Shred - Night 5

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Shred - Night 5

Postby Ryvvn » 07 Apr 2017, 20:30:34

Lucky Admetus winning the tie breaker.
Unlucky Admetus winning your attention.

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Re: Shred - Night 5

Postby 7-zark-7 » 07 Apr 2017, 22:42:53

Clarification request:
King (x1): If detained, may privately choose any other player to trade roles with; new role will be publicly revealed, and may then use the traded power immediately.

&
The Fairy Catmother wrote:For the record, I just asked Ryvvn for clarification on the King- not sure if you realized this, but if the King is detained and chooses one of us to trade with, since he privately chooses a player to trade with, they could then come right back with "I guess that FCM/Zark is a King" and eject us from the game.
So the King is if particular danger to us.
That's not helpful to point out, because we have no idea who they are. But Ryvvn suggested I share that with you.


I hate to ask, but which role is meant as "new" in the King example?

Read one way, FCM is correct. Is the revealed role that of the adopted one? I.E., if he targets one of us guards, he is revealed as now being a guard? I read this the exact opposite way, that whoever he traded with was announced as King.

Thanks,

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Re: Shred - Night 5

Postby The Fairy Catmother » 07 Apr 2017, 23:28:51

Because it says that he privately trades roles, I read that as that player's new role will be announced, and the other player that is now a king remains unknown to the rest of the group.

Ryvvn, is this correct?

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Re: Shred - Night 5

Postby Ryvvn » 08 Apr 2017, 01:21:11

Sorry, the intended effect of the King privately making his selection is that the player traded with will not be known as having been traded with (until and only if that player is detained post trade); so, that player's former role becomes the King's "new" role, that new role is publicly revealed (since the King is still being detained), and the now former King may use that new role's power.

In FCM's scenario:
King Omega is detained and chooses to swap with Okaros whom was a Guard. Omega is now revealed to be a Guard and may use the Guard's detained ability of guessing another player. As it currently stands, Omega could then select Okaros and guess him as King, since that's technically not revealed anymore; seems a bit unfair, maybe, but I'd view it more as the King either getting luck of the draw (if he didn't know Okaros was originally a guard) or just choosing to guarantee himself one extra day by forgoing swapping for another role (like the Princess) and taking the easy save.

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Re: Shred - Night 5

Postby 7-zark-7 » 08 Apr 2017, 07:50:08

Ryvvn,

I really appreciate how responsive you've been to these questions. We have had a lot of them and you've been patient with that.

The king role risk as you indicate is based upon who he chooses. He could do it as a known quantity or blind. Our risk is if he targets us, but also if he were to target a priest and gain seer power.

I think there is a balance concern that the former king can target a role/player known to him, but... if I had the king role out of the gate I'd want to keep it as written.

More in a bit,

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Re: Shred - Night 5

Postby Ryvvn » 08 Apr 2017, 11:40:45

I was trying to keep the roles as close to their card game versions as made sense, but which would work in a wolf game environment, and which make a thematic sense. As a narrative context game designer, I place more emphasis on the thematic connections than the mechanics or balance (see All or One). So, here, it makes sense that the King would have the authority to take any other's role and choose who his crown is passed on to.

That said, if I were to ever run this style again, there are certainly adjustments I would make to each role now that I've been able to see the game in action.

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Re: Shred - Night 5

Postby The Fairy Catmother » 08 Apr 2017, 11:56:03

I momentarily forgot that we have a couple of players whose roles have been revealed - rekard the Princess, stdio the Prince. If I were a human King, I would certainly consider trading with rekard. It keeps more humans alive one more day, and still maintains a human Alpha in the game.
If the king does get detained and decides to take their chances, chances are higher that they would swap with someone who is not one of us.

Ryvvn, another question: If King Omega swaps with Princess Iron Clad Burrito, is Omega's New role and faction revealed that night?

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Re: Shred - Night 5

Postby The Fairy Catmother » 08 Apr 2017, 12:05:19

At this point, human me would want more info on you, Zark. I'm hoping people don't follow my lead.

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Re: Shred - Night 5

Postby Ryvvn » 08 Apr 2017, 12:10:13

If King swaps with Princess, all Princess powers trigger as soon as I'm able to process the switch happened (since it's a player selected / any time of day power); once processed, by nature of the Princess, all current player votes that are not her would be voided, and I would publicly reveal the new Princess' faction at the same time I revealed her role.

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Re: Shred - Night 5

Postby 7-zark-7 » 08 Apr 2017, 13:31:39

The Fairy Catmother wrote:At this point, human me would want more info on you, Zark. I'm hoping people don't follow my lead.


I understand. I fear we may be the two lead bandwagons though, as my logical reasoning would be to either vote you back or try to persuade you elsewhere by referring to day 1 and saying neither rekard or I are viable converts given we were the lead bandwagons. Alpha wolf must therefore be on one of us, which includes you.

My typical Human response would enter into a flavortext conversation with you, taking quotes out of order, out of context, and basically making an ass of myself.

Unfortunately the logical outcome of that is to vote for you, but I'm changing the subject. I suspect I can pivot elsewhere, but agree it would look odd for you to not vote me. At this point.

Stream of consciousness - sorry, tied up with the kids and work stuff. Hey can we 48 hour is legitimate busy zark.

