Day 10: Religion

"We have nothing to fear except ourselves. We are unholy, awful people. Fear ourselves with silence. Look down, Night Vale. Look down and forget what you've done." -Town Motto
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Day 10: Religion

Postby FurinMirado » 05 Mar 2014, 18:23:42

Ignorance is bliss. Facts are depression. Books are stark terror. Libraries are a vortex of soul-rending horror. Welcome to Night Vale.

The hyper-intelligent gerbils have left the radio station but they have not yet left Night Vale. DastardlyOldMan’s corpse has been moved out to the scrublands and the sand wastes where it has begun to mummify in the unforgiving desert sun. Many gerbils visit the newly-fashioned, blood-stained altar to worship the slowly desiccating fledgling god.

The citizens of Night Vale have chosen rekard for a luxurious stay at an undisclosed location. He is known for leaving his holiday decorations out for months after the holiday and bringing stale biscuits to the PTA meetings. He will not be missed.

A phantom taste of roasted squirrel is meandering down Main Street today. Residents are describing it as “surprising, but wonderfully nutty with a just a hint of rosemary” and suggest you bring a nice merlot with you if you intend to walk down Main Street.

It would appear that Blindsniper83 was killed in the night. Some of the gerbils have fashioned a motorized wheelchair into a mobile shrine and are parading his corpse up and down the street as their new deity. Well at least they seem happy. Although I don’t know what the worshippers of DastardlyOldMan will think about this. More on this upcoming rodent holy war as this story develops.

Trish Hidge, a representative of the mayor’s office, held a press conference today to announce that rekard confessed to being a Werewolf. Also the mayor’s office oracle, after days spent in the dark box, has come out of his trance. He says there were 6 of these so-called “Werewolves”. There is only one remaining now. If you have any information that will assist in the capture of this person you should immediately inform the Sheriff’s Secret Police by speaking loudly into the nearest plant. Trish Hidge attempted to end the press conference at this point but was inundated with questions regarding the whereabouts of Mayor Pamela Winchell. She opened her mouth to explain, the reporters leaning forward to hear, but it was crows that spewed forth from her gaping maw instead. Trish Hidge disappeared in the ensuing chaos, bloodshed and eye-pecking.

We must all be mindful of not asking too many questions. Silly questions. Silly people asking silly questions. Ask too many questions and you may find yourself going places…dark places. Or worse, you may find yourself with answers. The kind of answers that slither deep into your brain until you awaken, screaming. So be mindful of questions and good night, Night Vale, good night.

rekard – Lynched - Werewolf
Blindsniper83 - Mauled – Resident

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Re: Day 10: Religion

Postby FurinMirado » 05 Mar 2014, 18:24:55

Final Tally:
rekard - 3 - Blindsniper83, fuzzmz, Rictus
fuzzmz - 2- rekard, That PJ

Did Not Vote (1) - Ryvvn

At this point there will be no penalty votes and no WOG.

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Re: Day 10: Religion

Postby Ryvvn » 05 Mar 2014, 18:30:11

Well played, Rictus, you threw that "lame wolf excuse" crap at me, had wolf rekard back you up, and now I look obvious... which obviously only a good wolf could do to a human.

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Re: Day 10: Religion

Postby Rictus » 05 Mar 2014, 18:35:50

The last day, I believe.

Day 1 Vote:
BlindSniper83 - (2) - simple_simon, 7-zark-7
dferrantino - (2) - Ryvvn, sphenodont
Hellheart - (2) - Iron Clad Burrito, That PJ
Iron Clad Burrito - (2) - rekard, Ozymandias
simple_simon - (2) - Mister E. Meat, Blindsniper83
Visigoth - (2) - Smirker, DastardlyOldMan
Admetus - (1) - Omega
DastardlyOldMan - (1) - Admetus
fuzzmz - (1) - meta4
Omega - (1) - San
Ozymandias - (1) - Nitestorm
Rictus - (1) - Visigoth
San - (1) - fuzzmz
sphenodont - (1) - dferrantino
stigmata - (1) - Hellheart

Yet to Vote (4) - Clearasday, Rictus, stigmata, twdog

Day 2 Vote
dferrantino - 4 - Iron Clad Burrito, DastardlyOldMan, Clearasday, Smirker
Clearasday - 3 - Penalty x1, meta4, dferrantino
Smirker - 3 - simple_simon, That PJ, 7-zark-7
BlindSniper83 - 2 - rekard, Admetus
stigmata - 2 - Penalty x1, Rictus
7-zark-7 - 1 - San
DastardlyOldMan - 1 - sphenodont
fuzzmz - 1 - twdog
rekard - 1 - BlindSniper83
Ryvvn - 1 - fuzzmz
simple_simon - 1 - Visigoth
That PJ - 1 - Ryvvn
Rictus - 1 - Penalty x1
twdog - 1 - Penalty x1

Did Not Vote (3): Nitestorm, Omega, Stigmata
Nitestorm and Omega will not be penalized as they had votes for Ozymandias prior to his vig shot.

Day 3 Vote
Admetus - 6 - Ryvvn, BlindSniper83, Visigoth, 7-zark-7, Nitestorm, rekard
Visigoth - 6 - DastardlyOldMan, meta4, fuzzmz, Iron Clad Burrito, Admetus, Rictus
Smirker - 4 - San, simple_simon, stigmata 2.0, sphenodont
BlindSniper83 - 2 - twdog, Smirker
Nitestorm - 1 - That PJ

Has not Voted (1): Clearasday
Clearasday will have 2 Penalty Votes today. One more missed vote and he will be removed from reality.

