The Dead Ones.

Secrets finally revealed.
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The Dead Ones.

Postby rekard » 16 May 2014, 10:50:46

Well the secret here is that this is a team game. Where no one knows it's a team game!

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Re: The Dead Ones.

Postby rekard » 21 May 2014, 15:35:30

Welcome Dferr. Blame Ravebomb. As always.

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Re: The Dead Ones.

Postby dferrantino » 21 May 2014, 15:42:49

Rekard you sick, twisted fuck.

I love it.

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Re: The Dead Ones.

Postby rekard » 21 May 2014, 15:44:57

Uhm. Thanks for the compliment I guess?

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Re: The Dead Ones.

Postby rekard » 21 May 2014, 17:13:25

MEM is overriding the maul. Ryyvn is dying instead of Furin.

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Re: The Dead Ones.

Postby rekard » 22 May 2014, 19:05:06

Welcome dead folks.

Sorry for the mess. Anything, ask me.

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Re: The Dead Ones.

Postby Admetus » 22 May 2014, 19:50:05

Wow, that is a lot of teams. I guess I have to do a lot of reading to figure out what's going on... If it's a team game, why did someone betray dferrantino? I clearly didn't have a team, and the role reveals don't seem to show teams, so are the teams getting really lucky or what? Did it matter that I convinced people to not revive or was that a waste?

Yowza, so much to look up.

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Re: The Dead Ones.

Postby Admetus » 22 May 2014, 20:04:24

So what I'm reading here is that the only two humans in the whole game died on Day 1?

Haha!

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Re: The Dead Ones.

Postby Ryvvn » 22 May 2014, 20:17:46

Ah, damn! Welp, thanks for the game rekard!

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Re: The Dead Ones.

Postby rekard » 22 May 2014, 20:21:11

The only two real humans are you and Furin.

Wolves mauled the only 2 real humans in days 1 and 2. Freak coincidence. MEM delayed the maul of Furin by doing an override on day 2. Ryyvn blame MEM for your death.

Furin has a vig shot today.

Also the nutjob and psycho wolf get more powerful if the factions get too open with their secrets. I told them to be careful!

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Re: The Dead Ones.

Postby Admetus » 22 May 2014, 20:40:25

Oh haha, I thought RaveBomb was the nutjob. Guess I misread. Oh well, that would have been plenty funny.

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Re: The Dead Ones.

Postby Admetus » 23 May 2014, 09:27:14

You all feel uncomfortable. An evil presence as if something or someone got really angry

What is this about? Is it a warning that too much secret sharing is happening? Does it only apply to the forum where that's happening, or was it a global warning?

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Re: The Dead Ones.

Postby rekard » 23 May 2014, 09:32:37

Exactly. That was a sign of MEM getting a PM block power. It only happened on private boards.

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Re: The Dead Ones.

Postby Admetus » 23 May 2014, 10:10:24

Same thing with this recent cackling?

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Re: The Dead Ones.

Postby rekard » 23 May 2014, 10:20:00

MEM will get a vig shot if a wolf dies.

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Re: The Dead Ones.

Postby Admetus » 23 May 2014, 10:55:58

Subject: Night 3. Wait what?

Ryvvn wrote:Also, the way Admetus is trying to piece things together in the vacation thread sounds like he's definitely not affiliated with any other players.

It's worse than that. I was essentially the only one not given any hints about the game. I was a psychopath that wasn't told he was a psychopath.

It was funny. I was getting wolf reads on every person I talked to. Everyone. Yours strongest as I said, though That PJ was also competing for wolfiest. I figured I must have been completely hopeless, but it turns out I was actually far righter than I knew.

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Re: The Dead Ones.

Postby rekard » 23 May 2014, 11:01:15

You died too early. If you had lived longer you would have gotten a couple hints.

Hmm. If you think about it, the wolves could reason Furin is the nutjob to a degree. Why? Because his maul was just too straight forward. If he were on a team, there should have been a protest.

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Re: The Dead Ones.

Postby rekard » 23 May 2014, 11:11:33

And now it gets good. PJ correctly deduced the alarm's warning. Also Aldax has correctly linked the evil presence and cackle to the dissemination of secret faction information in the open board.

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Re: The Dead Ones.

Postby Admetus » 23 May 2014, 11:12:16

I think I died about where one could expect. As you point out, everyone in the game besides Blindsniper, FurinMirado and myself had someone on the wolf council to deflect their maul. It can't be surprising that those are the first players to get taken out.

