Day 7 - That's the Power of Love

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Day 7 - That's the Power of Love

Postby Clearasday » 21 Nov 2013, 18:17:59

The contestants were shaking and scared. Yesterday night their Host had been murdered. True, he had brought chaos and death amongst them daily, but at least his was a chaos and a death behind a happy face. A Chaos and a death that could be relied upon. Their new Host was not taking any chances. He had not appeared yet all day, instead relaying instructions and countdowns to them through a loudspeaker. What if he was worse than the last one? Some dared to hope that he might be better, and would actually understand the mystic bonds of love that the contestants held onto so preciously.

And then the doors opened. Everyone leapt backwards towards the furthest edge of the stage as the new Host entered, surrounded by a troop of nervous intern-bodyguards. He seemed exactly the same. Did they manufacture these guys somewhere?


"Hello children, its time to select your team leader of the day! And who have you selected little ones?"
Meta4 and Griffypoo were shouldered forwards and quickly surrounded by the 4 in-no-way-menacing bodyguards.
"What's this. You need your Host to help you decide? Ah, children are so indecisive aren't they? One day you're all falling head over heels in puppy love with each other and calling it 'the real thing' and the next day YOU'RE MURDERING MY BROTHER YOU LITTL- *ahem* Yes I do think this one shall have to go. He looks like he's actually got some spirit left in him."
"Uh sir Griffypoo is one of the most popular characters right now. Killing him off might well cause the ratings to take a dive. Might I suggest we give him some time to find out that he's actually not a wrestler, and then lynch him amidst a tragic heartbreak story?"
"Do I look like an intern to you? No, and why not? Because I'm the goddamn Host. I give the orders, I pick the picks, I make the chooses. Get out of my sight whelp. Griffypoo shall die, I have spoken. Let us commence with... Anvil Thursday!"

The lynch-victim's eyes go wide. His eyes flash a look upwards and then he quickly attempts to get away but is pulled back into place. With Griffy tied and gagged, everyone slowly begins to back away. Everyone except for Mortus, who doesn't quite realise what's going on. For while all of this was going on, he was in fact concocting a sonnet for his one true love from the stage-left. As Mortus approaches Griffypoo, he begins to read from his sheet, totally oblivious to the dire glances and gestures being thrown his way by his doomed lover.

"Griffy, to what can I compare thee? Shall I compare you to a Shark that I found one Saturday evening in July when I swam through Zanzibar? Neigh I say, a shark would not befit you, for what can befit you that is not at once both glorious and a tiger in bed. You and I griffy, when we're together we...
What's with the ropes Griffy?"
Mortus sits down beside his tied and gagged lover, who rolls his eyes and then begins to desperately kick out.
"Why do you push me away? Why are you tied? Oh ho ho. I think I know what you have in mind. Just let me finish reading the poem and then we'll-"

SPLAT

But we at home shall happily never hear what it was that Mortus was about to say or do to Griffy, for at that moment the falling Anvil at last hit the two of them, squashing them flat.

The Host turned to leave, but found himself suddenly face-to-face with two huge and livid forms. Ravebomb and Iron Clad Burrito had been waiting to ambush the Host when the Anvil fell to mask the sounds of their attack. But just as the anvil had struck Griffypoo and Mortus, so too had some hidden figure struck out at them. Suddenly finding themselves impaled together on what looked to be a large microphone stand, the two were powerless to enact their pre-meditated Vengeance upon the new Host. He danced just out of reach of them and began to taunt the lovers.

"Haha, you villains are dead too. How excellent. See how all Lovers get their just deserts? A promotion for the man that killed them, that was some spectacular TV. Prove you can do it once more and we might even have you running this show. Whoever you are. Haha. The viewers do love a mystery. Anything to say now you two?"

"Woof" said Ravebomb, and transformed into a gigantic Werewolf, shredding the New Host into several hundred pieces with his now longer armspan. But try as he might the lovers could not remove the microphone trapping and impaling them both. As the rest of the contestants ran away, Iron Clad Burrito began to grab the interns one by one and beat them into the floor with his bare fists. "Which one of you did this to Rave? I'LL KILL YOU". Rave flipped a table. Iron Clad Burrito flipped Ravebomb. But everyone else had already fled out of their reach. At last, their vengeance spent but not achieved, the two Lovers fell dead to the stage.



Griffypoo was lynched. He was a Lover.
Mortus has died of a broken heart. He was a Lover.
Wolves are amongst the finest poets in the animal kingdom, and thus the state of their poetry proves beyond a doubt that they were both Human aligned.

Ravebomb and Iron Clad Burrito have been murdered. They were both Vengeful Lovers. Whilst Iron Clad Burrito may have walked walked in the light of the full moon as a Human, Ravebomb almost certainly would have pranced about as a Werewolf.
THERE IS NO JUSTICE, THERE IS JUST CLEARASDAY.

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Re: Day 7 - That's the Power of Love

Postby Clearasday » 21 Nov 2013, 18:18:14

Vote Totals

Meta4 - 5 - Admetus, Hellheart, Stigmata, MEM, Griffypoo
Griffypoo - 5 - Furin, Meta4, Zark, Wasabi, Sphenodont
Furin - 4 - ICB, Blindsniper, Ryvvn, Ravebomb
Hellheart -1 - Mortus


[+] Vote History
Ryvvn votes for Hellheart
Admetus votes for Meta4
ICB votes for Furin
Furin votes for Ryvvn
Blindsniper votes for Furin
MEM votes for Admetus
Ryvvn votes for Furin
Meta4 votes for Admetus
Hellheart votes for Meta4
Furin votes for Griffypoo
Rave votes for Admetus
Rave votes for Hellheart
Meta4 votes for Hellheart

Stigmata votes for Meta4
Mortus votes for Hellheart
MEM votes for Meta4
Meta4 votes for Griffypoo
Zark votes for Griffypoo
Wasabi votes for Griffypoo
Sphenodont votes for Griffypoo
Griffypoo votes for Meta4
Rave votes for Furin
THERE IS NO JUSTICE, THERE IS JUST CLEARASDAY.