Day 4 vote
Blindsniper83 (4) - DastardlyOldMan, 7-zark-7, simple_simon, Rictus
Admetus (4) - Meta4, Nitestorm, Ryvvn, rekard
rekard (3) - Hellheart, That PJ, Admetus
Meta4 (3) - sphenodont, smirker, Clearasday
Clearasday (2) - Penaltyx2
DastardlyOldMan (1) - blindsniper83
Smirker (1) - Iron Clad Burrito

Did not Vote: Fuzzm

Day 5 vote
BlindSniper83 - 3 - Ryvvn, That PJ, Smirker
DastardlyOldMan - 3 - Clearasday, sphenodont, Rictus
Smirker - 3 - rekard, ICB, 7-zark-7
Ryvvn - 2 - fuzzmz, BlindSniper83
sphenodont - 1 - DastardlyOldMan
That PJ - 1 - Nitestorm
fuzzmz - 1 - Penalty

Did Not Vote: meta4
((Meta4 did vote for stigmata 2.0 so he will not be penalized.))

Day 6 vote:

sphenodont - 4 - Iron Clad Burrito, rekard, DastardlyOldMan, That PJ
That PJ - 3 - Nitestorm, Rictus, BlindSniper83
DastardlyOldMan - 2 - Clearasday, sphenodont
BlindSniper83 - 1 - Ryvvn
Iron Clad Burrito - 1 - meta4

Did Not Vote (1): fuzzmz
Fuzzmz will have 2 penalty votes today.

Day 7 vote:
Iron Clad Burrito - 5 - Ryvvn, meta4, Clearasday, That PJ, Rictus
Rictus - 4 - rekard, fuzzmz, DastardlyOldMan, BlindSniper83
fuzzmz - 2 - Penaltyx2
Clearasday - 1 - Iron Clad Burrito

Day 8 vote:
Clearasday - 4 - That PJ, rekard, Rictus, DastardlyOldMan
BlindSniper83 - 1 - Ryvvn
Rictus - 1 - BlindSniper83
Ryvvn - 1 - fuzzmz

Did Not Vote (1): Clearasday

Day 9 vote:
rekard - 3 - Blindsniper83, fuzzmz, Rictus
fuzzmz - 2- rekard, That PJ

Did Not Vote (1) - Ryvvn
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Re: Day 10: Religion

Postby Rictus » 05 Mar 2014, 18:37:53

Ryvvn wrote:Well played, Rictus, you threw that "lame wolf excuse" crap at me, had wolf rekard back you up, and now I look obvious... which obviously only a good wolf could do to a human.



redactedRyvvn.

Edit: LOCKED, if Furin will allow it.


Edit: Needlessly antagonistic.
Last edited by Rictus on 06 Mar 2014, 16:30:37, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Day 10: Religion

Postby Ryvvn » 05 Mar 2014, 18:44:12

Here's why Rictus switched:

He builds a bit of cred by being the one to switch yesterday, if he had stayed on Fuzz and I came in to eventually vote rekard, then coin flip. Fuzz dies, game over, wolves win; or rekard dies and Rictus is still alive but on the side that voted for a human. Rictus didn't disbelieve my doubt, but rather found an opportunity in it, by switching to Rekard, now Rictus is on the side of voting for the wolf, which means I either come in and vote rekard, still leaving Rictus alive, or I vote Fuzz (which I stupidly tried to do before I realized what was going on, was seriously out drinking, came in, tried to catch up, and threw that vote... literally threw it since I wasn't even on time), and again a coinflip. Fuzz dies, game over, wolves win; or rekard dies and now Rictus looks pretty while I look dirty as hell.

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Re: Day 10: Religion

Postby Ryvvn » 05 Mar 2014, 18:49:26

If so, then consider my vote locked as well, Furin.

If you have in fact managed to convince the two newer players of your humanity over mine, Rictus, then we all deserve to lose. PJ and Fuzz, I suggest taking the time today to take a look back, maybe even just a few games, it shouldn't take too long, to compare the game play abilities of Rictus and myself; that should certainly lead you to the right conclusion.

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Re: Day 10: Religion

Postby FurinMirado » 05 Mar 2014, 18:51:49

I'll allow vote locking although I'll need time to fashion a narrative. I have the general idea in my head but I have get the words down into solid form.

So if you wish you can lock your vote by posting LOCK: Player X. Your vote will be considered locked. If all 4 players lock their votes (and I'm around to see it) I will end Day 10 early. You may change your vote and/or retract your lock at any time before I end the Day.

If you have any questions about vote locking just ask. Vote locking is completely voluntary and the Day will end at 9pm EST if everyone has not locked in their votes before then.

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Re: Day 10: Religion

Postby Rictus » 05 Mar 2014, 18:54:40

Ryvvn wrote:If so, then consider my vote locked as well, Furin.

If you have in fact managed to convince the two newer players of your humanity over mine, Rictus, then we all deserve to lose. PJ and Fuzz, I suggest taking the time today to take a look back, maybe even just a few games, it shouldn't take too long, to compare the game play abilities of Rictus and myself; that should certainly lead you to the right conclusion.


I'm honestly not even sure what you're getting at here.

Tell you what. I'm willing to defuse this situation, I suspect you've got a few drinks in you so I will UNLOCK my vote, and will stop being antagonistic.

If you're not the wolf, then tell me why ThatPJ or Fuzzmz is a wolf.


edit: I see Furin's post.
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Re: Day 10: Religion

Postby FurinMirado » 05 Mar 2014, 18:56:44

Rictus - 1 - Ryvvn(locked)
Ryvvn - 1 - Rictus

Yet to Vote (2): fuzzmz, That PJ

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Re: Day 10: Religion

Postby Ryvvn » 05 Mar 2014, 19:02:51

I already stated yesterday that I suspected you as a wolf, and your sudden switch from previously willing to bet the game on me being human, to even listing me as least likely wolf yesterday -- before I posted saying I suspected you -- to full on antagonism toward me seems opportunistic and wolfy, I'm just not as good at constructing arguments and articulating why, as you are at tearing a human down to construct falsehoods.

I mean hell, even just looking back over yesterday now, you and rekard railed against me together hard; you two are phenomenal players that dismantled and discredited me within hours.

