Shaka, when the walls fell

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Re: Shaka, when the walls fell

Postby Omega » 14 Oct 2013, 21:53:29

He doesn't HAVE to pick that one. He can win with his team.

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Re: Shaka, when the walls fell

Postby Admetus » 14 Oct 2013, 21:55:18

Sure, another way is he could kill at least half of his teammates. Heeeee's a sociopath. ;)

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Re: Shaka, when the walls fell

Postby Omega » 14 Oct 2013, 21:56:57

He can choose to be a Sociopath.

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Re: Shaka, when the walls fell

Postby Ryvvn » 14 Oct 2013, 23:59:08

Hrmm, I probably should have sent out "useless" PMs reasserting my non-aggression pacts right after being resurrected, since Omega failed to inform me that entire day that my powers had been shut off upon my return to play. I could have maybe assuaged Okaros' suspicion on me a little, so that maybe he'd have directed it in the proper direction. They all felt confident it was Blind that resurrected me, so why not just do what I said and attempt to take him out to learn why as opposed to silencing me for a day? Makes no sense and they lost me a second time in the process.

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Re: Shaka, when the walls fell

Postby Omega » 15 Oct 2013, 00:06:26

The discord you created. :)

So the power-ups will be vote modifying powers. Selfishly, I waited to put them in as with fewer people it will be easier to manage.

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Re: Shaka, when the walls fell

Postby Admetus » 15 Oct 2013, 00:11:43

Ryvvn wrote:Hrmm, I probably should have sent out "useless" PMs reasserting my non-aggression pacts right after being resurrected, since Omega failed to inform me that entire day that my powers had been shut off upon my return to play. I could have maybe assuaged Okaros' suspicion on me a little, so that maybe he'd have directed it in the proper direction. They all felt confident it was Blind that resurrected me, so why not just do what I said and attempt to take him out to learn why as opposed to silencing me for a day? Makes no sense and they lost me a second time in the process.

I think having you examined by a seer wasn't a terrible waste. And it's not like anything they did or didn't do would have prevented Blindsniper from deciding to swap you for another corpse, ending your tenure. If you'd succeeded at taking out Blindsniper, that would have been a cool result for your team, to be sure... but you'd still have died with him.

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Re: Shaka, when the walls fell

Postby Ryvvn » 15 Oct 2013, 00:17:22

Admetus wrote:If you'd succeeded at taking out Blindsniper, that would have been a cool result for your team, to be sure... but you'd still have died with him.

Yeah, kinda catching up on what exactly was happening behind the scenes now; didn't realize I was technically a zombie puppet

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Re: Shaka, when the walls fell

Postby Admetus » 15 Oct 2013, 01:52:57

Oh hey. I was looking through the Day 5 thread to see if there was mention of the spies (was that going to be a public thing?) and thought this wording was convenient:

Wasabi, Kor, Klingon - Permanently Removed (Day 4 Lynch)

If you're calling his death a lynch, doesn't his power activate? We never did find out how that was supposed to go. Or did I miss it in the flurry of dead that day?

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Re: Shaka, when the walls fell

Postby Admetus » 15 Oct 2013, 09:53:00

Subject: Night 6

Visigoth wrote:Well we know that FurinMirado is a Klingon and they're down 2 so far.

I wonder what's the source of this mis-count. I'm pretty sure I saw an inaccurate count of Klingons on someone else's board, too, but I might just be imagining it.

Could hurt the Klingons if people haven't noticed they're the worst off right now.

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Re: Shaka, when the walls fell

Postby Admetus » 15 Oct 2013, 10:45:54

Subject: Day 6

Legate Damar wrote:San is not a mole or a spy.

This seems kind of an odd place to make a stand. If they're not forthcoming with some alternate theory, why state it so factually? If Cardassians didn't have something to do with it, they shouldn't be so sure. If they did have something to do with it, then calling the effect "not a mole or spy" is either straight lying or just playing semantics. The other factions won't care to distinguish which.

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Re: Shaka, when the walls fell

Postby Wasabi » 15 Oct 2013, 11:50:59

Admetus wrote:Oh hey. I was looking through the Day 5 thread to see if there was mention of the spies (was that going to be a public thing?) and thought this wording was convenient:

Wasabi, Kor, Klingon - Permanently Removed (Day 4 Lynch)

If you're calling his death a lynch, doesn't his power activate? We never did find out how that was supposed to go. Or did I miss it in the flurry of dead that day?