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Re: Day 7 - That's the Power of Love

Postby Ryvvn » 21 Nov 2013, 18:27:35

Well, at least I was right not to trust Rave....

So, the Scorned randomly landed on Rave and ICB instead of taking Hellheart and spheno?

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Re: Day 7 - That's the Power of Love

Postby Wasabi » 21 Nov 2013, 18:30:58

Wow, now that's a surprise - the Vengeful lovers loved one another? And since neither survived, they don't get to be vengeful and take anyone down?

The Scorned lover hitting Rave and ICB is a surprise, too. They must have tipped their hands somehow in the PM game.

Interesting note: Ravebomb was the other party in my incomplete PM conversation which got me looking at Hellheart's statistics. Ravebomb was pushing the idea that there were more scenarios in which a Hellheart lynch would also nail a wolf. Of course, the important factor was how likely those scenarios might occur, hence my post about it.

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Re: Day 7 - That's the Power of Love

Postby Hellheart » 21 Nov 2013, 18:36:32

OH YEAH that's right the Macho Man just spent the whooooole day stalking around the arena screaming in everybody's face with Elizabeth on his arm for EVERYBODY IN THE WORLD TO SEE yeah but the Scorned Lover took one look at Elizabeth and he knew that he could never hurt that delicate creature's heart even for a moment yeah so instead he simultaneously pierced both Vengeful Lovers' hearts at once yeah the Ultimate Warrior would have been proud BUT INSTEAD HE'S DEAD RIGHT NOW and I told you he was human didn't I Elizabeth more than once I think that's right and if you had listened to me and lynched Wyvvern instead of taking the coward's way out and voting for the inactive guy there would be TWO dead wolves and TWO living wrestlers RIGHT HERE AND NOW YEAH
Last edited by Hellheart on 21 Nov 2013, 18:37:10, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Day 7 - That's the Power of Love

Postby Ryvvn » 21 Nov 2013, 18:36:58

I don't know if this will help, but in the PMs Rave sent me these are the names and reads he mentioned:
  • sphenodont (a liar)
  • rekard (suspected wolf he was "warned" off of, then likely a wolf after Okaros revealed)
  • MEM (likely not a wolf)
  • Okaros (likely not a wolf)
Last edited by Ryvvn on 21 Nov 2013, 18:37:36, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Day 7 - That's the Power of Love

Postby 7-zark-7 » 21 Nov 2013, 18:37:33

So... that explains a lot. Here's my initial communication from the Burrito:

Iron Clad Burrito wrote:I don't fully know yet that you're human, but since the wolves don't have a maul I don't mind talking to you about this. But I'd like to win the game for us, and I kinda need to find things out.

I propose that we swap a little info, just to see where it leads us. As a show of good faith, I'll start.

I was contacted by someone who claims to be linked to the wolves, and is playing the "Be the last two people alive" game. However, in order for them to do that, they have to betray me. So, frankly, I need to betray them first, but I need someone else to do it.

Rekard needs to go.

Now... What's going through YOUR head is "But ICB, why don't you do it?" -- well... let's call it a trust-building and info-gathering exercise. If you can out rekard without betraying me, I can be reasonably assured of your humanity. And if you betray me, I know that you're linked to the wolves and can do something about that. And if I just failed to give you a wolf? You can then out me as the guy who duped you.

So there's my part. I'd appreciate it if we could keep the comm lines open. :)


Curious how much infighting we've got in the wolfhouse. If ICB & his wolf-lover were looking to off Rekard at the very start of the game.

More in a bit,

7z7
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"The possibility that it's Zark simply murdering someone at a whim each day... would be delightful if true, but I worry that that's too simple a solution." - Okaros

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Re: Day 7 - That's the Power of Love

Postby Ryvvn » 21 Nov 2013, 18:41:34

Hellheart wrote:if you had listened to me and lynched Wyvvern instead of taking the coward's way out and voting for the inactive guy there would be TWO dead wolves and TWO living wrestlers RIGHT HERE AND NOW YEAH

Give it a rest before you're the one who gets another human killed; your initial suspicion of me was due to my "odd" PM, which I already revealed was from Rave and that I had hoped to discuss my distrust of them with you in private... you know right before you first began to crusade against me. Your read is wrong, Hellheart.

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Re: Day 7 - That's the Power of Love

Postby Hellheart » 21 Nov 2013, 18:48:30

Ryvvn wrote:
Hellheart wrote:if you had listened to me and lynched Wyvvern instead of taking the coward's way out and voting for the inactive guy there would be TWO dead wolves and TWO living wrestlers RIGHT HERE AND NOW YEAH

Give it a rest before you're the one who gets another human killed; your initial suspicion of me was due to my "odd" PM, which I already revealed was from Rave and that I had hoped to discuss my distrust of them with you in private... you know right before you first began to crusade against me. Your read is wrong, Hellheart.

(( Oh come on, I can't spend another entire day accusing you of being a wolf and taunting you because I'm still alive? ))

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Re: Day 7 - That's the Power of Love

Postby Ryvvn » 21 Nov 2013, 18:54:15

Also, here are the names that spheno mentioned in our PM exchanges:
  • ICB (possibly wolf)
  • rekard (possibly wolf)
  • Hellheart (slightly possible wolf, spheno wasn't sure because he agreed HH has been playing terribly)
  • I mention my distrust of HH, Griffy, and rekard, I also mention how I realized it was a mistake for me to have ever PM'd HH
  • spheno suggests there a few wolves on rekard's killing wagon and that we start looking at quiet players
  • he then suggest Blind and Omega
  • he also mentions having earlier suspicions of me but that his suspicions were gone
  • he mentioned maybe being too trusting of HH (though never reveals being HH's lover, obviously)
  • Rave's wolf-lover claim (from PMs) is brought up
  • then he also mentions ICB's warnings about rekard from Day 1 and he suspects the two are "working an angle"

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Re: Day 7 - That's the Power of Love

Postby Ryvvn » 21 Nov 2013, 19:00:45

Who else had been in communication with Rave and ICB to not only figure out they were lovers, but vengeful as well...? Having both pieces of information is the only way I can see the Scorned taking them out before the obvious choice of Hellheart and spheno, which is otherwise unbelievably suspicious.