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Re: Day 10: Religion

Postby Rictus » 05 Mar 2014, 20:02:51

Look, I absolutely moved my vote to rekard because of your wishy washy posting. I wanted to see what you would do. You weren't willing to put fuzzmz at 4 votes, so maybe you would do it to rekard.

Do you think I'm a wolf because of my votes, or because I'm attacking you for a wolf?

If it's my votes, then make the case. Look at who I've lynched, and who has come out hard against me.

If it's because I'm attacking you, then ignore it and show me how Fuzzmz is the wolf. Because as I mentioned yesterday, he's my #2 target.
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Re: Day 10: Religion

Postby Ryvvn » 05 Mar 2014, 20:26:55

Spent the last hour drinking tea and trying to look at all of us rationally, just based on votes:

D1. Out of the four of us, PJ looks the worst by being second vote on human Hellheart.

D2. PJ looks the worst here by being followed onto a human wagon by two wolves who eventually disappear (Ozy who was vigged, and Admetus who retracted literally minutes before CAD placed a vote on dferr), leaving PJ the lone unknown on that wagon.

D3. Fuzz or Rictus look the worst: with two lead wolf wagons, one of which already shows two known wolves, I suspect the other might contain two wolves as well.

D4. Rekard's switch makes this hard: did he switch off Blind after Rictus voted to leave an all human wagon there or was it so that there would be only one wolf in each of the top wagons?

D5. PJ and Rictus both look bad, but close timing of two wolf votes and then PJ have me thinking Rictus looks worse.

D6. Rictus looks the worst being the unknown on PJ's top tied wagon, forcing PJ to bury a human (only available option) with a self defense vote.

D7. Not sure if PJ or actually I look the worst here; Rictus looks fine with the defensive vote.

D8. I definitely look the worst here by returning to my obsessive conviction that I must be right about Blind.

D9. Again I look the worst with what amounts to a totally failed snipe vote.


P.S. This didn't help me at all.

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Re: Day 10: Religion

Postby That PJ » 05 Mar 2014, 20:38:58

Good Christ, you guys left me with a lot to read.

Pleased to see we survived another night, though.
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Re: Day 10: Religion

Postby That PJ » 06 Mar 2014, 06:30:38

Ya'll crazy.

So here's where I'm leaning and why:

- Retracted Rictus, you look like a wolf. I stated before my suspicions that you're a wolf, based on some extremely odd voting--to my untrained eye. Very timely stuff, but maybe that's just your style. That said, wolf or not, I do want to take the time to say that I appreciate your vote history posts. So thanks for that.

- Ryvvn, if you're the wolf, I applaud you and you've earned a win at this point, because yesterday would be your one and only mistake. Seriously, your vote history is pretty stellar, in my opinion. The only things raising my hackles besides yesterday is Day 5 (since the other two wagons were started by wolves) and Day 7 (you led the other bandwagon opposite rekard), but Rictus looks worse in both of those scenarios (sitting on DOM with CAD, piling on behind me on ICB to save himself). That said, your mistake yesterday was such a bad mistake, I am kind of beside myself. But if you're a wolf, why the hell didn't you hop on the rekard bandwagon? Why'd you avoid the CAD bandwagon? Doesn't make sense to me. But maybe that's the point.

- If fuzzme is the wolf--which, frankly, I kind of hope he is at this point--we all deserve to lose on account of our infighting, bickering, and over-thinking of the scenario. How freaking genius and humiliating would it be if we lost because the new guy just left us to our own circular thinking? That would be kind of amazing. Shameful, but amazing.

- If I'm the wolf, all I have to do is ride this out, keep you guys focused on each other, and let fuzz vote. Which would also be pretty genius, which is why I'm pointing it out now before the real wolf gets any ideas and tries to accuse me of it.

Speaking of, the single worst thing you have done for your cause, Rictus, is to rather swiftly back off from your head-to-head with Ryvvn and offer to vote on me or fuzz. There are three right answers for the wolf; there is only one for the humans.

And having said ALL of that:
PJ and Fuzz, I suggest taking the time today to take a look back, maybe even just a few games, it shouldn't take too long, to compare the game play abilities of Rictus and myself; that should certainly lead you to the right conclusion.

That sounds like an excellent idea. Can either of you point me to some late game examples for you two?
Last edited by That PJ on 06 Mar 2014, 16:42:19, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Day 10: Religion

Postby FurinMirado » 06 Mar 2014, 08:52:32

9(ish) Hours Remaining:

Rictus - 2 - Ryvvn(Lock), That PJ
Ryvvn - 1 - Rictus

Yet to Vote (1): Fuzzmz

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Re: Day 10: Religion

Postby Rictus » 06 Mar 2014, 08:55:28

More later, just addressing this part:
That PJ wrote:Speaking of, the single worst thing you have done for your cause, Rictus, is to rather swiftly back off from your head-to-head with Ryvvn and offer to vote on me or fuzz. There are three right answers for the wolf; there is only one for the humans.


I did it because I had a beer with dinner, and per Ryvvn, he had been drinking as well. I didn't want to lose the game because two of us were being bullheaded. I was getting a strong vibe that Ryvvn was lashing out because he was feeling cornered. Either he's a caught wolf or he's a pressured human.

At first I thought he was a wolf, but then I tried to figure out why he didn't vote for rekard at the beginning of the day... and so I began to doubt myself.

But you're absolutely right that there's only one right answer, so that's why I unlocked my vote.

FurinMirado: Can we vote "No Lynch"?

Edit: Nevermind, that is a bad idea.
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Re: Day 10: Religion

Postby FurinMirado » 06 Mar 2014, 09:03:41

A choice must be made. I will extend the Day if anyone fails to vote.

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Re: Day 10: Religion

Postby fuzzmz » 06 Mar 2014, 10:54:35

As much as I feel that Ryvin is a wolf, the arguments made against Rictus feel pretty solid. Sorry Rictus, but I hope that we're right.

