont

alive.

If sphenodont is a wolf, I'm with dferrantino here in thinking that DOM is most likely the third wolf.

[Hellheart]

The early self-defense vote from sphenodont, which pushed stdio to 3 and not to a tie, felt odd to me with Zark still left to vote. But it makes sense if JRS and sphenodont are both wolves because JRS is already on Blindsniper. sphenodont votes for stdio so Zark doesn't vote for Blindsniper, JRS now has an excuse to switch to stdio to make it 4/4, and now Zark will more than likely vote for stdio to make it a 5/5 tie.

Really confident that sphenodont is a wolf here.

[Rictus]

I don't like that train at all, and I don't like the late votes on it much, but I'm going to aim elsewhere. I may be over-thinking, but the late votes all seem to realize that they're late and joining a giant bandwagon. I'd normally think that Admetus and HH are wolfy for their vote-player1, talk about player2 points, but the way that they did it strikes me as legit.

So, I'm going the other direction, and looking at the earlier bits. I don't think the wolves would want to reveal the Alpha, but that did steamroll in a fairly unexpected way.

#Vote for: Rictus

#Vote for: DastardlyOldMan

What's the word for when you describe someone else doing something, while doing it yourself? Karl Rovian, perhaps?

I think your post is a carefully worded attempt to get some credibility with Admetus and Hellheart.

[Hellheart]

Rictus is most likely human. Sooner or later my read on him is going to be wrong, but it hasn't happened yet.

[Rictus]

I will check back in later to see if anything exciting is going to happen (like if I'm up for lynch or if the seer decides to reveal).

DastardlyOldMan: 2 : dferrantino, Rictus
Rictus: 1 : DastardlyOldMan
Sphenodont: 1 : Hellheart

Yet to vote:
JRSthethird - Alpha Witch
Admetus
rekard
Blindsniper
sphenodont


One note for HH: We need to bandwagon somebody, so the alpha can't swing the vote with a snipe. (It seems obvious, but I only bring it up since you mentioned you haven't played with an Alpha before...Jrs still gets to vote).

Edit: and obviously I hope I'm not the bandwagon

[Jrsthethird]

Let's

#Vote for: Rictus

[sphenodont]

HH, you're fixating on me again. I thought the court-appointed counselor had a nice long talk about that with you, didn't she? Don't read too much into a self-defense play and indignant attitude when someone starts with a penalty and ends up with a train of four votes from out of seeming nowhere. I'm pretty sure you're human, but derailed in your analysis.

I think Rictus is my only not-a-witch right now. JRS's vote on him doesn't make any sense as a wolf move, and he's mostly making sense in his analysis.

I'm liking what dferrantino is saying, so I'm inclined to trust him with a side-vibe of helpful wolf.

Admetus and rekard seem to be phoning it in, but to be fair, a lot of us are doing that this game. Wanting to see a bit more analysis from them.

I don't know what to make of DOM. Voting for a player with a penalty is out of character, but would he make a play like that just because he knows no wolf would ever go that route? I think maybe yes.

#Vote for: DastardlyOldMan

[Hellheart]

HH, you're fixating on me again. I thought the court-appointed counselor had a nice long talk about that with you, didn't she? Don't read too much into a self-defense play and indignant attitude when someone starts with a penalty and ends up with a train of four votes from out of seeming nowhere. I'm pretty sure you're human, but derailed in your analysis.

Would you care to present an alternative explanation for JRS's vote change?

I am more than willing to re-evaluate. I was already moving away from Zark on Day 3. But if you don't present an alternative explanation I can stomach, I see no reason to change my logic.

[sphenodont]

The way I read it, he voted to tie up the score on a Day Two, which is a time-honored tradition and makes perfect sense.

We could ask you the same, since you changed your vote promptly after, and onto the same target.

[Hellheart]

So he changed his vote as the alpha to initiate a tie, thus calling attention to himself when he otherwise could have been quiet and safe? Why would he do that?

Or are you suggesting that he's not the alpha?

[sphenodont]

He's obviously the alpha, I just think he was trying to pass as human with a proper human play. Alphas don't reveal themselves on the second day of the game.

(Unless someone has a lynch cancelling power, in which case they ought to speak up, because it'll end up being big damn waste of time if we keep assuming we're sitting on a proper alpha. And if the wolves have an alpha, they don't have a lynch null power too.)

[Hellheart]

*nods* If other people are willing to buy that explanation, I have no issue backing off for now.

I'll vote DOM over Rictus. If people wagon you because they think you're a wolf, I'll vote you over DOM. But I'll stop pushing you.