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Re: Day 7 - That's the Power of Love

Postby Ryvvn » 21 Nov 2013, 19:07:00

Also, if Hellheart and spheno are already exposed lovers, why would they not have stacked their votes on one mutually agreed upon person? Especially if HH thought voting for Griffy was the wrong choice (obviously he didn't vote for Griffy, but why wouldn't his lover follow suit)?

I understand there is the risk of potentially losing three humans, but is there anyone who can tell me that we don't glean the most information by just lynching HH at this point? I'm seriously asking here.

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Re: Day 7 - That's the Power of Love

Postby Ryvvn » 21 Nov 2013, 19:33:45

Also, also, Hellheart, if you're positive that spheno is human, there's no longer the threat of the double Scorned kill on your lovers, so you could safely reveal your other lover now...

If we don't lynch HH, here's what else I see:
(NONE OF THESE ARE VOTES)
Seeking Patterns wrote:
  • Day 1
    • Rave, Ryvvn, spheno, and zark vote against MEM
    • Hellheart votes with 5 others to lynch Visigoth
      • DOM, Omega, Mortus, Griffy, and Admetus
  • Day 2
    • Rave votes solo on Rictus
    • Ryvvn vote solo on Hellheart
    • spheno, zark, and Hellheart vote with 3 others on Okaros
      • rekard, DOM, and Wasabi
  • Day 3
    • spheno votes solo on Ryvvn
    • zark votes with 4 others on ICB
      • Rictus, Omega, MEM, and Wasabi
    • Rave, Ryvvn, and Hellheart vote with 5 others to lynch Okaros
      • twdog, Mortus, Meta4, dferr, and stigmata
  • Day 4
    • Ryvvn votes with 2 others against Hellheart
      • Rictus and stigmata
    • Hellheart votes with one 1 other against Ryvvn
      • Furin
    • Rave, zark, and spheno, along with 5 others, vote to lynch rekard
      • ICB, Omega, MEM, dferr, and Blind
  • Day 5
    • Rave votes solo against zark
    • Ryvvn votes with 2 others against Hellheart
      • ICB and stigmata
    • spheno, zark, and Hellheart vote with 2 others to lynch Omega
      • Admetus and Furin
  • Day 6
    • Rave and Ryvvn vote with 2 others against Furin
      • ICB and Blind
    • Hellheart votes with 4 others against Meta4
      • Griffy, Admetus, stigmata, and MEM
    • zark and spheno vote with 3 others against Griffy
      • Furin, Meta4, and Wasabi


There's the uncanny fact that spheno and zark voted together on 5 out of 6 days (2 with Wolf Rave, 2 with Hellheart, 1 just them, 1 separated); I need to keep looking through my own tracking to see if anyone else shows this type of frequency....
Last edited by Ryvvn on 21 Nov 2013, 20:29:31, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Day 7 - That's the Power of Love

Postby stigmata » 21 Nov 2013, 20:26:53

Holy wall of analysis, Ryvvn. :flail:

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Re: Day 7 - That's the Power of Love

Postby Ryvvn » 21 Nov 2013, 20:30:26

stigmata wrote:Holy wall of analysis, Ryvvn. :flail:

cleaned it up as best I could, also moving my vote that was there down to this post

"I think you can all see the other name that seems to keep popping up here... placeholder vote on 7-zark-7 (RETRACTED)"
Last edited by Ryvvn on 22 Nov 2013, 11:46:22, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Day 7 - That's the Power of Love

Postby Ryvvn » 21 Nov 2013, 20:40:24

I hope at this point I've settled Hellheart's requirement of "find a better wolf candidate than yourself" and now I'd ask him to kindly reveal the name of his other lover, who I now think may actually be zark and, if so, that Hellheart was clearly lying about his lovers' knowledge of each other; I'd also like Hellheart to offer a rebuttal as to why lynching him would not give the Humans the most information at this point.

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Re: Day 7 - That's the Power of Love

Postby Hellheart » 21 Nov 2013, 20:57:36

Ryvvn wrote:I hope at this point I've settled Hellheart's requirement of "find a better wolf candidate than yourself" and now I'd ask him to kindly reveal the name of his other lover, who I now think may actually be zark and, if so, that Hellheart was clearly lying about his lovers' knowledge of each other; I'd also like Hellheart to offer a rebuttal as to why lynching him would not give the Humans the most information at this point.

I need to sleep. It's been about 36 hours awake at this point. I'll be around at 3 PM ET or so after a long night's sleep and running a few errands.

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Re: Day 7 - That's the Power of Love

Postby Ryvvn » 21 Nov 2013, 22:42:14

Looking further over my own tracking has uncovered two other interesting patterns of a sort; however, I'll hold them for now as I do not want to pile on or distract from the vote analysis of zark (and his spheno pairing) and the questions I asked Hellheart.

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Re: Day 7 - That's the Power of Love

Postby Admetus » 21 Nov 2013, 23:30:04

I honestly don't see how Zark is a wolf given what we know about ICB, Rave, and rekard.

ICB creates a message about a wolf tip, claiming it's from a third party. He wants Zark to kill rekard. RaveBomb, his wolf lover, is the overwhelmingly likely source. It fits because A) if rekard is not a wolf, ICB knows RaveBomb is a lying wolf and he just tells the thread to lynch ICB to get rid of the wolf at a great trade. B) If ICB is betrayed by Zark, he has a Vengeful retaliation he can use on Zark on his way out. C) If rekard is revealed as a wolf, ICB has great human cred and can choose whichever victory condition he wants, as he knows his wolf-lover is on the level.

