Day 7: The Town Square

Your god can't save you from yourselves
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Re: Day 7: The Town Square

Postby Hellheart » 15 Jan 2017, 16:17:19

DastardlyOldMan wrote:
Hellheart wrote:I'm not sure why stdio used his power on himself, but it really looked like that's what happened.

stdio nullified his own vote and then intentionally navigated himself into a suicidal tie?

I find that really, really, really unlikely.

No. Stdio nullified his own vote with the intention of voting late. I have no idea what the hell he was doing with that.

He certainly never expected to actually be up for the lynch, otherwise it's suicidal (as you said). It's unfortunate for him that the wolves decided he should die. It could have been fortunate for him that I correctly read his vote on me as something odd rather than a tactic, and moved my vote away to re-establish the tie.

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Re: Day 7: The Town Square

Postby Hellheart » 15 Jan 2017, 16:20:57

Rekard as a wolf traitor is a really interesting theory. That would remove the need for another player to be on rekard's team.

The biggest issue with that is simply that Admetus got sticky on rekard and wouldn't move away. If he believes that rekard is a wolf, then killing DOM almost always wins it for the wolves. If the humans try to lynch Admetus the wolves probably win, if they lynch rekard then the wolves win by lynching JRS.

Admetus is not going to get sticky on wolf-rekard that close to endgame.

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Re: Day 7: The Town Square

Postby Hellheart » 15 Jan 2017, 16:24:41

I believe that DOM does have the power he claims to have. My worry with DOM's claimed power is that it can very easily be a neutral power

Human Vote Powers:
  • Targeted player wins ties
  • Targeted player's vote is nullified
  • Targeted player's vote is doubled

Non-Human Vote Powers:
  • Targeted player gets an anonymous +1 vote
  • You vote for the targeted player

The human powers have been supportive or nullifying. The non-human powers are explicitly capable of killing specific players in an undetectable way.

DOM's claimed power lies squarely in the latter category.

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Re: Day 7: The Town Square

Postby Hellheart » 15 Jan 2017, 16:38:17

If rekard DID have an ally, the place to look would be the DOM-rekard wagons that killed rekard.

Dferrantino votes for DOM, making it 2-2. This is less than 20 minutes before EOD. At that point, Admetus is on rekard and I am on DOM.

rekard votes for Rictus. DOM switches from Admetus to rekard 6 minutes later, making it 3-2.

I attempt to convince Admetus to switch to DOM, stating that I don't want a tie where JRS decides the lynch. This would happen if rekard voted for DOM, making it 3-3.

rekard says sphenodont might have been the Seer. Instead of convincing Admetus to lynch DOM by sitting on DOM and arguing - which I could have done! - I swap to rekard in apparent disgust. I realize my initial justification was wrong, but still opt to stay on rekard instead of letting JRS decide the lynch.

Notably here, rekard never changes his vote. JRS snipes rekard, who is already leading 4-1. I swap back to DOM in response, who ends up dying 4-2.

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Re: Day 7: The Town Square

Postby Hellheart » 15 Jan 2017, 16:42:08

Motherfucker. MOTHERFUCKER. Player loses ties.

Player LOSES TIES.

Remember when sphenodont and DOM were tied 3-3? Remember when rekard explicitly did not vote for either of them and just cast a very late off-wagon vote for Blindsniper?

If rekard and DOM are on a team, and DOM targeted sphenodont (a likely candidate that day even before JRS is revealed as the alpha) with a "loses ties" ability, guess where rekard is voting?

Anywhere but those two wagons.

E: You can make a different argument for rekard-JRS, where JRS didn't snipe because both players were non-neutrals, so he didn't care who died. It still makes rekard's off-wagon vote look just...odd. Like he does that, but that vote came LATE. Like really late.

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Re: Day 7: The Town Square

Postby Jrsthethird » 15 Jan 2017, 17:26:04

Hellheart wrote:E: You can make a different argument for rekard-JRS, where JRS didn't snipe because both players were non-neutrals, so he didn't care who died. It still makes rekard's off-wagon vote look just...odd. Like he does that, but that vote came LATE. Like really late.


To be clear, I was 100% hunting wolves at that point. If I had thought sphenodont were a wolf (I had the same information on player roles as you at that point), I would have sniped him anyway.

Unfortunately, everything I was doing was me masquerading as an alpha wolf, which severely hampers anything I say or vote, and I even pointed it out that day to Admetus, who said he would be watching my vote for a possible switch:

jrsthethird wrote:I can move, but why do you care? Am I really going to vote for a wolf? If I did would you really believe it? Face it, I'm a sitting duck in the Day threads; anything I say is viewed with wolf-tinted glasses. I guess I can tie sphenodont with DOM (FUR TEH TIEZ, rite?!), but then you considering a move only saves him


I purposefully abstained from that day's wagons by voting on rekard, because I did not want my "alpha wolf" status to affect votes in any way. Any vote I placed would appear that I was voting a human. Do you really want me to take the chance of giving sphenodont human cred by having a known "alpha" locked on him?

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Re: Day 7: The Town Square

Postby Hellheart » 15 Jan 2017, 17:27:59

What if DOM is a fake wolf? Think about this from Admetus' POV:

You're the Alpha. You just managed to lynch rekard over your fellow wolf at F7. You even got fake-alpha JRS to join in the snipe! You got this game in the bag.