I was wondering this too, but didn't want to look all sour grapes after dying.

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Re: Shaka, when the walls fell

Postby Omega » 15 Oct 2013, 11:52:08

Wasabi's death wasn't the lynch (that was AVS), Wasabi's death was the prize for beating the beast. It is referred to as "lynch" so as to be easier to keep track of.

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Re: Shaka, when the walls fell

Postby Admetus » 15 Oct 2013, 11:55:25

Subject: Day 6: Tapestry

sphenodont wrote:
FurinMirado wrote:I will say that DOM and sphenodont would be the two I am least interested in saving today.


This is my complete and utter lack of surprise.

Since when has the Plantation-Owning, Champagne-Sipping, Landed Power Elite ever been interested in saving those other than those of your own Priviledged Few? I suppose you would claim that you were "saving" my people when you stole them from their family and forced them to pick your grapes and press your uniform? Even on your spaceship, where are the Brothers and Sisters? Serving their masters drinks in the mess hall and slaving away in your engine room? Convenient to be abandoned when you detach your dainty little saucer and take your ginger strumpet and your pet albino when you cowardly run away.

No, "Sir", I do not need your saving. It is you who will need to be saved when the Day of Reckoning is at hand.

And that Day is nigh upon us, I swear to you.

I think this is the current funniest post of the game. You get my vote for the un-lynch, spheno!

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Re: Shaka, when the walls fell

Postby Admetus » 15 Oct 2013, 13:09:16

Who's been told what, about spies? The only reference to spies at all that I can see is the little bit in the power description of Ozy's Garak.

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Re: Shaka, when the walls fell

Postby Omega » 15 Oct 2013, 13:40:58

Spies know about other spies. They're hunting each other.

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Re: Shaka, when the walls fell

Postby Admetus » 15 Oct 2013, 14:42:55

And I guess "missions" are seer invocations, for spy/not-spy results?

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Re: Shaka, when the walls fell

Postby Admetus » 15 Oct 2013, 14:46:37

Do you think San knows he's been resurrected? He hasn't posted since he was brought back. No Day or Night posts.

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Re: Shaka, when the walls fell

Postby Omega » 15 Oct 2013, 15:23:37

I'll PM him

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Re: Shaka, when the walls fell

Postby Omega » 15 Oct 2013, 15:33:44

Clearasday wrote:fair enough. As to the dissapearing for a day, I got no message about that. Think of the time that you were carried away by an Ent in my First Mayhem game, and couldn't do or say anything for the day. And then subsequently complained to me that the power sucked ass as the whole point of TWG was to encourage participation, not silence. I remember quite a strongly worded PM if memory serves.

Well this is the second time that the role that I implemented (and you complained about) and one that I have since learned is a dumb one, has been used on me in a game. So I was just as frustrated as you were. Especially since we lost our maul. Anyway, nothing that I know of happened to me. I'm still a Klingon whatever that may be.


Ouch. Sorry future CAD, that role didn't really work out as well as I'd hoped.

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Re: Shaka, when the walls fell

Postby Omega » 15 Oct 2013, 17:35:45

Macha Hernandez btw was the original name for the Tasha Yar character in TNG. Originally, Marina Sirtis was going to play her and Denise Crosby would play Troi, but they swapped, leading to the name change.

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Re: Shaka, when the walls fell

Postby Admetus » 15 Oct 2013, 17:38:02

Maul: rekard > Visigoth (fails)

Who had the maul? Sociopaths? There wasn't a note in a private forum.

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Re: Shaka, when the walls fell

Postby Omega » 15 Oct 2013, 17:39:20

Yes, Hellheart had it.

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Re: Shaka, when the walls fell

Postby Omega » 15 Oct 2013, 17:53:26

Shit it is going to go DOWN on Cardassia.

I still maintain Ozy wasn't a true mole. He had a personal agenda certainly, but he was NOT leaking information to another faction.

In fact, no player has knowingly leaked information to another faction.

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Re: Shaka, when the walls fell

Postby Admetus » 15 Oct 2013, 17:54:32

I'm curious what your thoughts are now, on the Garak vs Macet drama, Omega.

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Re: Shaka, when the walls fell

Postby Iron Clad Burrito » 15 Oct 2013, 17:56:09

Omega wrote:Shit it is going to go DOWN on Cardassia.

I still maintain Ozy wasn't a true mole. He had a personal agenda certainly, but he was NOT leaking information to another faction.