Now. If Zark is also a wolf, and ICB was that unlucky, the plot is immediately shared with rekard using the wolf forum. The ensuing wolf infighting would have been immediate, possibly even including the lynching of RaveBomb. Was RaveBomb ever in danger? No. This could have been turned around to buy the other wolves cred.

Instead we have a slow and stumbling reveal where first Zark shops the information around in PMs to a few people, and tries to figure out what angle is being played. Eventually he even reveals it to the main thread, but there is not an accompanying wolf surge on ICB, or well... almost any reaction at all. When rekard eventually goes down, he's pretty clearly pissed. This isn't a guy who's had a few days to get ready to die, and maybe do something to help his wolf team. This is a guy who didn't expect to be sold out by a wolf.

No, Zark doesn't fit as a wolf in this scenario.

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Re: Day 7 - That's the Power of Love

Postby Mister E. Meat » 22 Nov 2013, 04:28:24

I agree that it seems unlikely that 7z7 is a wolf. Perhaps he is the scorned lover? That would at least fit the narrative.

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Re: Day 7 - That's the Power of Love

Postby FurinMirado » 22 Nov 2013, 05:43:00

Well that explains why ICB turned on me when I had Ravebomb listed as one of the wolves. I was dead wrong about Griffypoo though. I think what's throwing me is the wolf/human pairings. I'm getting human reads on humans but they're paired with a wolf so they might as well be a wolf.

Ryvvn I think your vote analysis would be more useful if ICB and twdog were not colored green on the chart. We need to differentiate humans with human lovers from humans with wolf lovers.

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Re: Day 7 - That's the Power of Love

Postby Ryvvn » 22 Nov 2013, 07:27:32

Admetus wrote:I honestly don't see how Zark is a wolf given what we know about ICB, Rave, and rekard.

ICB creates a message about a wolf tip, claiming it's from a third party. He wants Zark to kill rekard. RaveBomb, his wolf lover, is the overwhelmingly likely source. It fits because...[snipped]

No, Zark doesn't fit as a wolf in this scenario.

Can you recall where the name reveals happened amid the day threads? I don't have time to crawl back through them to verify all this, and I'm not putting any stock into the PM games that were happening. I'm just looking for cold, hard patterns now, and the one that stood out to me was how often zark showed up paired with spheno and voting against Humans, except for Day 1 randomness and Day 4 take cover in rekard wagon.

I should also mention I'm taking everything you say, Admetus, with a giant grain of salt because:
Admetus' Pattern wrote:
  • You voted Human Visigoth Day 1
    • If Hellheart is a Human Bigamist, you're the only wolf candidate on that wagon
  • You voted Human DOM Day 2
    • Based on point one, you could have been the wolf on the alternate DOM wagon
  • You voted suspected Zark Day 3
    • If Zark turns out to be a wolf, you took a throwaway cover vote there
  • You voted Human ICB Day 4
    • The flurry of votes on ICB all came within the last ~35 mins of the Day, and you could be taking cred cover behind Wolf rekard
  • You voted Human Omega Day 5
    • This wagon happens to include the whole zark, spheno, Hellheart triangle I'm questioning
  • You voted unknown Meta4 on Day 6
    • Not enough info to theorize why, but...
  • Aside from your throwaway (possibly cover) vote on Zark on Day 3, you've been in the top two wagons all other days, half of which have killed Humans.

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Re: Day 7 - That's the Power of Love

Postby Ryvvn » 22 Nov 2013, 07:39:28

FurinMirado wrote:Ryvvn I think your vote analysis would be more useful if ICB and twdog were not colored green on the chart. We need to differentiate humans with human lovers from humans with wolf lovers.

I disagree, muddying the chart with additional colors will only dilute the patterns by assuming lovers might know of each other's alignment and be working toward a star-crossed victory. I myself have informed my lover I don't care what his alignment is, because as far as I'm concerned I need him alive regardless in order for me to be of as much use to my Human teammates for as long as possible; the only time I care whether my teammate is a wolf is when we are down to one remaining wolf, because then I can decide to either work for a lovers' victory or allow my team to win by sacrificing myself.

I understand the reasoning, that ICB knew (or suspected or whatever) that he had a wolf lover, but then we're also introducing the whole chaotic element of the PM dance to the solidity of information here, and as I said to Admetus, I'm not putting any stock into those.

But, for those who would like to see it, here's the same colored chart with Humans who had Wolf lovers colored in (pink):
[+] altered chart
Seeking Patterns wrote:
  • Day 1
    • Rave, Ryvvn, spheno, and zark vote against MEM
    • Hellheart votes with 5 others to lynch Visigoth
      • DOM, Omega, Mortus, Griffy, and Admetus
  • Day 2
    • Rave votes solo on Rictus
    • Ryvvn vote solo on Hellheart
    • spheno, zark, and Hellheart vote with 3 others on Okaros
      • rekard, DOM, and Wasabi
  • Day 3
    • spheno votes solo on Ryvvn
    • zark votes with 4 others on ICB
      • Rictus, Omega, MEM, and Wasabi
    • Rave, Ryvvn, and Hellheart vote with 5 others to lynch Okaros
      • twdog, Mortus, Meta4, dferr, and stigmata
  • Day 4
    • Ryvvn votes with 2 others against Hellheart
      • Rictus and stigmata
    • Hellheart votes with one 1 other against Ryvvn
      • Furin
    • Rave, zark, and spheno, along with 5 others, vote to lynch rekard
      • ICB, Omega, MEM, dferr, and Blind
  • Day 5
    • Rave votes solo against zark
    • Ryvvn votes with 2 others against Hellheart
      • ICB and stigmata
    • spheno, zark, and Hellheart vote with 2 others to lynch Omega
      • Admetus and Furin
  • Day 6
    • Rave and Ryvvn vote with 2 others against Furin
      • ICB and Blind
    • Hellheart votes with 4 others against Meta4
      • Griffy, Admetus, stigmata, and MEM
    • zark and spheno vote with 3 others against Griffy
      • Furin, Meta4, and Wasabi

(edit: fixed for my colorblind friend, who I also recolored as the secret wolf color that he can't see)
Last edited by Ryvvn on 22 Nov 2013, 08:18:02, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Day 7 - That's the Power of Love

Postby dferrantino » 22 Nov 2013, 07:52:38

Ryvvn wrote:
Admetus wrote:I honestly don't see how Zark is a wolf given what we know about ICB, Rave, and rekard.