Just to be clear, I'm not mad, it's an amusing lesson that I need to be more prepared to think outside the box in a game that's got warnings of shenanigans. But really, there was almost no hope of me uncovering any of the truth. RaveBomb's play to use my shot was an excellent manipulation. I wonder if any of the other groups could have pulled it off as cleanly as he did.

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Re: The Dead Ones.

Postby rekard » 23 May 2014, 11:20:04

The funny thing here is that there was no need for deflection hah. Someone said Admetus first and then everybody was ok. Then with Furin was the same. You both got picked up from the very first second in the first two days where the players didn't suspect there were other factions at play. That's what I call just luck.

Basically there were not many odds that would happen and it did. If somebody hadn't picked you off at random as they did, I don't think you would have been mauled on day 1. And if you had lived longer, you would have been clued in.

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Re: The Dead Ones.

Postby Admetus » 23 May 2014, 11:32:33

Yeah, there was definitely luck involved, but of course none of them would have suggested one of their team members. It started on Hellheart (filtered by one team) and then changed to me (filtered by another team). The luck killed me, yes, but the filtering did play into it.

Like I said, I'm not sad about it. Someone has to get mauled Day 1. And I got another data point that I still need to put more faith in my instincts. ;) (And be more paranoid!)

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Re: The Dead Ones.

Postby Admetus » 23 May 2014, 11:35:07

Oh, I had been wondering. It seems like if Team A converts Team B's guy, Team C can convert that same guy the next day without running into immunity. Is that right? Immunity only comes from a team losing half its members (and the same guy can get converted more than once)?

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Re: The Dead Ones.

Postby rekard » 23 May 2014, 11:52:51

Yep. You got it.

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Re: The Dead Ones.

Postby Admetus » 23 May 2014, 12:03:38

Subject: Night 1. New Secrets

Okaros wrote:MEM is worried about his avatar choice. We could use that as reason to get him lynched, potentially...

That's the second or third time I've read a comment like this. Yeah MEM, it looks like it was going to be a thing -- until everyone started catching on to the game. ;)

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Re: The Dead Ones.

Postby rekard » 23 May 2014, 13:24:51

Nightis is having a bit of paranoia. It is rather interesting.

Since simon is in two teams and has a conversion still I gave him a clue about how teams can resist conversions.

Am I evil?

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Re: The Dead Ones.

Postby Admetus » 23 May 2014, 14:39:56

I think the game is going to enter a... delicate phase shortly.

The wolf team is down to two people. They each want to kill the other one and gain full control of the maul. We can assume that won't happen unless one of the wolfless teams night-vigs them. But still, the control of the maul is going to allow those two to easily eliminate the other teams unless conversions confuse things. It gets even worse if one of them is killed, basically one team will have full control of all mauls.

If the last wolf dies, each of the remaining teams has been told they outright lose. (Some of them seem to have forgotten this, heh.) Does this mean the only team that hasn't been told they lose wins? In other words, it would be a human win for FurinMirado and me, from beyond the grave? That would mean that the other teams would need to kill off the surviving wolf's team but not that wolf, and endure the nightly deaths all the way to parity?

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Re: The Dead Ones.

Postby rekard » 23 May 2014, 14:43:52

I have countermeasures of the avian variety

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Re: The Dead Ones.

Postby Mister E. Meat » 23 May 2014, 15:34:26

Well. On the one hand we've found our traitor. On the other, it sucks that we're down to two *and* we're now public. :flail:

Still, I can at least be glad my instincts were right about MEM. I mean really, who "forgets" who their fellow wolves are? :roll:


Yeah, nope. Not the traitor at least not really. And I really did forget so there's that. Little did I know that all you bastards were on your own separate teams.

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Re: The Dead Ones.

Postby rekard » 23 May 2014, 15:50:51

On the upside you made their lives miserable.

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Re: The Dead Ones.

Postby Iron Clad Burrito » 23 May 2014, 16:06:23

I just...

Holy shit, a tear just came to my eye.

Well DONE, rekard, my hat is off to you. I'd never have guessed this from watching the shenanigans in the vacation board.

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Re: The Dead Ones.

Postby sphenodont » 23 May 2014, 18:41:09

Hrm. I expected to die, but not like that...

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Re: The Dead Ones.

Postby Admetus » 24 May 2014, 20:47:16

Admetus wrote:I think the game is going to enter a... delicate phase shortly.

