Night 3. One less.

In the night, you strike.
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Night 3. One less.

Postby rekard » 21 May 2014, 18:31:35

Stigmata is now away.

How can we get him back? He is not permanently dead.

WOOOOOOOOOOOOP! WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOP! WOOOOOOOOOOOOP!

WHAT'S GOING ON? THAT'S THE ALARM!

It comes from inside. Hmmm. Everything seems normal. We have to get to the end of this.

Guys, we need fresh blood.

You can do a conversion now.

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Re: Night 3. One less.

Postby Simple_Simon » 21 May 2014, 18:35:01

Well that hurts, what is going on in this game?
For what it's worth, though, his talking to himself is awfully entertaining.-sphen
You're adorable-Rave
he is a master bullshitter so he could just take things out of his own ass or whatever comes from his mind to argue.-Rekard

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Re: Night 3. One less.

Postby MaxFrost » 21 May 2014, 19:02:31

Remember how I said things will get silly? Now they get silly.

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Re: Night 3. One less.

Postby Simple_Simon » 21 May 2014, 19:05:06

rekard wrote:Stigmata is now away.

How can we get him back? He is not permanently dead.

WOOOOOOOOOOOOP! WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOP! WOOOOOOOOOOOOP!

WHAT'S GOING ON? THAT'S THE ALARM!

It comes from inside. Hmmm. Everything seems normal. We have to get to the end of this.

Guys, we need fresh blood.

You can do a conversion now.


or we can team night kill?

MaxFrost wrote:Remember how I said things will get silly? Now they get silly.


No freaking kidding. At least Ryvvn is gone at least, temporarily. That gives me a slight reprieve from the shitstorm I'm not doubt going to see today. He's one of the harder folks to defend against.
For what it's worth, though, his talking to himself is awfully entertaining.-sphen
You're adorable-Rave
he is a master bullshitter so he could just take things out of his own ass or whatever comes from his mind to argue.-Rekard

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Re: Night 3. One less.

Postby rekard » 21 May 2014, 19:07:49

Stigmata can post on this board still, as he is not full dead yet.

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Re: Night 3. One less.

Postby stigmata » 21 May 2014, 19:09:26

wot wot wot

e: I'm afraid I can't see the wolf board anymore.

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Re: Night 3. One less.

Postby Simple_Simon » 21 May 2014, 19:14:06

stigmata wrote:wot wot wot

e: I'm afraid I can't see the wolf board anymore.


What happened to change the maul?
For what it's worth, though, his talking to himself is awfully entertaining.-sphen
You're adorable-Rave
he is a master bullshitter so he could just take things out of his own ass or whatever comes from his mind to argue.-Rekard

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Re: Night 3. One less.

Postby stigmata » 21 May 2014, 19:16:30

I didn't see anything - I fell asleep and woke up 10 minutes before EOD for the snipe. My previous check had been an hour before, so it was a last-minute thing.

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Re: Night 3. One less.

Postby Simple_Simon » 21 May 2014, 19:18:43

stigmata wrote:I didn't see anything - I fell asleep and woke up 10 minutes before EOD for the snipe. My previous check had been an hour before, so it was a last-minute thing.


Interesting, thanks.

Edit: Just curious is there some sort of vacation thread? Can you share any details of goings on in there, if there is anything going on in there worth mentioning?
Last edited by Simple_Simon on 21 May 2014, 19:19:28, edited 1 time in total.
For what it's worth, though, his talking to himself is awfully entertaining.-sphen
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Re: Night 3. One less.

Postby rekard » 21 May 2014, 19:18:55

The Intelligence update says that ~38% of the live players are immune to conversion. That's not including you people of the Nightis faction or any of those in the vacation spot.

You can't have two wolves at a time in the same team though. You can decide to convert a wolf, but if you do, Stigmata will not be able to be revived. If you choose that course of action, only ~23% of live players are immune.

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Re: Night 3. One less.

Postby Simple_Simon » 21 May 2014, 19:20:33

rekard wrote:The Intelligence update says that ~38% of the live players are immune to conversion. That's not including you people of the Nightis faction or any of those in the vacation spot.

You can't have two wolves at a time in the same team though. You can decide to convert a wolf, but if you do, Stigmata will not be able to be revived. If you choose that course of action, only ~23% of live players are immune.


Or we can say screw it and go for a team night kill can't we? (edit: actually nevermind this, I guess that only happens if he dies for dead)

Also did you give us our seer results? Haven't seen it if you did.
Last edited by Simple_Simon on 21 May 2014, 19:21:39, edited 1 time in total.
For what it's worth, though, his talking to himself is awfully entertaining.-sphen
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Re: Night 3. One less.

Postby stigmata » 21 May 2014, 19:20:59

^ Don't convert a wolf, we already know that they're actually the least valuable players in the game. Go for someone that voted for me; you can at least try to find out who's in one other faction that way.

Best guess on the maul: two people were immune, but I can't think of a reason why that would have been the case.

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Re: Night 3. One less.