ICB creates a message about a wolf tip, claiming it's from a third party. He wants Zark to kill rekard. RaveBomb, his wolf lover, is the overwhelmingly likely source. It fits because...[snipped]

No, Zark doesn't fit as a wolf in this scenario.

Can you recall where the name reveals happened amid the day threads? I don't have time to crawl back through them to verify all this, and I'm not putting any stock into the PM games that were happening. I'm just looking for cold, hard patterns now, and the one that stood out to me was how often zark showed up paired with spheno and voting against Humans, except for Day 1 randomness and Day 4 take cover in rekard wagon.

In a game with wide-open PMs, you have to account for the PM game that's inevitably going to happen. In fact that's one of the reasons why we've had PMs banned for so long, because there will always be people with more information and back-room alliances going on that others aren't a part of. Especially in a lover's game, where you're automatically allied with your lover, and any alliance with a different person is an alliance with their lover as well, the PM game is absolutely important.

I agree with your assessment that the Zark/spheno thing is odd, but I also see the value in Admetus's: that due to the interplay with the revealed ICB-Rave plot, there's a strong possibility that he's human. That said, this being a lover's game, there are a few other possibilities, namely Rave playing all 3 sides against the middle (very unlikely) or Zark already having decided that he was going to play for either the long game or the lover's win and let the other wolves crash and burn around him (which I feel is out of character for Zark).

The Zark/spheno pairing feels like a PM alliance, which would jive with my assessment of the Day 2 trains on day 4. Whether or not one of them is a wolf is yet to be seen, but IMO it's either one or none, not both.

As I said yesterday, I have had shit reads on people all game. I was going to throw a vote down on ICB before I left the office, because I had literally nothing else to go on, and I guess it would have been a worthwhile vote after all, though the backlash from a wolf Vengeful Lover would have made it an unexpected 1-for-2.

pre-post edit: That shade of purple is almost indistinguishable from blue for me. Mind using a different color? I hesitate to suggest orange as certain shades of it match up with certain shades of green :|

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Re: Day 7 - That's the Power of Love

Postby Ryvvn » 22 Nov 2013, 07:57:08

dferrantino wrote:pre-post edit: That shade of purple is almost indistinguishable from blue for me. Mind using a different color? I hesitate to suggest orange as certain shades of it match up with certain shades of green :|

Note my apology at the bottom ;)

(but yes, I'll go in and try to select a different color)

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Re: Day 7 - That's the Power of Love

Postby Ryvvn » 22 Nov 2013, 07:59:56

dferrantino wrote:In a game with wide-open PMs, you have to account for the PM game that's inevitably going to happen. In fact that's one of the reasons why we've had PMs banned for so long, because there will always be people with more information and back-room alliances going on that others aren't a part of. Especially in a lover's game, where you're automatically allied with your lover, and any alliance with a different person is an alliance with their lover as well, the PM game is absolutely important.

All I'm saying is the PM game is full of lies (as I've been first hand witness to) and I have solid information in front of my eyes that raises suspicions; I'm just trying to provide additional ways to look at things rather than, "It sounds like he said, but I think he said, and he might have said...."
Last edited by Ryvvn on 22 Nov 2013, 08:04:51, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Day 7 - That's the Power of Love

Postby dferrantino » 22 Nov 2013, 08:00:46

I'm playing! Just having absolute shit timing this game. I had plenty of time to play during work yesterday, but couldn't make a decision on who to vote for before I left for trivia :(

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Re: Day 7 - That's the Power of Love

Postby dferrantino » 22 Nov 2013, 08:02:24

Ryvvn wrote:
dferrantino wrote:In a game with wide-open PMs, you have to account for the PM game that's inevitably going to happen. In fact that's one of the reasons why we've had PMs banned for so long, because there will always be people with more information and back-room alliances going on that others aren't a part of. Especially in a lover's game, where you're automatically allied with your lover, and any alliance with a different person is an alliance with their lover as well, the PM game is absolutely important.

All I'm saying is the PM game is full of lies (as I've been first hand witness to) and I have solid information in front of my eyes that raises suspicions; I'm just trying to provide additional ways to look at things rather than, "It sounds like he said, but he said, and he said...."

Gotcha. That makes sense, but just realize that some players may have allied themselves with others via PM, so voting blocks aren't necessarily wolves. In fact, they're probably more likely to be human than not. Whether or not they're telling the truth to each other is a completely different story.

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Re: Day 7 - That's the Power of Love

Postby Ryvvn » 22 Nov 2013, 08:07:41

dferrantino wrote:Gotcha. That makes sense, but just realize that some players may have allied themselves with others via PM, so voting blocks aren't necessarily wolves. In fact, they're probably more likely to be human than not. Whether or not they're telling the truth to each other is a completely different story.

My vote on Zark is placeholder, as I'm much more interested to know if he is Hellheart's other lover and if HH was choosing to lie about his lovers' knowledge of each other; and obviously I'd be very interested to hear what Zark himself has to say about the whole thing.

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Re: Day 7 - That's the Power of Love

Postby Meta4 » 22 Nov 2013, 08:43:18

Stigmata, why so quiet?