The wolf team is down to two people. They each want to kill the other one and gain full control of the maul. We can assume that won't happen unless one of the wolfless teams night-vigs them. But still, the control of the maul is going to allow those two to easily eliminate the other teams unless conversions confuse things. It gets even worse if one of them is killed, basically one team will have full control of all mauls.

If the last wolf dies, each of the remaining teams has been told they outright lose. (Some of them seem to have forgotten this, heh.) Does this mean the only team that hasn't been told they lose wins? In other words, it would be a human win for FurinMirado and me, from beyond the grave? That would mean that the other teams would need to kill off the surviving wolf's team but not that wolf, and endure the nightly deaths all the way to parity?


All the groups' rules threads wrote:Lose:
- If wolves reach parity before you.
- If humans win (Alll wolves die before you reach parity).

I am astounded that Hellheart is so willing to ram right into this plainly stated lose condition. He effectively got the second to last wolf killed which forces him into the insane position he's taking now. I don't have any delicate way to put it, it just seems like a bad play.

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Re: The Dead Ones.

Postby rekard » 24 May 2014, 21:36:25

He probably thinks in a meta way that there will be a secret phase of competition or something. So I just cleared up a couple things. For the most part, most are not really dead, are they? Hah. Just on extended leave.

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Re: The Dead Ones.

Postby rekard » 24 May 2014, 22:17:24

I have restricted the maul to 1 every 2 days or so. I had that in mind but didn't want that in stone until I saw how things developed. I certainly didn't imagine folks going for reducing wolves to just 1 when things were a bit more openly known.

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Re: The Dead Ones.

Postby Admetus » 25 May 2014, 00:47:35

Subject: Night 5. Obstacles Now.

Hellheart wrote:
rekard wrote:Wolves die. Game ends.

How does that make any sense? So NOBODY would win? The dead players would win?

Yes, the dead humans win if the wolf faction is eliminated. Same as every other time we've played this game. But why would anyone let that happen, when there were 18 / 20 players that were told they would lose if they let it go that way?

Hellheart wrote:Doesn't that mean that once a team loses their wolf, either they have at best a 50% chance of winning (coinflip with one remaining wolf or the other remaining human to determine winner), they have 0% chance at winning (in the prior scenario, wolf win and human win take precedence, meaning that one team needs to reach parity at or before the final 3)? I feel like that should've been emphasized more strongly at some point if that were the case. We would've protected Stigmata a lot more strongly.

The prior assumes, IMO correctly, that the faction with the wolf isn't going to let anyone else reach parity until the wolf dies. That would be one dumbass move.

So, how do you feel about the players that started the game without a wolf? Or the wolf that started without humans? Still feeling like you had it bad? Just got to do the best with what you have. There are several angles where your team is doing okay. Several more players than the ones in your private forum want to see you die last, that's something at least.

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Re: The Dead Ones.

Postby Admetus » 25 May 2014, 21:05:05

Subject: Night 4. Need better Hypnosis.

twdog wrote:Unfortunately, given how this game is going, it’s not impossible that in the future we may need to post messages on a .... let us say ... insecure ... board. I’m going to quickly show how to do a diffie-hellman key exchange which is an easy(ish with a calculator) and quick-ish way for two people to agree on a secret number in a public space. That secret number can then be used as an encryption key.
[ and then maths ... ]

You guys have Private Messages any day other than that day. Seems like that would be much more straightforward. ;)

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Re: The Dead Ones.

Postby rekard » 26 May 2014, 16:54:28

Furin has convinced plenty of folks to be returned.

Hah. Let's see what this day brings.

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Re: The Dead Ones.

Postby Admetus » 26 May 2014, 17:42:13

Yeah, he's doing a good job on that. We can get a bit more nutjob progress!

Might he get another vig shot eventually?

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Re: The Dead Ones.

Postby rekard » 26 May 2014, 17:45:23

Day 7 he gets it.

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Re: The Dead Ones.

Postby Admetus » 26 May 2014, 18:42:12

Subject: Night 5. A Bit Near.

Okaros wrote:I'm going to be very disappointed if you shoot me in the back here. :P

You are owed quite a few back-shootings, mister.

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Re: The Dead Ones.

Postby That PJ » 26 May 2014, 19:31:57

And yet MORE layers to this game. Amazing.

So close yet so far.
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Re: The Dead Ones.

Postby rekard » 26 May 2014, 20:03:55

Furin claimed being a sociopath, and yet the teams didn't think he was a nutjob. I had thought they would have thought so. Is there something I may have not said or said incorrectly?