In fact, no player has knowingly leaked information to another faction.


I wonder how prudent it was for Ozy to mention the Council spy discussion in the day thread.

For that matter, rekard's post bewildered me -- mostly because I started from the faction boards and read upward to the day thread -- but also, why not just quietly PM you instead of confronting Ozy?

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Re: Shaka, when the walls fell

Postby Omega » 15 Oct 2013, 17:57:37

Admetus wrote:I'm curious what your thoughts are now, on the Garak vs Macet drama, Omega.


I couldn't have foreseen that the Cardassians were going to be the most powerful faction at the moment. But that drama could bring down the whole thing.

I think the subplots are great. This isn't a standard TWG with everyone having a common enemy. I wanted insane ludicrous shit. :D

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Re: Shaka, when the walls fell

Postby Admetus » 15 Oct 2013, 17:58:28

Iron Clad Burrito wrote:I wonder how prudent it was for Ozy to mention the Council spy discussion in the day thread.

For that matter, rekard's post bewildered me -- mostly because I started from the faction boards and read upward to the day thread -- but also, why not just quietly PM you instead of confronting Ozy?

I think Rekard was assuming Garak was in another faction, but he thought Ozy was his team's spy. Just guessing.

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Re: Shaka, when the walls fell

Postby Iron Clad Burrito » 15 Oct 2013, 17:59:40

For that matter, the Klingons -- 2 people are in an elevator, one person farts, everyone knows who did it.

I wonder what Furin's thinking right now.

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Re: Shaka, when the walls fell

Postby Admetus » 15 Oct 2013, 18:00:47

Federation is in the same boat. Er, elevator.

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Re: Shaka, when the walls fell

Postby Admetus » 15 Oct 2013, 18:02:17

Also it looks like CAD's about to confess, so we'll see a similar thing going on there. I expect the small teams to be (internally) unified, honestly. They're facing extinction.

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Re: Shaka, when the walls fell

Postby Omega » 15 Oct 2013, 18:02:49

Admetus wrote:
Iron Clad Burrito wrote:I wonder how prudent it was for Ozy to mention the Council spy discussion in the day thread.

For that matter, rekard's post bewildered me -- mostly because I started from the faction boards and read upward to the day thread -- but also, why not just quietly PM you instead of confronting Ozy?

I think Rekard was assuming Garak was in another faction, but he thought Ozy was his team's spy. Just guessing.


rekard and I had the following conversation

Omega wrote:You are Gul Macet. It is known that Bajor was a fiasco, no doubt about that, but, what is always forgotten is that you weren’t there until the end. This is all really Dukat’s fault. Well, Dukat and Garak. Unfortunately, while Dukat is off wherever he is, you’re here. And you were just about to catch that vole loving bastard.

You will receive a personal victory (and power up) if you discern who Garak is before he otherwise dies. In order to do this, you must PM the GM. You may only do this three times per game and may not do it on consecutive days.

You are the ranking officer here and as such, you receive an immunity from night kills, if however, you are the target of multiple night kill attempts on the same night, another member of your team will die.

This does not protect you from Garak.


rekard wrote:I am not overly familiar with the setting but Garak is from another team despite him being a Cardassian?


rekard wrote:Except for Garak, I am immune to all night kills tight? Even team night kill.

And Garak, from Wikipedia, seems to be a traitor Cardassian, so he would not be in my team right?


Omega wrote:If you and Garak meet in a back alley, your immunity would not save you, though it may not be an 100% chance of death. It does protect against the maul.

Garak may have certain means at his disposal to access your board.

[OOC: I would argue that he is not a traitor, but he was indeed exiled.]


rekard wrote:
Omega wrote: If you and Garak meet in a back alley, your immunity would not save you, though it may not be an 100% chance of death. It does protect against the maul.

Garak may have certain means at his disposal to access your board.

[OOC: I would argue that he is not a traitor, but he was indeed exiled.]




Well, I skimmed the Wiki entry. Now I guess the Dukat account would be able to access my team's board right? Seems like an obvious question but would like to clarify.

And access my board? Hmm. Methinks Garak could be a psychopath of this game.

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Re: Shaka, when the walls fell

Postby Omega » 15 Oct 2013, 18:03:17

I specifically never answered whether or not Garak was on his team.

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Re: Shaka, when the walls fell

Postby Omega » 15 Oct 2013, 18:14:01

I don't understand why Ozy didn't just double down.