This is just a placeholder vote, I'll do proper vote analysis (including MINIVAN) later tonight. Sadly, I actually have to do some work today.
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Re: Day 7 - That's the Power of Love

Postby FurinMirado » 22 Nov 2013, 08:46:59

I'm finding the Day 1 voting history interesting:

Day 1 Vote Tally

Visigoth - 6 - DastardlyOldMan, Admetus, Omega, Mortus, Griffypoo, Hellheart
Mister E Meat - 4 - Sphenodont, 7-Zark-7, Ravebomb, Ryvvn
Hellheart - 4 - necklessone, okaros, twdog, visigoth
Ravebomb - 2 - Meta4, Wasabi
DastardlyOldMan - 2 - FurinMirado, rekard
Dferrantino - 1 - Iron Clad Burrito
Ryvvn - 1 - Mister E Meat
Mortus - 1 – Dferrantino

Did Not Vote: Blindsniper, Rictus, Stigmata

Those that voted with a Wolf look less likely to be a Wolf. Those that voted on a Wolf look less likely to be a Wolf. The players with unknown affiliation that voted on a Human look a little more likely to be a Wolf.

But all of this means nothing without looking at the timing of the votes and any votes that were moved. So I'll be looking at that now.

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Re: Day 7 - That's the Power of Love

Postby Ryvvn » 22 Nov 2013, 08:49:28

For anyone who would like all the days at one glance and colored appropriately:

[+] Full Chart w Colors
Day 1 wrote:(6) Visigoth -- DOM, Admetus, Omega, Mortus, Griffy, Hellheart
(4) Hellheart -- neckless, Okaros, twdog, Visigoth
(4) Mister E. Meat -- spheno, Zark, Rave, Ryvvn
(2) DastardlyOldMan -- Furin, rekard
(2) RaveBomb -- Meta4, Wasabi
(1) dferrantino -- ICB
(1) Meta4 -- Rave
(1) Ryvvn -- MEM
(1) Mortus -- dferr
DID NOT VOTE: Blindsniper, Rictus, Stigmata

Day 2 wrote:(6) DastardlyOldMan -- Furin, Admetus, Meta4, twdog, Omega, Okaros
(6) Okaros -- Hellheart, Wasabi, rekard, Zark, spheno, DOM
(3) rekard -- Stigmata, neckless, Mortus
(1) Rictus -- Rave
(1) twdog -- ICB
(1) Hellheart -- Ryvvn
DID NOT VOTE: Blindsniper, dferr, Griffy, MEM, Rictus

Day 3 wrote:(8) Okaros -- Meta4, dferr, twdog, Ryvvn, Rave, Hellheart, Stigmata, Mortus
(4) Iron Clad Burrito -- Zark, Rictus, MEM, Wasabi, Omega
(2) Mister E. Meat -- Furin, rekard
(1) Ryvvn -- spheno
(1) Stigmata -- Blind
(1) rekard -- ICB
(1) 7-zark-7 -- Admetus
DID NOT VOTE: Griffy, Okaros

Day 4 wrote:(8) rekard -- MEM, dferr, ICB, Zark, Blind, Rave, Omega, spheno
(4) Iron Clad Burrito -- rekard, Admetus, Wasabi, twdog
(3) Hellheart -- Rictus, Stigmata, Ryvvn
(2) Ryvvn -- Hellheart, Furin
(1) FurinMirado -- Griffy
(1) Griffypoo -- Meta4
DID NOT VOTE: Mortus

Day 5 wrote:(5) Omega -- spheno, Admetus, Hellheart, Zark, Furin
(4) FurinMirado -- MEM, Griffy, Rictus, Omega
(3) Hellheart -- Stigmata, Ryvvn, ICB
(1) 7-zark-7 -- Rave
(1) Griffypoo -- Meta4
DID NOT VOTE: Blind, dferr, Mortus, Wasabi

Day 6 wrote:(5) Griffypoo -- Furin, Meta4, Zark, Wasabi, spheno
(5) Meta4 -- Admetus, Hellheart, stigmata, MEM, Griffy
(4) FurinMirado -- ICB, Blind, Ryvvn, Rave
(1) Hellheart -- Mortus
DID NOT VOTE: dferr

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Re: Day 7 - That's the Power of Love

Postby Ryvvn » 22 Nov 2013, 08:52:00

FurinMirado wrote:Those that voted with a Wolf look less likely to be a Wolf. Those that voted on a Wolf look less likely to be a Wolf. The players with unknown affiliation that voted on a Human look a little more likely to be a Wolf.

Ya know, I couldn't help but zero in on your name as I read this....

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Re: Day 7 - That's the Power of Love

Postby Wasabi » 22 Nov 2013, 08:54:28

Zark has implied to me, via PM, that he has suspicions I may be the Scorned lover. His reasoning isn't faulty - he claims I'm the only one to whom he let slip that ICB had made a claim to be a vengeful human. I'm wondering if he's trying to misdirect me, though.

There have, of course been lots of PM dealings, so there's no telling how the Scorned lover got hold of the ICB-Ravebomb link.

Question #1: How important is it that we find the Scorned lover right now?
Question #2: If we want the Scorned lover out, will 7z7's lover please stand up? No, not literally. Pick someone you trust, please, and PM them. Or, if you're Zark's lover, pretend you're that trusted someone, and pipe up. I don't care who it is, I'm just looking for a, 'Yes, someone has claimed to be 7z7's lover'.

12 Players remain. 3 Wolves, 1 Scorned, 8 Human.

Anyway, if the Scorned Lover isn't found and eliminated, it's safe to say that the scorned will be leaving the game, along with Hellheart. I don't care about his personal victory, just what it does to our chances for a human win.

If we leave the Scorned alone, and lynch someone else, then we'll start tomorrow with 8 players: between 1-3 of them will be wolves, between 5-7 will be human.
If we lynch the scorned, we'll start tomorrow with 11 players: 3 wolves, 8 humans.
If we lynch Hellheart, we start with 9 players: 1 scorned, 0-3 wolves, and 5-8 humans.