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Re: Day 10: Religion

Postby Rictus » 06 Mar 2014, 11:26:14

3 votes for me. Anyone have any proof? I mean seriously, look at how Day 3 went down. Look at how hard rekard was pushing to lynch me Day 8. Look at the shitty mind game he tried last night to get me to change over to Fuzzmz.

And you really think I'm a wolf?

Ryvvn at least has tried to post some analysis.

That PJ just says "Damn, you wolfy!"

Fuzzmz posts his normal 1 or 2 sentences for the day. "Well, I dunno but I"m convinced".

I'm going to be back this evening with my review and I'll make my last vote....

At lunch I looked at Fuzzmz and I feel like his vote on Visigoth Day 3 was a good vote.

Ryvvn has horrible votes, he is part of the sacrifice Admetus play, and has sat on Blindsniper for days. But day 9 confused me... why didn't he pile on Fuzzmz?

I will say if you turn out to be a wolf I think your posting in the F5 thread is extremely underhanded.

At the end of Day 9, Rekard came out hard trying to convince me to change my vote, and in the process painted Ryvvn as a weak-ass lone wolf... Pretty harsh. He also bad mouthed fuzzmz.

Now did he do that because he was trying to set up Fuzzmz or Ryvvn for the lone win? Was he hoping that when he was revealed wolf we would discount his words, and thus it helps a wolf Fuzzmz/Ryvvn? Or was it because he felt like he truly had a chance at getting me to change my vote to Fuzzmz?

But regardless, I noticed that he didn't say a single word about That PJ... who has killed quite a few humans. Looking at his votes he's done a good job of putting humans in the ground.
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Re: Day 10: Religion

Postby FurinMirado » 06 Mar 2014, 12:03:59

Current Tally:

Rictus - 3 - Ryvvn(LOCK), That PJ, fuzzmz
Ryvvn - 1 - Rictus

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Re: Day 10: Religion

Postby That PJ » 06 Mar 2014, 13:41:48

So, I wrote a lot, because I had some time, and because frankly you aim at a lot of possible conspiracies, so I just wanted to be thorough. I want to caveat everything I say by reiterating what I said when I cast my vote this morning:

I don't know who the wolf is. But I think you are the mostly likely candidate to be the wolf, Rictus. I also think I would prefer to lose by guessing wrong about you than guessing wrong about one of the others. If I lose to you, it's because of head games. If I lose to fuzz, it's because dude is random and inscrutable. If I lose to Ryvvn, it's because he stayed under my radar the whole damn time, like a wolf ought to.

With that:
[+] My disgustingly long response to your points.
3 votes for me. Anyone have any proof?

Sure, I found fibers matching a shirt you wore on ICB’s corpse.

I mean seriously, look at how Day 3 went down.

Ok.
Ryvvn votes Admetus
Rekard votes sphenodont (after slamming Admetus hard)
San votes Smirker
Blindsniper votes Admetus (now 2)
Admetus votes Clearasday
I vote Nitestorm
DOM votes Visigoth
Meta4 votes Visigoth (now 2)
Simple_simon votes Smirker (now 2)
Hellheart votes for me
Nitestorm votes for me
Visigoth votes Admetus (now at 3)
Hellheart changes to Smirker (now at 3)
Twdog votes Blindsniper
Fuzz votes Visigoth (now at 3)
Zark votes Admetus (now at 4)
ICB votes Visigoth (now at 4)
Nitestorm changes to Admetus (now at 5)
Admetus votes Visigoth (now at 5)
Smirker votes Blindsniper (now at 2)
Sphenodont votes Smirker (now at 4)
Rekard changes to Admetus (now at 6), 13 minutes before EOD
You vote Visigoth (now at 6), 6 minutes before EOD, citing “without even reading thread” and “I like ties though” (notably, Day 4 you will deliberately try to avoid a tie by voting on a human).

If you’re a human, this looks noble. If you’re a wolf, this looks like exactly the kind of credit-grab that rekard clearly went for. You vote for Visigoth, tying it up, and you cannot lose! You even admit to basing it on nothing so that if you’re ‘wrong’ and Admetus gets axed, you can brush it off! Maybe even make Visi looks victimized.


Look at how hard rekard was pushing to lynch me Day 8.

You mean the day he jumped on board to lynch Clearasday, who we all know was a wolf? I’ve been reading rekard’s old posts. He went after pretty much everyone. Having him go after you was just as likely to mean you were a wolf as a human. I’m pretty sure that’s the whole point. His first post targets: you, me (in connection to you, in particular; it’d have worked out great for him if they nabbed you first and then jumped onto me next), calls Blind and DOM okay, suspects Fuzz, and spends a paragraph saying that while Ryvvn hasn’t really done anything, if Blind’s a human, he’s probably a wolf (guess what he knew at the time? Blind was a human.) He makes a neutral argument on Clear and then doesn’t vote until he sees where people are leaning and hops on Clearasday. And by the way, to his immense credit, he helped make that bandwagon. Totally freaking fooled me.

Anyway, I’d hardly say he pushed hard to lynch you. He never even voted on you.

Look at the shitty mind game he tried last night to get me to change over to Fuzzmz.

It is strikingly similar to what you’re doing now.

And you really think I'm a wolf?

More with every passing moment.

Ryvvn at least has tried to post some analysis.

That PJ just says "Damn, you wolfy!"

…Okay.

Day 1: No vote; nothing to analyze
Day 2: Safe vote on Stigmata
Day 3: The aforementioned justification you made for being human by voting on tying two wolfwagons
Day 4: Attempt to snipe Blindsniper the day after claiming you like ties, albeit with a heartfelt and believable justification for going after a loose cannon vigilante
Day 5: On DOM, who winds up tied with Smirker (rekard’s wagon) and Blindsniper. This is the best argument in your favor so far, because two wolves on one tiny wagon is a little weird.
Day 6: Second on my wagon, which is analogous to rekard on spheno’s and Clear on DOM’s. Wolves nice and spread out.
Day 7: Follow my tie-making vote to do a self-defense and lynch ICB. Which, I confess, is exactly what I did the prior day.
Day 8: Ride the Clearasday wagon.
Day 9: Vote on rekard. You could’ve aimed on fuzz instead, unless you were afraid of Ryvvn voting on rekard, a bad coin flip, and then looking really, really bad the next day.