I thought once there was no faction shown for Furin, there could be a deduction for nutjob confirmation.

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Re: The Dead Ones.

Postby Admetus » 26 May 2014, 20:07:09

I was also confused by that. I guess maybe they think a nutjob is a human, not a psychopath?

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Re: The Dead Ones.

Postby rekard » 26 May 2014, 20:15:36

Well the nutjob is a human.

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Re: The Dead Ones.

Postby rekard » 26 May 2014, 20:44:17

Wait. Are you saying I may have implied accidentally the nutjob was part of a team?

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Re: The Dead Ones.

Postby Admetus » 26 May 2014, 22:54:33

No, I'm grasping at straws for an explanation that would fit what they have in front of them. I'm just speculating they expect there's still a vanilla human they haven't found, who would be the nutjob, and since FurinMirado is claiming to be a psychopath who can somehow share victory maybe, that he wouldn't be that person.

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Re: The Dead Ones.

Postby That PJ » 27 May 2014, 05:19:58

rekard wrote:Furin claimed being a sociopath, and yet the teams didn't think he was a nutjob. I had thought they would have thought so. Is there something I may have not said or said incorrectly?

I thought once there was no faction shown for Furin, there could be a deduction for nutjob confirmation.

Who'd he claim being a psychopath to? I'd think that'd string him up, too.

My big mistake with Furin was ignoring that you didn't respond to my question about his vigilante-ism. That should've been a dead giveaway. Human capable of a vig without being a vig? Nutjob. but it didn't click.

Didn't suspect a fifth faction at all, either. That would've thrown all conversion speculation right into the can. Not sure how I feel about that yet. Brilliant additional layer, or impossible to scrutinize? My general feeling is that the Wasabeons and Furin have a massive advantage in that they had more of the puzzle unlocked than the rest of us (in Furin's case, all of it), and in this game puzzling out the mechanics was key. I suppose the balancing factor is meant to be that they're one person strong and relatively easy to 'accidentally' knock out in the early game, but I don't think that really works. They're either too weak or, if around for ~2-3 days, way too powerful.

At least in the Wasabeon's case. In Furin's, everyone's trying so hard to figure out the factions they've just kind of ignored the nutjob. Rooting for him at this point. Poor Hellheart's already lost, he just doesn't know it yet. Golf clap for you, Simon.

Also, it appears spheno's dying condemnation was just, what, a random goddamn fluke that he happened to nail all three of us in Nightsiders? Except Max, of course. I can't find a reason he singled out the three of us, but God damn that threw a wrench in everything we were speculating about. Sorry, Max.
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Re: The Dead Ones.

Postby MaxFrost » 27 May 2014, 05:43:58

Happens man. It just kind of sucked that I couldn't get my own team to believe that I was clean when I in fact was clean. Hellheart is going a bit nuts anyways, so I'll just grab my /popcorn and watch this game get loonier.

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Re: The Dead Ones.

Postby That PJ » 27 May 2014, 06:06:06

MaxFrost wrote:Happens man. It just kind of sucked that I couldn't get my own team to believe that I was clean when I in fact was clean. Hellheart is going a bit nuts anyways, so I'll just grab my /popcorn and watch this game get loonier.

It does suck. Unfortunately, paranoia was high, and Simple is clearly pretty good at the game. I was still doubtful until spheno outed the rest of us. That just seemed way too obvious. But near as I can tell that seems to be dumb luck or pieced together from disparate places.

Hellheart has all the pieces to put this together, including the fact that nobody said the forum was clean (not that those communiques have been 100% clear to people). He should be able to figure out Furin's identity, that Simple's a traitor, and I think they've been straight up told there are five factions now, so there should be that.
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Re: The Dead Ones.

Postby sphenodont » 27 May 2014, 06:47:22

That PJ wrote:It does suck. Unfortunately, paranoia was high, and Simple is clearly pretty good at the game. I was still doubtful until spheno outed the rest of us. That just seemed way too obvious. But near as I can tell that seems to be dumb luck or pieced together from disparate places.


It wasn't a wild guess, but it was a bit of a last-minute stretch. I had put most of it together from the PM threads and what various people had said, and then the voting on that last day just caused something the click. My problem (aside from being incredibly stupid and making that "saves the wolves!" plea early on) was that I was focusing on trying to nail down HH's faction and not putting as much thought into the others. Getting PM-muted really didn't help, because I was just starting to fit things together.


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