[Blindsniper83]

#Vote for: Dom

i agree that we cant let JrS get a way to snipe vote and essentially control the vote

[DastardlyOldMan]

The only significant point I'll respond to here is that I'm deadset against *NOT* voting for someone because they have a penalty vote, and we need to get away from that mindset. Otherwise, there's *zero* point in having a (public) penalty vote, because all it does is give people that missed a vote even more of an advantage. And since people that miss a vote have reduced vote history, saving them until end-game doesn't help out (as we've seen before, when a wolf with multiple missed votes wins the game).

Since I'm going to flip Puritan tomorrow morning, I'd look at combinations - probably three wolves, maybe four in total (you'll know based on lynch-or-lose messaging). There are going to be some patterns in the pairings.

HH mentioned that sphenodont and I were likely to be wolves together - that makes little sense since i pushed him with the penalty votes - granted, I'm an early vote, but that's also because of my posting times (and honestly, most votes are coming in much, much later in the day than normal).

I'll poke around for another ~30 minutes or so, but not going to be around until EOD. You're all barking up the wrong tree.

Also, because I can't believe no one's used this line yet: I'm not a witch, I'm your wife!

[Rictus]

The only significant point I'll respond to here is that I'm deadset against *NOT* voting for someone because they have a penalty vote, and we need to get away from that mindset. Otherwise, there's *zero* point in having a (public) penalty vote, because all it does is give people that missed a vote even more of an advantage. And since people that miss a vote have reduced vote history, saving them until end-game doesn't help out (as we've seen before, when a wolf with multiple missed votes wins the game).

Regardless of how you flip, I agree with you on this... I think you brought it up a game or two ago (or at least, that's the first I recall it being discussed).

And that's why I followed you on sphenodont back on day 2.

edit:
DastardlyOldMan: 4 : dferrantino, Rictus, sphenodont, blindsniper
Rictus: 2 : DastardlyOldMan, JRSthethird
Sphenodont: 1 : Hellheart

Yet to vote:
Admetus
rekard

(very surprised that they haven't voted.)

[Hellheart]

There has to be 3 wolves because we'd already be at lynch-or-lose today if there were 4.

If sphenodont is a wolf, I think the 3rd wolf had to either be on sphenodont, or had to not be around anytime near EOD. The tie looks a lot less suspicious if the player is moving off of a singleton. DOM is more suspicious to me than Rictus. But I can't see wolf-DOM voting for human-sphenodont. That's my struggle here.

[Admetus]

(Pre-post edit, I was working on this a while. I haven't been feeling well recently, sorry for the lack of participation.)

[+] Many thoughts or ramblings

I don't think 14 starting players can support 4 wolves with an alpha. (edit: No Hellheart, we're at 9 according to the rules thread tally, so 4 wouldn't be a warning now.) 3 including the alpha is my guess since there are lots of human specials.

Also, I agree in principle that the penalty vote is more of an advantage than a penalty in this group of players. I don't think the answer is to kill some people with penalty votes just because. I'd prefer to rework the penalty to something else, like losing ties. That's a discussion for another time, though.

Going back in the thread a bit, I'm also more suspicious of the votes after the point where a giant train looks inevitable. (Yes, that includes my vote position, but I can rule myself out.) It would have been a huge benefit to the humans if Zark had taken his shot yesterday. That moves Hellheart further up the list of wolf candidates, but I read yesterday as Hellheart holding his vote for defensive and information reasons, then ending up on the inevitable wagon. Plus I'm still not reading his posts as all that wolfy yet, so he gets a pass for now. Another person that would be more suspicious would be Blindsniper, except for the way and when he votes.

Rictus's posts are bugging me a tiny bit less. There are a few places in the past days where I've reacted as "a wolf wouldn't do that, unless..." Still suspicious, but pausing because there's no interesting interactions with Jrsthethird that I can see.

Having Jrsthethird as alpha, I think Day 2 is still suspicious to me. The big question is why move at all. Yes, there's a bit of a pileup on sphenodont, but if you're a wolf, why do you care, unless spheno is also a wolf? And it's not like it was that uneven. Nobody was calling for consolidation. There was a 4 vs 3 wagon. The whole thing about ties and such is to hope for scenarios where a wolf moves to avoid losing a teammate. A wolf did move, it was Jrsthethird.

That makes sphenodont the most suspicious to me.

#Vote for: sphenodont

I'll be around to watch near end of day. If Jrs moves I'll consider moving, too.

[Hellheart]

Wow. That was one hell of a thought fragment. Let's try again.

DOM is more suspicious than Rictus, but I can't see DOM as a wolf unless sphenodont is also a wolf. Wolf-DOM is going to care about not getting heat. That vote is really hard to justify if sphenodont's a human, but buys DOM enormous credibility if sphenodont is a wolf. So the only wolf combo that makes any sense to me for wolf-DOM is DOM-JRS-sphenodont.