Ok, I need to get working now, so I'll leave that for you all to mull over.

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Re: Day 7 - That's the Power of Love

Postby Wasabi » 22 Nov 2013, 08:55:34

I can't believe I'm putting a placeholder vote on Hellheart.

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Re: Day 7 - That's the Power of Love

Postby Admetus » 22 Nov 2013, 09:01:04

FurinMirado wrote:I'm finding the Day 1 voting history interesting:

Day 1 Vote Tally

Visigoth - 6 - DastardlyOldMan, Admetus, Omega, Mortus, Griffypoo, Hellheart


Sigh. I've been discussing that vote train with various groups of people in PMs. I think that's at least in part what lead to the wagon on Griffypoo yesterday. I know I'm human, I doubt Hellheart could fake human as well as he's doing, I was working under the assumption that Mortus was human because of his key vote against rekard. That left only Griffypoo.

But since I found the "let's all unanimously decide on an alternate" plan that FurinMirado was pushing to be so damn suspicious, I did not follow when Griffypoo was selected.

Seriously, I went along with that discussion only because I was sure there was going to be a "gotcha!" at the end. Why the hell would it be a good idea for the four people who have the most votes against them, at mid-game where hopefully at least some wolf is being pressured, to agree on an entirely separate person to lynch? If there is a wolf in the group, you have definitely selected a human. If there is no wolf in the group, you still may have selected a human. It seems like a really poor plan.

Unfortunately all of this was happening as I was rushing out of the office to get to rehearsal, and the rehearsal itself was pretty intense, so I could only briefly log in to register my complaint in the main thread.

But no, there was no "gotcha," Griffypoo got lynched, and guess what, he was a human.

So I'm going back to my vote from yesterday, for Meta4. And at this point, I'd probably consider FurinMirado as well.


-edited in quote for context
Last edited by Admetus on 22 Nov 2013, 09:03:45, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Day 7 - That's the Power of Love

Postby Admetus » 22 Nov 2013, 09:02:37

Wasabi wrote:I can't believe I'm putting a placeholder vote on Hellheart.

About the scorned lover -- there's another possibility, which is that Hellheart or Sphenodont has that role. It would explain why the SL went for someone that wasn't Hellheart, when Hellheart could very well get lynched today and he'd be out a target.

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Re: Day 7 - That's the Power of Love

Postby Ryvvn » 22 Nov 2013, 09:03:45

Since I just posted that full chart, I'll go ahead and mention the other interesting thing I saw:
(as before, these are not votes)

Meta4 and Wasabi Pattern wrote:
  • Day 1 - Meta4 and Wasabi vote together on Rave
  • Then for the majority of days they vote apart and each on a Human
    • Day 2 - Meta4 on DOM, Wasabi on Okaros
    • Day 3 - Meta4 on Okaros, Wasabi on ICB
    • Day 4 - Meta4 on Griffy, Wasabi on ICB
    • Day 5 - Meta4 on Griffy, and this is the outlier since Wasabi Did Not Vote
  • Day 6 - Meta4 and Wasabi once again vote together on Griffy
Last edited by Ryvvn on 22 Nov 2013, 09:11:54, edited 6 times in total.

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Re: Day 7 - That's the Power of Love

Postby dferrantino » 22 Nov 2013, 09:06:03

Admetus wrote:
Wasabi wrote:I can't believe I'm putting a placeholder vote on Hellheart.

About the scorned lover -- there's another possibility, which is that Hellheart or Sphenodont has that role. It would explain why the SL went for someone that wasn't Hellheart, when Hellheart could very well get lynched today and he'd be out a target.

If we're trusting that Hellheart is actually the bigamist and sphenodont is one of his lovers, that's impossible. Scorned Lover is explicitly not tied to anyone else.

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Re: Day 7 - That's the Power of Love

Postby Admetus » 22 Nov 2013, 09:08:03

That's why I said him or Sphenodont. It answers both "why did Hellheart not die" and "why did Sphenodont not publicly disagree that he loved Hellheart?" In fact, Sphenodont fits better than Hellheart there, but still works the other way.

But I'm not sure it matters? I'd rather pursue one of the more likely wolves.

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Re: Day 7 - That's the Power of Love

Postby Ryvvn » 22 Nov 2013, 09:14:20

Admetus wrote:That's why I said him or Sphenodont. It answers both "why did Hellheart not die" and "why did Sphenodont not publicly disagree that he loved Hellheart?" In fact, Sphenodont fits better than Hellheart there, but still works the other way.

But I'm not sure it matters? I'd rather pursue one of the more likely wolves.

So would I, and the fact that HH may somehow be in control or involved with the Scorned is something I've discussed with my lover; I'm just waiting for Zark, HH, and I guess spheno to all wake up and chime in before I move my vote....

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Re: Day 7 - That's the Power of Love

Postby FurinMirado » 22 Nov 2013, 09:46:48

Day 1:

1. We had an 8-way tie of one vote each. Admetus broke the tie by voting for Visigoth. Not particularly suspicious though.

2. People start building more 2 vote bandwagons. We end up with Hellheart, Ravebomb, Mister E. Meat, Visigoth and DOM at 2 votes each. It's worth noting that Wasabi is the one that pushed Ravebomb forward to join these bandwagons. +1 Human point for Wasabi.

3. Ravebomb then breaks the tie by putting MEM at 3 votes. +1 Human point for MEM.

4. Ryvvn pushes MEM to 4 votes. It would have helped Ravebomb more if Ryvvn had voted for someone else or held off on voting until a more opportune time. So this is worth noting but doesn't affect my suspicion one way or the other.

5. Omega votes for Visigoth which might seem suspicious except we already know Omega is Human.

6. dferrantino tosses a vote out onto Mortus. A strange choice, to spend your vote on someone with no votes when the top bandwagon is already at 4 votes. +1 Wolf point for dferrantino.