Then F5 says rekard is "not-a-wolf" and you're at *potential* lynch-or-lose with two wolves.

In Admetus' shoes, I'm going to be really pissed and confused. I'm going to demand that DOM tell me wtf is going on. And I am going to declare with my dying breath that DOM is a filthy stinking neutral.

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Re: Day 7: The Town Square

Postby Hellheart » 15 Jan 2017, 17:32:35

I'm willing to buy what JRS is saying mainly because he's basically been checked out of the game and has been super hands-off. It feels like somebody trying to disappear rather than a player with an agenda.

DOM has been triggering me for most of this game. I am heavily inclined to vote DOM here, but I'd like to see his argument for lynching JRS. Or me.

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Re: Day 7: The Town Square

Postby The Fairy Catmother » 15 Jan 2017, 17:51:00

The GM says this:


Just over 3 hours til EOD.

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Re: Day 7: The Town Square

Postby DastardlyOldMan » 15 Jan 2017, 18:24:26

Two arguments.

JRS: He has some kind of unkillable / alpha state. Every other unkillable has been protected by someone else. Hellheart -> dferrantino. Admetus -> sphenodont. JRS -> ??? (I believe the answer here is rekard).

Rictus: This is based on stdio being subverted. Hellheart and JRS are both unkillables, and if at least one of them is being truthful, the unkillables don't seem to have any extra powers. There's an extra power out there. I just can't trust the GA claim after it was clear that it was uncontested. If he is the GA on the final day, you don't wait so that you can counterclaim, you *claim*. Fast.

Hellheart: No real argument, I think you're the ~alpha human. Since both you and JRS have stated that you don't have additional powers, I have to believe you (you wouldn't *both* lie about it). Do we need a GA with an alpha human?

I'm not finding anything else, but I'm going to switch to Rictus at this point. I'm just not buying the late claim.

#Vote for: Rictus

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Re: Day 7: The Town Square

Postby Hellheart » 15 Jan 2017, 18:42:23

I can't vote for Rictus. I was pissed at how he was being because I know how good lategame-human Rictus is. He's the GA. It makes sense to me.

I just did not want him to give up if he was human. The parity danger should be terrified of lategame Rictus.

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Re: Day 7: The Town Square

Postby Rictus » 15 Jan 2017, 19:24:45

(for DOM: I wasn't going to claim GA until the seer popped out. And then after he died it didn't seem as useful. as (weak) evidence see my post on Day 4:
I will check back in later to see if anything exciting is going to happen (like if I'm up for lynch or if the seer decides to reveal).


-------------
Ok, I went back and read a bunch of posts and this is my decision:

1.
#Vote for: DastardlyOldMan


2. My attempt to explain what the hell is going on:

We have 14 players.

2 girl witches. They don't know about the real witches. - Admetus, sphendont
2 real witches. They know about the girl witches. rekard, and either DOM or Hellheart
1 neutral person hunting the real witches. Jrsthethird
9 other humans.

3. Reasons for voting DOM.

a) "Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth." -- Arthur Conan Doyle

b)that post from Blindsniper about Hellheart and him sticking together seems pretty legitimately a seer statement.


c)Yesterday, the votes were:
Admetus - 2 - DOM, Hellheart
DastardlyOldMan - Admetus
Hellheart - Jrsthethird
Jrsthethird - Rictus

Admetus posted:
Enjoy your loss... I didn't make my vote switch in time. =/

Hellheart, you missed an obvious scenario. And I couldn't point it out to you. That's why.


Who was he talking to? I originally thought he was talking to all of us ... but I think it makes sense if he was talking to DastardlyOldMan in the first line. If he was talking to Hellheart, he wouldn't have put Hellheart's name in the second line.

d) rekard did a soft defend on DOM back on Day 4.

e) I have gone back and forth on Hellheart being either a target or the lead witch.

f) GA talk: I don't know if the remaining witch has a maul option. If there is a maul, then I blocked it last night and the witch knows exactly who I *can't* save tonight. Thus, lynch or lose today.

I GA'd Hellheart last night. If hellheart was the lead witch, then he could have (theoretically) mauled someone last night.


Final point: There were a *bunch* of weird moves in this game. Admetus pushed sphendont and let him die on Day 4. Then he did the same on rekard on Day 5. And then he hard defended JRS on Day 6! Perhaps the ultimate lone wolf play???

stdio did his whole weird thing on Day 2, Spheno put +1 on DOM.

I'm still not sure if the two witch teams were competing or cooperating. And for the record, I'm still not even considering a conversion game. But if I would, my vote would definitely be for DOM in that case. :)
Charming, to the last.
.

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Re: Day 7: The Town Square

Postby Hellheart » 15 Jan 2017, 19:46:31

Different reasoning, same general conclusion. JRS, remember you need to change your vote from yourself if it's still there.

#Vote for: DastardlyOldMan

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Re: Day 7: The Town Square

Postby DastardlyOldMan » 15 Jan 2017, 19:55:56

I'm probably not going to hang around until EOD, so I imagine this will be a wrap (unless there's no maul and you go another day) - good game, all. The last couple of days have felt like very good play from everyone.

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Re: Day 7: The Town Square

Postby The Fairy Catmother » 15 Jan 2017, 21:01:27

Day 7 has ended.


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