I'm fine with lynching DOM because he's had a couple of really skeezy-feeling posts. I'm just nervous because virtually any other wolf candidate will have more than one sensible wolf combination.

[dferrantino]

Dunno when EOD is but I'm going to bed and think

#Vote for: sphenodont

is more likely than DOM at this point.

[Jrsthethird]

I'll be around to watch near end of day. If Jrs moves I'll consider moving, too.

I can move, but why do you care? Am I really going to vote for a wolf? If I did would you really believe it? Face it, I'm a sitting duck in the Day threads; anything I say is viewed with wolf-tinted glasses. I guess I can tie sphenodont with DOM (FUR TEH TIEZ, rite?!), but then you considering a move only saves him.

#Vote for: rekard

, you're so quiet. Where are you? No posts means no information. Consider this a penalty vote for leaving us dry on cat GIFs today.

[Admetus]

I think I have the right person, but at the same time, it's tied and you could pick. I kind of don't like that?

[rekard]

Hello all. I have been very busy guys. I know you miss me and all that, but well when the job calls, I gotta go. I love my moolah.

Now now now. Seems that JRS is a sort of "badass". As in can't be lynched alpha wolf thing. Well yay us right? Irony though, that when he actually needed to be vigged, he wasn't vigged. Hah.

Now now, did you fell a shiver? For a moment there, I agreed with Hellheart. But then I remembered a mantra: "Do reverse of Hellheart".
So I think he is probably wrong with sphenodont. Kidding aside,Sphenodont makes logical sense, but it seems too easy. A JRS alpha can move around and confuse people all over. And that's the thing. An alpha's actions aren't too reliable.

Like my momma always said "Never trust JRS when he is an alpha. Those types of guy will get you pregnant, go out for a cigarrette and not be back for 20 years, until you win the lottery. He will come back saying he made a mistake on a gamble to get a chunk of your money and some naughty time. Then you'll give him a million bucks and he will go and spend it on strippers". So yeah, Jrs actions make noise to me.

Now, I'm not convinced by the votes for DOM. The reasoning is not something I am convinced for. Though he looks defensive a bit. He looks more like the DOM that overthinks stuff a bit.

Rictus is blunt as always but to be honest I distrust him since he has won as a lone wolf two times. He expresses more worry about being lynched when he is either a wolf or he has an important role. It's something I noticed that repeats as a pattern. The thing is which?

Dferrantino has something that looks iffy to me, I can't pinpoint, and the same goes with Blindsniper. Actually Blindsniper was very fast to agree with Rictus on making a bigger wagon. If DOM is human, and Blindsniper or Rictus is a wolf, it would be rather convenient to attempt to make a big wagon in fear of snipes or vote powers.

I'll go with Blindsniper.

Because from the three above, I don't have a strong conviction at all.
Though, sphenodont, why shouldn't more people vote for you?

[Hellheart]

I don't like sitting on a tie here either with JRS probably around to vote.

I really don't like rekard making an off-wagon vote for the above reason.

[rekard]

I'll be around to watch near end of day. If Jrs moves I'll consider moving, too.

I can move, but why do you care? Am I really going to vote for a wolf? If I did would you really believe it? Face it, I'm a sitting duck in the Day threads; anything I say is viewed with wolf-tinted glasses. I guess I can tie sphenodont with DOM (FUR TEH TIEZ, rite?!), but then you considering a move only saves him.

#Vote for: rekard

, you're so quiet. Where are you? No posts means no information. Consider this a penalty vote for leaving us dry on cat GIFs today.

Because well sorry. I have to take a nap Mr. Wolphie. Maybe you have a crush on Salem saberhagen don't you?

And also becasue I mean, you're like dumb. And And...
I'm running out of words. Saleeeeeeeeem!



Pheew. Thanks for the save.

[rekard]

I don't like sitting on a tie here either with JRS probably around to vote.

I really don't like rekard making an off-wagon vote for the above reason.

I don't like to vote for people I don't think are wolves. I have done it before and I'll do it whenever I want. Though Salem Saberhagen tells me over here that DOM is more of a cat guy it seems, and sphenodont is more on the wolfy side than DOM. Butwho knows. We'll see in the same TWGchannel at the same TWGhour.

[Hellheart]

Swapping to

#Vote for: DOM

because I'd rather we choose who dies than JRS. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. I'm used to getting heat for that shit.

[rekard]

Swapping to

#Vote for: DOM

because I'd rather we choose who dies than JRS. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. I'm used to getting heat for that shit.

Exactly. You and I are more alike than you would think.

[Hellheart]

Wait I'm an idiot dferrantino switched.

#Vote for: sphenodont.

[Admetus]

I'm also watching, no worries. But also of course I like spheno more than DOM, or I'd be voting for him right now.

[The Fairy Catmother]

Day 4 has ended.