It’s not damning, but it’s not glowing. Fairly middle of the road, but at this point it’s pretty elementary to spin any of us as a wolf. Which is what you’re trying to do. I just think it’s a very desperate move when you’ve previously, recently, vouched for us:
The only one I'd be willing to be the game on is Ryvvn. I think he's human.

No vote yet, but I still suspect in order of wolf-iness:

fuzzmz
rekard
blindsniper
ThatPJ
Ryvvn

Bolds mine.



Fuzzmz posts his normal 1 or 2 sentences for the day. "Well, I dunno but I"m convinced".

I have previously stated how frustrating this is and how much it makes me suspect his wolfiness. I mean, hell, I started a bandwagon for it. But rekard’s desperate push for fuzz sort of puts him in a good light.

I'm going to be back this evening with my review and I'll make my last vote....

Cool.

At lunch I looked at Fuzzmz and I feel like his vote on Visigoth Day 3 was a good vote.

It is, admittedly, his one shining moment. Well. ‘Not bad’ moment. I really don’t know what his game is.

Ryvvn has horrible votes, he is part of the sacrifice Admetus play, and has sat on Blindsniper for days. But day 9 confused me... why didn't he pile on Fuzzmz?

Why didn’t you? He did try to squeeze in a vote on fuzz at the last second, which I think we’re all glad failed.

Ryvvn’s votes are… meh. Day 1 is null, Day 2 is also mostly null (I mean, I was—and am—a little suspicious, so that’s fair), Day 3 he led the Admetus votes before it could really be called a bandwagon, and then after getting Visigoth, continued after Admetus when that probably could’ve quietly gone away, and then targeted Blind. As did many of us, yourself included. He hasn’t always been right, but he’s been pretty damned consistent.

Still might be a wolf. Like I said, I can see a case for it. I just think the case for you (and fuzz, even) is better. Not to mention the case for my wolfiness.

I will say if you turn out to be a wolf I think your posting in the F5 thread is extremely underhanded.

His thing about being 5 seconds late? Why?

At the end of Day 9, Rekard came out hard trying to convince me to change my vote, and in the process painted Ryvvn as a weak-ass lone wolf... Pretty harsh. He also bad mouthed fuzzmz.

Now did he do that because he was trying to set up Fuzzmz or Ryvvn for the lone win? Was he hoping that when he was revealed wolf we would discount his words, and thus it helps a wolf Fuzzmz/Ryvvn? Or was it because he felt like he truly had a chance at getting me to change my vote to Fuzzmz?

But regardless, I noticed that he didn't say a single word about That PJ... who has killed quite a few humans. Looking at his votes he's done a good job of putting humans in the ground.

I am shocked that I even have to point this out.

Rekard’s best chance for surviving was to bury fuzz, because fuzz already had two votes on him. Mine was the other one. Why the hell would he need to convince me to change if I was already convinced? He needed to sow just enough doubt to get one of you to jump. And, frankly, he succeeded on Ryvvn, but Ryvvn was late. If he’s not a craft wolf. Although it’d have been smarter to just bury rekard if he were a wolf, gain some cred.

What’s not smart? Sticking to one’s guns on a losing bandwagon while a wolf gets lynched. Which is what I did. But to counter your claim, I’ve been involved in the loss of two humans: sphenodont and ICB. You were also with me on ICB. As far as near-lynches, we’ve both been on some bad ones. You just happen to have more wolfwagons under your belt. Wonder why that is…
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Re: Day 10: Religion

Postby Rictus » 06 Mar 2014, 15:02:03

twoThree points:


I had this as Number 3, but I moved it up top because it's important:
His thing about being 5 seconds late? Why?


Now let me ask you this... Why would Ryvvn post in the F5 thread:
Ryvvn, 4 minutes after his vote wrote:My vote was past time, hopefully Furin realizes that


Keep in mind he said that before we knew rekard was a wolf.

Consider Ryvvn as human: He really wants to vote for Blindsniper again, and so not sure if rekard or fuzzmz is the right vote. What to do? At the very last second, he decides to snipe for fuzzmz to make a tie. Leave it up to chance to see if we win or not. But he fucks up and misses it by a second (no idea why he waited so long). So he hurries off to the F5 thread to say "FM, I broke the rules and I hope you don't count my vote".

Consider Ryvvn as a wolf: His wolf-buddy rekard is in danger. Now he could bury rekard and buy some human cred, or he could just try and even it up and get a 50% chance of winning immediately. He tries to wait until the very last second to snipe, in order to at least put it to the coin-flip. He misses it by a second and is too late. Fuck, he lost both his human cred, and the shot at 50% winning. Off to the F5 thread to try and salvage some human cred.

Which one is more believable?
In this specific situation, I want to believe that Ryvvn is a human, and was more concerned with enforcing the rules than getting his vote counted. But if Ryvvn is a wolf *and "played the game" in the F5 thread*, then I'm personally pissed because he took the game outside of the thread, outside of the game board, and all the way over to the "Off topic" area. I feel like that's a very devious way to play, and I'm going to have a grudge for a long time outside of game #66.
--------------------

1) I meant Day 7, where the vote totals were posted in Day 8. My mistake. These were the votes:
Final Tally:

Iron Clad Burrito - 5 - Ryvvn, meta4, Clearasday, That PJ, Rictus
Rictus - 4 - rekard, fuzzmz, DastardlyOldMan, BlindSniper83
fuzzmz - 2 - Penaltyx2
Clearasday - 1 - Iron Clad Burrito

Rekard does his wolf-schtick "Gee, could be A, could be B. hard to tell. If A is B, then C is D. But only if F is Z. I don't know." Then makes a big plug about how wolf-rictus would have played out the votes on the first few days. Interestingly enough, he also says this about you:
I do think maybe there is one wolf between PJ or Clearasday, but the developments of the recent two days make me insecure of that. Wolves could like us to keep thinking that.