7. twdog votes for Hellheart, putting him at 3 votes and in danger. MEM is at 4 votes, Visi with 3, and now HH with 3. +1 Human point for Hellheart.

After that, all key votes are made by confirmed humans except Hellheart who decides Visigoth needs to be lynched with 6 votes.


So Hellheart comes out looking more Human to me. My read on Admetus so far has been Human and I don't see anything definitive in Day 1 to change that feeling.


Dferrantino actually comes out of this looking worse, but I'm not going to condemn someone based on one day. Unfortunately I don't have time to analyze further days. I'll try to come back later in the day with some more analysis. I may be too late to change the bandwagons at that point but it will be something to carry into Day 8.

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Re: Day 7 - That's the Power of Love

Postby sphenodont » 22 Nov 2013, 09:59:02

Checking in briefly on my lunch, and then I'll be offline for most of the afternoon. A group of us from work is going to go help our co-worker who lost his house finish clean-up before the possible snow storms this weekend.

I didn't confirm HH yesterday because I thought it was a really boneheaded move. If nothing, this game has taught me to be a bit quicker on my feet because HH and I (and the unnamed, but known) third-party have been dancing the Masochism Tango from day one. (Nothing against HH: he's got a good analytical mind, but he gets carried away in the moment and things that I've wanted to hold close to the chest were aired before they could be more carefully thought out.)

I did not know HH was a bigamist until Day Three or Four, and I had confirmed the indentity of the Other Lover before he publically announced that he was.

I did make a non-aggression arrangement with Zark (as did others, apparently). Some of my earlier votes were an attempt to keep rekard alive because I was suspicious of the early rumors coming out that he was a wolf/vengeful lover/whatever. I didn't like the rumor, and the way it came out made little sense, so I wanted to keep the victim of the smear campaign alive until more could be figured out.

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Re: Day 7 - That's the Power of Love

Postby Wasabi » 22 Nov 2013, 10:02:13

Once again, is it now time for us all to come clean on who our lovers are? The wolves already know who all their lovers are, so the only new info for them would be specific human-human links. I'm not sure they'll care about the details of it, though, since they can use process of elimination there.

The Scorned lover has the information he needs to win and exit in the Hellheart-Sphenodont link, unless we break that for him with a lynch.

Outing the Scorned lover would give us a guaranteed non-wolf and help us to narrow the field.

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Re: Day 7 - That's the Power of Love

Postby Admetus » 22 Nov 2013, 10:07:35

I'm certainly considering that, Wasabi. But A) that still requires a lot of participation and buy-in to get it done. What happens when, even after process of elimination, there are 3 or 5 people left un-linked? We can't reasonably find the sociopath in that. And B) what next? Do we lynch the sociopath today to prevent him from killing anyone? There are probably some people that want to see Hellheart eliminated, so if the plan is to lynch the sociopath, that also complicates cooperation. And C) why not just let the sociopath exit naturally? He takes Hellheart and himself out of the game, yes, but it could be a lot worse. He's already gotten us a wolf, which is much better than we humans have been doing.
Last edited by Admetus on 22 Nov 2013, 10:08:06, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Day 7 - That's the Power of Love

Postby dferrantino » 22 Nov 2013, 10:07:57

Wasabi wrote:Once again, is it now time for us all to come clean on who our lovers are? The wolves already know who all their lovers are, so the only new info for them would be specific human-human links. I'm not sure they'll care about the details of it, though, since they can use process of elimination there.

The Scorned lover has the information he needs to win and exit in the Hellheart-Sphenodont link, unless we break that for him with a lynch.

Outing the Scorned lover would give us a guaranteed non-wolf and help us to narrow the field.

I think our best bet might be to lynch Hellheart and prevent the Scorned Lover from killing a separate human pair. Do NOT reveal your lovers unless the Scorned Lover is gone or you're confident your lover is a wolf.

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Re: Day 7 - That's the Power of Love

Postby dferrantino » 22 Nov 2013, 10:08:47

Unless anyone knows who the scorned lover is. Killing him is our absolute best scenario.

e: Which, upon actually reading your post, is exactly what you're proposing.
Last edited by dferrantino on 22 Nov 2013, 10:09:22, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Day 7 - That's the Power of Love

Postby Admetus » 22 Nov 2013, 10:09:15

I think our best bet might be to lynch Hellheart and prevent the Scorned Lover from killing a separate human pair. Do NOT reveal your lovers unless the Scorned Lover is gone or you're confident your lover is a wolf.

But lynching Hellheart kills three people, at least two of which I'm pretty sure are not wolves. If that's three that aren't wolves, wow, we just shit the bed over some attempt to keep the sociopath in the game.

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Re: Day 7 - That's the Power of Love

Postby dferrantino » 22 Nov 2013, 10:09:47

Admetus wrote:
I think our best bet might be to lynch Hellheart and prevent the Scorned Lover from killing a separate human pair. Do NOT reveal your lovers unless the Scorned Lover is gone or you're confident your lover is a wolf.

But lynching Hellheart kills three people, at least two of which I'm pretty sure are not wolves. If that's three that aren't wolves, wow, we just shit the bed over some attempt to keep the sociopath in the game.

Ignore what I wrote, I reed gud.

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Re: Day 7 - That's the Power of Love

Postby dferrantino » 22 Nov 2013, 10:14:38

FurinMirado wrote:6. dferrantino tosses a vote out onto Mortus. A strange choice, to spend your vote on someone with no votes when the top bandwagon is already at 4 votes. +1 Wolf point for dferrantino.

...

Dferrantino actually comes out of this looking worse, but I'm not going to condemn someone based on one day. Unfortunately I don't have time to analyze further days. I'll try to come back later in the day with some more analysis. I may be too late to change the bandwagons at that point but it will be something to carry into Day 8.

It's day 1. If Ozymandias isn't playing, I vote for Mortus. That's literally the extent of my reasoning behind that vote.


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