Claim "spy hunter" or some such.

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Re: Shaka, when the walls fell

Postby Admetus » 15 Oct 2013, 18:19:28

I dunno, it looks like they're going to hug it out. If Rekard hasn't PM'd you yet, I don't think he's going to. It seems like he's very averse to the idea that he might die and therefore lose. I suppose that means he's sticking with the general Cardassian win.

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Re: Shaka, when the walls fell

Postby Omega » 15 Oct 2013, 19:28:01

I'm thinking about sending the spies a pm through the "computer" account indicating that their objective p has changed.

"New Objective: Kill everyone else. All other priorities are rescinded for the duration of this mission."

Too much?

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Re: Shaka, when the walls fell

Postby Admetus » 15 Oct 2013, 19:34:44

Well, what's their current mission? Outlast all other spies? I'm not sure I have an opinion about such a dramatic change. You'd basically be setting up a new faction, and there are PM powers to help coordinate it. Right now, Mortus knows that he'll be found out at the latest by tonight, but his team doesn't have any reason to kill him. As long as he helps with Cardassian domination, they don't care if he eliminates the other spies.

Basically I'm just taking it as a case study in side objectives for future wolf game design. ;) Fortunately my upcoming game has no hidden factions or personal wins. ;)

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Re: Shaka, when the walls fell

Postby Omega » 15 Oct 2013, 19:37:56

Every GM says that!

I saw your PM, I'll get back to you tonight.

I just don't like this ambivalence towards the Intelligence Agencies.

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Re: Shaka, when the walls fell

Postby Admetus » 15 Oct 2013, 19:41:52

Yeah I'm not sure what to do. I feel like this is beyond my experience, so I don't want to advise you wrongly.

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Re: Shaka, when the walls fell

Postby Omega » 15 Oct 2013, 21:12:20

We've danced around the idea of "Dueling GMs" in the past, most notably in the Ozy/Ionitor game.

I wonder how that would actually work... Two teams of players with a GM each and a pool of powers to distribute? Almost like battleship?

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Re: Shaka, when the walls fell

Postby Admetus » 15 Oct 2013, 21:22:32

Admetus wrote:Right now, Mortus knows that he'll be found out at the latest by tonight, but his team doesn't have any reason to kill him. As long as he helps with Cardassian domination, they don't care if he eliminates the other spies.

So, pondering on this a little further, Mortus is in no danger whatsoever from his team. Ozy gets all the spy reports. Mortus has two vigilante kills that work on spies in other factions. He will be the most well-informed spy of them all, and the Cardassians will shoot very accurately. If you thought the Cardassians were powerful before, just wait a day or two. This game could wrap up very quickly.

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Re: Shaka, when the walls fell

Postby Omega » 15 Oct 2013, 21:27:44

Hrmm... the rekard/ozy was not foreseen.

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Re: Shaka, when the walls fell

Postby Admetus » 15 Oct 2013, 22:39:12

Omega wrote:We've danced around the idea of "Dueling GMs" in the past, most notably in the Ozy/Ionitor game.

I wonder how that would actually work... Two teams of players with a GM each and a pool of powers to distribute? Almost like battleship?

It would probably work like the Taco Option, with RaveBomb and Sphenodont. :)

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Re: Shaka, when the walls fell

Postby Omega » 15 Oct 2013, 22:55:00

Yeah, that had the added bonus of being meta as shit. Which was awesome.

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Re: Shaka, when the walls fell

Postby Omega » 16 Oct 2013, 09:43:26

I hope that the Klingons don't kill Hellheart tonight. They need as many destabilizing factors as possible to keep the Cardies off balance

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Re: Shaka, when the walls fell

Postby Admetus » 16 Oct 2013, 10:38:40

Subject: Night 7

Ozymandias wrote:
rekard wrote:We need to play this right. If our spy is able to kill 2 spies and Hellheart gets lynched tomorrow, we should be able to win, without hopefully any night death.

Yes-- Mortus, if you're really the Spy, please kill dferrantino tonight.

That will give us the Federation team power tomorrow.

Yep, this is what I was talking about. This game is juuust about over now, barring any major twists. ;)

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Re: Shaka, when the walls fell

Postby Admetus » 16 Oct 2013, 11:11:15

Subject: Night 7

Ozymandias wrote:
rekard wrote:Omega just said tomorrow's lynch. I don't think that's convenient for either team. We should attempt #2 and get Hellheart lynched there? We can argue that we don't want Hellheart to know we know.