------------------------
Number 2)


That PJ wrote:
Rictus wrote:Ryvvn has horrible votes, he is part of the sacrifice Admetus play, and has sat on Blindsniper for days. But day 9 confused me... why didn't he pile on Fuzzmz?

Why didn’t you? He did try to squeeze in a vote on fuzz at the last second, which I think we’re all glad failed.


I did pile on to Fuzzmz! That's where my vote was originally.

If rekard and I were the last two wolves, then why didn't I just sit on Fuzzmz? The votes were already cast:
Day 9 18:47 wrote:By my count that puts us at:

fuzzmz - 3 - rekard, that PJ, Rictus
rekard - 2 - BlindSniper83, fuzzmz

Yet to Vote (1): ryvvn


Then Ryvvn makes this big wishy washy "Gee I dunno" post. If *I'm* a wolf, why would I call him out on it and switch my vote? I switched my vote because I wanted to see what Ryvvn would do. If he was a wolf, I thought he might be willing to jump to fuzzmz.

Whatever logic you use to clear Ryvvn could also apply to me. I made the vote, and earlier. It's exactly why Ryvvn went apeshit at the beginning of this thread.
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Re: Day 10: Religion

Postby Ryvvn » 06 Mar 2014, 15:35:18

Rictus wrote:Now let me ask you this... Why would Ryvvn post in the F5 thread:
Ryvvn, 4 minutes after his vote wrote:My vote was past time, hopefully Furin realizes that

((I'd like to clear this matter up right now, and this is in out of character marks because I do not want this particular argument from Rictus, nor my response here, to be factored into current decisions or any changes of such: I made that F5 post after Furin posted the EoD tally which incorrectly included mine, along with what would have been the result of the coin flip. I would not have been comfortable with that mistake going through, and I felt it appropriate to post what I did in the F5 thread so that others would know I did not agree with my vote being counted. I never want to undermine the integrity of the game, I do hope my time playing here has proven that to be true.))

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Re: Day 10: Religion

Postby Rictus » 06 Mar 2014, 15:46:07

That's why I put a lot of "If" statements (both in my original post and the explanation). I believe you when you say you didn't go to the F5 thread to "play the game".
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Re: Day 10: Religion

Postby That PJ » 06 Mar 2014, 15:54:31

Rictus-

Point #2 is pretty good, and gives me pause. I'm pretty surprised in general that the humans have made it this far. I'd really like to pull off a win. But I keep looking at how votes have fallen into place, and I don't get how we got through--I think it's Day 8? When the wolves had 3 to humanity's 5. Best odds they had to swing votes, and nothing happened. I dunno. Weird. And your voting yesterday makes me think the same--why didn't the wolves just pile on fuzz? But then again, if rekard was an influence in the wolf discussions, a lot of this theorizing is pointless. Too many games.

I will say if you turn out to be a wolf and Ryvvn's human, I will have an immensely negative opinion of you for pulling on his F5 activities in an attempt to cast doubt. That would be really bad form. Maybe you think I don't matter as a newbie, but that would piss. me. off.
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Re: Day 10: Religion

Postby Rictus » 06 Mar 2014, 16:14:00

That PJ wrote:Rictus-

Point #2 is pretty good, and gives me pause. I'm pretty surprised in general that the humans have made it this far. I'd really like to pull off a win. But I keep looking at how votes have fallen into place, and I don't get how we got through--I think it's Day 8? When the wolves had 3 to humanity's 5. Best odds they had to swing votes, and nothing happened. I dunno. Weird. And your voting yesterday makes me think the same--why didn't the wolves just pile on fuzz? But then again, if rekard was an influence in the wolf discussions, a lot of this theorizing is pointless. Too many games.

I will say if you turn out to be a wolf and Ryvvn's human, I will have an immensely negative opinion of you for pulling on his F5 activities in an attempt to cast doubt. That would be really bad form. Maybe you think I don't matter as a newbie, but that would piss. me. off.


a) I'm not a wolf.
b) I agree it would be incredibly poor form for me to do the very thing I accusedwas worried Ryvvn was doing.
c) Ryvvn made his explanation, I agreed with it. So it's settled.


edit: I didn't accuse Ryvvn of it.
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Re: Day 10: Religion

Postby Rictus » 06 Mar 2014, 16:29:00

Alright,

I've re-read every thread up to now, looking at the words of both the wolves and humans, as they discuss all of us. And my head was swimming.

So I decided to look at the problem areas only... and I went back to yesterdays thread.

The *simplest* explanation is that Fuzzmz and rekard were the last two wolves and so they voted on each other for human-cred.

I know I was originally on Fuzzmz, and switched over.... but I think that perhaps my paranoia about rekard spilled over onto ryvvn. And there's been a LOT of blowing back and forth about this.

I know I've gone back and forth wildy about who I think is the last wolf. That's the nature of the game. It's because I don't have the information.

So now I'm going to put my vote on fuzzmz.

Ryvvn, That PJ: I'd encourage you to go back and read just that day's thread. It cleared my head.
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Re: Day 10: Religion

Postby Rictus » 06 Mar 2014, 16:31:56

I mean hell Ryvvn, look at this post:

fuzzmz wrote:As much as I feel that Ryvin is a wolf, the arguments made against Rictus feel pretty solid. Sorry Rictus, but I hope that we're right.