More in a bit,

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Re: Shred - Night 5

Postby 7-zark-7 » 09 Apr 2017, 11:35:13

Retracted Placeholder... was
#Vote for: stdio > chris > hellheart


Any thoughts?

More in a bit,

7z7
Last edited by 7-zark-7 on 09 Apr 2017, 12:59:26, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Shred - Night 5

Postby 7-zark-7 » 09 Apr 2017, 12:58:32

Changing the order
#Vote for: hellheart > stdio > chris


We may be able to leverage our unconventional maul strategy as a sign of a new player by twisting some of hellhearts last post.

But we can't do that if he's still around.

More in a bit,

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Re: Shred - Night 5

Postby The Fairy Catmother » 09 Apr 2017, 14:06:40

Just came here to say something along those same lines. Also, I fear Hellheart may be right that our last maul choice was a mistake...I hope we can continue to stay off the chopping block.
He's certainly the right choice tonight.

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Re: Shred - Night 5

Postby 7-zark-7 » 09 Apr 2017, 14:11:12

Stdio needs to be next though. Fear of him ejecting Rekard means we are more likely lynch candidates than him.
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Re: Shred - Night 5

Postby The Fairy Catmother » 09 Apr 2017, 14:38:14

Good point.

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Re: Shred - Night 5

Postby 7-zark-7 » 09 Apr 2017, 14:50:08

One justification for hellheart over stdio is we know Stdio's role. Hellheart and Chris may be king or handmaiden.

Hoping we can lynch Chris rather than maul. I don't think we could lynch hellheart unless we can somehow leverage "helpful wolf".

Nervous we don't have more traffic in thread at this point.

Big worry is endgame:

FCM / Zark / Stdio / Rekard ends with one of us detained & no "unknown" roles to guess/guard from. We aren't that far from that point & Im wondering if tonight should be stdio as priority as a result.

Edit. Duh, that's parity. Our concern is earlier.

Thoughts?

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Re: Shred - Night 5

Postby 7-zark-7 » 09 Apr 2017, 15:24:21

When is parity calculated, & do players in detention count?
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Re: Shred - Night 5

Postby Ryvvn » 09 Apr 2017, 15:30:00

7-zark-7 wrote:When is parity calculated, & do players in detention count?

Parity check would be the very last step of night operations.

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Re: Shred - Night 5

Postby 7-zark-7 » 09 Apr 2017, 16:28:05

Pasting current player status and order of ops from rules thread so I'm not paging back & forth:

Royalty:
The Fairy Catmother = wolf guard
Aldax
Jrsthethird
Admetus
RaveBomb
rekard = pretty pretty princess
stdio = prince
7-zark-7 = wolf guard
ChrisWulf
Blindsniper83 = guard - currently in detention
Gungnir888
Hellheart

Ryvvn wrote:Order of Ops:
  • Day/Night close
  • Check for effects which alter a currently detained player being ejected
    • (e.g. guard, baron, prince, king, countess, or princess)
    • Process returning player (if exists)
    • Process ejected player (dead)
  • Check for effects which alter the vote winner moving to detention
    • (e.g. handmaid)
    • Process detained player (not dead yet)
  • Check for effects which alter the viability of the maul
    • (e.g. handmaid, princess, or if target currently detained)
    • Process the mauled player (dead)
  • Day/Night open
    • Reveal the faction (and role if unrevealed) of the ejected
    • Reveal the role card of the currently detained
    • Reveal the faction (only) of the mauled
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Re: Shred - Night 5

Postby 7-zark-7 » 09 Apr 2017, 16:31:11

Chriswolf and hellheart are the only non-revealed roles, therefore the only ones available to us in our capacity as guards, correct?

I have a feeling we need to maul Stdio instead of Hellheart :(
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Re: Shred - Night 5

Postby The Fairy Catmother » 09 Apr 2017, 16:50:43

Whoever we maul, I have a feeling that one of us will be up for the lynch tomorrow. The pool of players is getting too small.
So for that reason, you are probably right.
Maul
#Vote for: stdio > Hellheart > ChrisWulf

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Re: Shred - Night 5

Postby The Fairy Catmother » 09 Apr 2017, 16:56:19

Just realized that blindsniper has not put out a guess using his guard power.
The good thing is, we can't be hit with his power. If his guess is correct, we have one more known role out of the game, and people might be up for lynching him again.
If he guesses incorrectly, we know one more thing to NOT guess if we go up for the lynch.

Either way, the humans will be losing 2 tonight.

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Re: Shred - Night 5

Postby The Fairy Catmother » 09 Apr 2017, 17:58:33

I wonder if aldax chose Hellheart and blindssniper. Blindsniper sounded very sure about Hellheart's role.

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Re: Shred - Night 5

Postby The Fairy Catmother » 09 Apr 2017, 18:00:03

Never mind, that doesn't make sense. Hellheart put the final vote on blind sniper yesterday

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Re: Shred - Night 5

Postby 7-zark-7 » 09 Apr 2017, 18:30:11

Well if hellheart is gone, that brings up order again.

You still good with
#Vote for: Stdio > chriswulf
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Re: Shred - Night 5

Postby 7-zark-7 » 09 Apr 2017, 19:08:55

Stay where you are. If you move off me it's too suspect.
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Re: Shred - Night 5

Postby Ryvvn » 09 Apr 2017, 20:01:15

Night has ended.


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