Honestly, I think it's very unfair that the Sociopath can be lynched in a private forum that he cannot vote in.

In fact, I suggest that the GM remove Option 2 from consideration.

Not sure why this is unfair? Private forums have killed several people. Is the maul unfair?

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Re: Shaka, when the walls fell

Postby Omega » 16 Oct 2013, 11:46:05

I was thinking about making it a Council & Day votes have to agree on the lynch, but then I figured they'd never get there.

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Re: Shaka, when the walls fell

Postby Omega » 16 Oct 2013, 11:53:07

I think the Klingon's forgotten maul is going to hurt them the most. CAD really could use an extra kill at the moment.

I'm not sure why no one has tried to maul Ozy!

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Re: Shaka, when the walls fell

Postby Admetus » 16 Oct 2013, 12:27:45

Subject: Night 7

Okaros wrote:
[+] speculation bomb, spoilered
DastardlyOldMan wrote:Hmmm.... are the Cardassians naming dfer a spy, or is that the Federation delegate? If I were the spy, I'd be quick to name the other-guy as the spy.

Regarding point (2) - did you not get a copy of AVS' seering? If not, I'd suggest that he may not have seered him at all? Dunno how your power works, seems like you're not getting the full details on ~every seering. You just get one seering per night?



The Cardassians named dferr a spy, not the Federation delegate.

I did not get a copy of AVS' seering of CAD. However, we know CAD was seered because he left play the day after Augie claimed to have submitted the seering. This is consistent with all of Augie's other seer targets: The victim leaves play for a day and we get the results back when they return. Augie waited until after I provided my results for the day, ensuring that I did *not* get a copy of the results from CAD before revealing the results.

My power appears to giving me a single randomly-selected seer result each night. I had hoped at first it might be every result, but that would be a little overpowered (it's already been very useful so far).


So, speculation/supposition time:

On the Federation Spy:
1) We know Ozy was seered by Augie on Night 1. I saw the results of that the same time Augie did, on Day 3. Those results were false. Augie selected Ozy without any input form us and without telling us. If Augie knew Ozy was a spy and knew he had a disguise power, targeting him right off the bat makes a great cover story. Ozy's a high-profile seer target so it makes sense to seer him on Night 1, and the fake results would conceal his identity as a spy.

On the Cardassian Spy:
2) On Day 3 Augie agreed to interrogate Visi. On Day 5, we discovered that it was Blindsniper that was interrogated instead. Augie ignored my requests for clarification on why Blindsniper was targeted. This tells me that Augie didn't want to interrogate Visigoth for some reason. Why? The only reason that makes sense is that Visi is a spy and that fact was known to Augie. Thus the lie by the Legate makes sense: It's Visi trying to cover his own ass (and, by extension, Ozy's ass since the Cardassians have named dferr as a spy, presumably based on a lie from Visi).

On the Klingon Spy:
3) CAD is likely the Klingon spy. As mentioned above, Augie's behavior is very suspicious with regards to revealing CAD's results. The timing is different than normal (how could Omega process my results without first processing Augie's?) and a second "oops, wrong target" would not have gone unnoticed and would have been insanely suspicious. The reason to do this would be to, again, prevent the reveal of a fellow spy by omitting that portion of the report.

Finally, a key lynchpin on the Cardassian front:
The Legate declared Hellheart a non-spy *yesterday*. Last night someone seered Hellheart, and suddenly the Legate declares Hellheart to be a sociopath. How did the Legate know Hellheart wasn't a spy? And why did the Cardassian seer go after Hellheart rather than confirming/denying, say, the Furin/CAD question or investigating one of their own to find the spy there?
Answer: The Legate = Cardassian spy = Visigoth = Seer. Rather than waste his time hunting for spies, he went for confirmation that Hellheart was a sociopath.

So, I think this is what I must look like, often. Okaros is working from flawed premises, and his conclusions are getting further and further off target.

Future Okaros: They're not always out to get you. Sometimes the coincidence is a coincidence.

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Re: Shaka, when the walls fell

Postby Admetus » 16 Oct 2013, 12:31:39

I had assumed the council vote would be lots of Option 2: Council Lynch, because it levels the playing fields between factions. It's 4-2-2-2, so you'd figure most would want that. But I guess if they think Hellheart is the natural target for tomorrow, and there's no reason to expect difficulty getting him lynched, then maybe they want to avoid giving out a power in the day thread lynch.


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