You know thats a wolfly post.


edit: and I'm going out for Thai. Be on my phone for a bit.
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Re: Day 10: Religion

Postby That PJ » 06 Mar 2014, 16:39:08

Rictus wrote:b) I agree it would be incredibly poor form for me to do the very thing I accusedwas worried Ryvvn was doing.

...God dammit.

I am annoyed because this is kinda meta, and I can't ignore it. I wish you hadn't brought up anything about other threads, but it comes down to this:

- You believe Ryvvn is a wolf, or at least possibly a wolf.
- You thought Ryvvn might be going outside of the thread to prove his humanity, which you felt strongly enough to bring up here, even if have now backed down.
- By bringing it up, you have created a scenario where you lose long-term reputation if it turns out that you're being a hypocrite about it, which means
- You are damn sure that you're not a wolf, enough to stake out-of-game reputation on it.

I suppose it's possible you don't care about long term reputation, but 600+ posts suggests that you do. And since everyone will know in a few hours whether you were a wolf or not: I cannot possibly believe that you are a wolf. You are evidently prepared to stake your reputation on it.

I'm annoyed because this means I suck and was wrong, and if I'm right now, it's only because the other thread was brought up. Feels wrong.

At any rate--and you've posted since I started this post, so I see you're on the same page--my earlier belief about fuzzmz appears to be spot on.

Or Ryvvn is a really, really good wolf.
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Re: Day 10: Religion

Postby Ryvvn » 06 Mar 2014, 16:46:50

Rictus wrote:Ryvvn, That PJ: I'd encourage you to go back and read just that day's thread. It cleared my head.

One of my biggest problems with playing TWG is that I generally do not have time to look back, as it were, which is why I rely more on my personal tracking notes I keep day to day, and I combine those with what my gut is telling me. This is clearly a hit or miss method of playing, and since I now have some time, I'll use what little remains to reread as much of this game as I can. However, I'll need to find something that I may have missed, to feel compelled to change my vote here.

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Re: Day 10: Religion

Postby Ryvvn » 06 Mar 2014, 16:53:58

PJ, you make a good point, one that may be impossible to ignore; but I'm still going to reread the game and try to not factor that in.

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Re: Day 10: Religion

Postby That PJ » 06 Mar 2014, 17:01:18

Ryvvn wrote:PJ, you make a good point, one that may be impossible to ignore; but I'm still going to reread the game and try to not factor that in.

If it helps, fuzz is a really good candidate, and his point about yesterday is only really hurt by fuzz's reluctance to say... anything. As usual. Their posts can be argued to look coordinated.

And it is totally a rekard strategy.
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Re: Day 10: Religion

Postby Ryvvn » 06 Mar 2014, 17:19:49

That PJ wrote:
Ryvvn wrote:PJ, you make a good point, one that may be impossible to ignore; but I'm still going to reread the game and try to not factor that in.

If it helps, fuzz is a really good candidate, and his point about yesterday is only really hurt by fuzz's reluctance to say... anything. As usual. Their posts can be argued to look coordinated.

And it is totally a rekard strategy.

The problem for me is if he's the best candidate, as has been thoroughly pointed out, we're kind of all really good candidates. Have you played with rekard previously to get a good sense of his strategy? I find myself mostly just continually annoyed with rekard because he's made it standard to misspell my name, something I lightly joked about him doing my first game here, but thought he'd eventually stop; it's now a sort of running gag that I mostly just tolerate but does cause me to distrust my own reads on him because I'm sour (I think he already kinda knew this, I may have even mentioned it myself as I tend to be very forthcoming about whom I feel I can and can't read).

Maybe I should jump ahead to just rereading yesterday, because after the day ended and I looked back all I saw in that moment was what looked like Rictus and rekard laying into me.

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Re: Day 10: Religion

Postby That PJ » 06 Mar 2014, 17:46:12

Ryvvn wrote:The problem for me is if he's the best candidate, as has been thoroughly pointed out, we're kind of all really good candidates. Have you played with rekard previously to get a good sense of his strategy? I find myself mostly just continually annoyed with rekard because he's made it standard to misspell my name, something I lightly joked about him doing my first game here, but thought he'd eventually stop; it's now a sort of running gag that I mostly just tolerate but does cause me to distrust my own reads on him because I'm sour (I think he already kinda knew this, I may have even mentioned it myself as I tend to be very forthcoming about whom I feel I can and can't read).

Maybe I should jump ahead to just rereading yesterday, because after the day ended and I looked back all I saw in that moment was what looked like Rictus and rekard laying into me.

You should have reread yesterday by now.

I've never played the wolf game before. Ever. Or its associate, the Mafia game. I haven't even played MP anything with any of you, I think. But I did make it a point to go back and reread rekard's posts, and then backtrack and find him in other games, because he completely and thoroughly fooled me, and that made me mad. Mostly at myself. What I gleaned from that exercise is that he's basically a shotgun of analysis--so many theories and possibilities and ideas, many of them mutually exclusive, wolf and human alike, etc. What he posts appears to be completely irrelevant, because what he's looking for is how people respond to what he posts, and that tells him where to vote. That's my read, anyway.

I think what's vexed us this game is that after losing Visigoth, Ozy, and Admetus, the wolves consisted of CAD, rekard, and fuzzmz. Fuzz is not active, CAD also was almost WOG'd (actually should've been WOG'd, arguably), leaving rekard. We were looking for a system, but I suspect there wasn't any coordination going on at all--or very minimal coordination. Whatever rekard could get fuzzmz to easily accomplish and then hope CAD participated, too. But because we were looking so hard, we were easy prey to see whatever rekard wanted us to. Or, at least. I was.

Blind must've had a good read, because he called it early and voted rekard. And Rictus joined in. Not really sure why, but it was a good call.

So when I say 'it's totally a rekard strategy' I mean: based on my understanding of what rekard does, this is something I could see us doing. In his dying breath, give us so much to think and speculate about that we turn on each other. I mean, I'm certain he was trying to survive, but all he had to do was get us to lay into each other and silent fuzz could coast to victory.

I'm going to look a fool if you're the wolf.
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Re: Day 10: Religion

Postby Rictus » 06 Mar 2014, 17:49:56

Ryvvn wrote:
Maybe I should jump ahead to just rereading yesterday, because after the day ended and I looked back all I saw in that moment was what looked like Rictus and rekard laying into me.


Do this.

I thought you were wolfy as hell yesterday because of your waffling, but the more I thought about it today the more I couldn't explain why wolf-Ryvvn wouldn't have just voted on fuzzmz at the beginning of the day and called it a win. Same goes for wolf-rictus, or wolf-PJ.

I think it's because we had already pegged the two wolves.
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Re: Day 10: Religion

Postby Ryvvn » 06 Mar 2014, 17:50:46

Okay not much time now, but things that bug me:

About Rictus
  • Lacking conviction (not to be confused with my own indecisiveness, but I mean in making claims then inexplicably flipping) can mean either a flexible human or a wolf looking to build multiple excuses when questioned
  • Pasting vote histories in the manner he has been were obtrusive, not helpful; the not-helpful helpful wolf?
  • His placement in votes

About Fuzz
  • Consistently poor participation style
  • Odd votes
  • Only explanation for poor play was going off instinct, something I claim too but I back mine up with data tracking

I can envision a scenario where the wolves instructed Fuzz right off the bat to play casually poorly, but not so bad as to get outright lynched; someone pointed out along the way about how the wolves were mauling players that seemed to have low impact this game, yet fuzz is here at the end. I could even almost see a wolf, maybe rekard, telling fuzz to use the instinct line because I use it so often myself, and it's a good way to discredit its effectiveness and paint me in a bad light by proxy. But it's also possible Fuzz just played a really awful game.

PJ, any thoughts?

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Re: Day 10: Religion

Postby That PJ » 06 Mar 2014, 17:57:02

Ryvvn wrote:Okay not much time now, but things that bug me:

About Rictus
  • Lacking conviction (not to be confused with my own indecisiveness, but I mean in making claims then inexplicably flipping) can mean either a flexible human or a wolf looking to build multiple excuses when questioned
  • Pasting vote histories in the manner he has been were obtrusive, not helpful; the not-helpful helpful wolf?
  • His placement in votes


Rictus raises hackles on me, and it's kinda sad that the meta thing seals it for me, but it does. I will disagree on vote histories. I ain't got time to put that stuff together, so that helped me a lot. He didn't hide analysis in it, to his credit. He has been kinda all over the place in analysis, but so have I.

About Fuzz
  • Consistently poor participation style
  • Odd votes
  • Only explanation for poor play was going off instinct, something I claim too but I back mine up with data tracking

I can envision a scenario where the wolves instructed Fuzz right off the bat to play casually poorly, but not so bad as to get outright lynched; someone pointed out along the way about how the wolves were mauling players that seemed to have low impact this game, yet fuzz is here at the end. I could even almost see a wolf, maybe rekard, telling fuzz to use the instinct line because I use it so often myself, and it's a good way to discredit its effectiveness and paint me in a bad light by proxy. But it's also possible Fuzz just played a really awful game.

I think it's a combo of:
- newbie
- busy life
- a wolf getting coached to do some basic things

He played it cool, but with terrible justification and really alarming text. He had a vote that he cancelled after 5 minutes to jump on someone else (you, I think), and another where he claimed a vote was for defense, but he tied rather than tipped a likely candidate. But I think we've been lenient on those missteps because he's new. But since I'm also new, I don't buy it at this point. I pegged him in one of my scenarios (Rictus, Fuzz, and CAD). Replace Rictus with rekard in that line up, and dear god, I might've been onto something.

Also, I'm the one that pointed out how the quiet players have been all killed off. I stand by that analysis.

If we're wrong, we're wrong; fall in solidarity with us. But I think we're right, and I will be pissed to lose on a coin flip. :(
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Re: Day 10: Religion

Postby Ryvvn » 06 Mar 2014, 17:57:39

Another thing that bugs me is that, discounting fuzz and rictus voting on each other and discounting yesterday (potentially last day), only known humans had voted on fuzz, but Rictus has had wolves vote on him a couple of times (that D1 vote is especially curious to me); wolves are known to vote on wolves when it can be done so safely (or when one needs to be sacrificed)

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Re: Day 10: Religion

Postby Ryvvn » 06 Mar 2014, 17:59:53

I agree with you PJ, I wish Rictus hadn't brought up that F5 thread theory, it's clouding judgement...

but, as it's already there, fuzzmz then

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Re: Day 10: Religion

Postby Ryvvn » 06 Mar 2014, 18:00:13

Here's hoping we taste victory

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Re: Day 10: Religion

Postby That PJ » 06 Mar 2014, 18:01:33

Ryvvn wrote:Here's hoping we taste victory

Here, here.
PJ's general resignation towards fate is good enough. -Okaros
Then he went and shot himself, saved me and got himself lynched because of it. You magnificent fool! -Mister E. Meat

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Re: Day 10: Religion

Postby Rictus » 06 Mar 2014, 18:02:12

I cannot believe you went down to the wire like that Ryvvn. I think you were fucking with us. :)
Charming, to the last.
.

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Re: Day 10: Religion

Postby That PJ » 06 Mar 2014, 18:03:17

Rictus wrote:I cannot believe you went down to the wire like that Ryvvn. I think you were fucking with us. :)

He had to perfectly match his 6 seconds late by being 7 seconds under the wire. BALANCE.
PJ's general resignation towards fate is good enough. -Okaros
Then he went and shot himself, saved me and got himself lynched because of it. You magnificent fool! -Mister E. Meat

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Re: Day 10: Religion

Postby FurinMirado » 06 Mar 2014, 18:03:29

Final Tally:

fuzzmz - 3 - Rictus, That PJ, Ryvvn
Rictus - 1 - fuzzmz


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