Postby rekard » 21 May 2014, 19:24:17

Sphenodont is not a nutjob.

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Re: Night 3. One less.

Postby Simple_Simon » 21 May 2014, 19:24:50

rekard wrote:Sphenodont is not a nutjob.


Thank you oh cruel one. :D
For what it's worth, though, his talking to himself is awfully entertaining.-sphen
You're adorable-Rave
he is a master bullshitter so he could just take things out of his own ass or whatever comes from his mind to argue.-Rekard

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Re: Night 3. One less.

Postby Hellheart » 21 May 2014, 19:58:11

Spheno's our best contact going forward, at least for now. Here's his PM today and my response. I expect the next one to take awhile because we need more content, but I did want him to make a gesture to show that he really believes that we need to work together. We're going to need numbers right now.

If we're going to save you, we'll need to team-reveal likely. Or at least something like that...

Hmmm. Maybe you can pull off a "we were talking via PM and he told me that he was the wolf traitor, and told me we should get Meta4" thing, but depending on who's involved with what you may not get much leeway going in that direction. By the way, the difference in the whole wolf conversion immunity thing is a "whopping" 15%, or 1 player. I assume that player is Meta4.

EDIT: The above is wrong. I don't want to figure it out right now, but I'll do it tonight along with making a day thread post. I think 2 wolves are immune, but I'd need to run the math the old-fashioned way because I can't reverse-engineer the difference that easily.

sphenodont wrote:
Hellheart wrote:If there are sacrificial wolves that we both know, then you wouldn't mind giving us their names, right? Because supposedly we both know them already.[/color]


Le sigh. That's the problem with you Americans. No sense of the game, you just want to round the bases.

I'll give you stig and Okaros, and now you can act like you didn't know that.

Do you know the other two?


Hellheart wrote:I'm sorry about this, my partner's not very trusting. The remaining wolves are MEM and your wolf, Meta4. Clearly there's more than one of these groups. This leads to many questions: how many of these groups are there, are there really any sociopaths at all, how unsynchronous are these groups, what would actually happen if all of the wolves die, and most importantly...

Is there anyplace around here that has great takeout?

Seriously, it's like nobody here ever goes out to eat. Do you have any idea how hard it is to get psychic vibrations when you're starving?

I suppose you can start with how you figured this all out, since clearly you know about this before we did. And that's suspicious. Not to mention that we can't see you at all.

He's got a point. You're literally invisible. I don't even know what kind of animal you are, but based on everything we've seen you're probably...I don't know, a camel? A manatee?

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Re: Night 3. One less.

Postby MaxFrost » 21 May 2014, 21:12:05

I haven't been converted. At least not yet. I think I'm still a bit too low key/not in the swing of things for that to happen.

We may need to change how we think about this game. We know who the wolfs are, but we should probably be targeting the humans instead, as they're the ones who will turn the vote on us _hard_ if their wolf dies, not to mention their own kill.

I'm all for starting on bandwagon on stigmata.

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Re: Night 3. One less.

Postby Hellheart » 21 May 2014, 21:21:37

We have two options if we still want a wolf:

1) Broker a deal to revive Stigmata. We need to outvote the 2nd most prevalent option, which is probably going to be "no revival." We need 8 votes to guarantee that, but 6 will probably do it if we're willing to cut it close. Problem is, I'm not sure that reviving him will be consequence-free, either for us or the playerbase at large.

2) Convert a wolf tonight. Stigmata's permadead anyway if we don't revive him, and we'll have a wolf again. The one good thing about this is that even though people will know who the wolves are, I don't think many of us want them all to die. The bad thing is that everyone with a wolf in the game wants to kill the other wolves.

-----

As far as a normal conversion goes, I need to run the numbers, but we're basically looking for a player that's around often and won't get quickly mauled/shot/whatever. We also want to avoid players that may have been targeted for conversion on Days 1 & 2. I'd say Zark if we're okay with risking his eventual death, and That PJ if we're looking for a player that can contribute and is more likely to squeak by over time. Zark is more likely to already be converted, but he can play the PM game really well. I might poke him, and I'll chat with Okaros a bit to see if I can pull out something from what he knows.

I'm going to say we should seer Blindsniper and hope he's a Nutjob. If he's not our Nutjob, we may find out the members of another team or be able to trade his identity for a favor at some point.

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Re: Night 3. One less.

Postby Hellheart » 21 May 2014, 21:41:32

Stigmata, is anyone unusually quiet on the "temporarily dead" forum? If Admetus doesn't do a lot of commentary, he's on a team as well.

------

Simon, on second thought, this shouldn't be hard to defend. You could say that you realized you put an extra vote on Meta4, but Stigmata had cast his defensive vote so you expected Meta4 to retaliate. It won't get you much, but it's at least believable.

We either break the team thing wide open today or tomorrow. I might have to set up a team-member baton pass with sphenodont in order to work around the PM limitations. We'll see how things develop there, but I'd rather work with sphenodont in secret if it'll keep you alive, so I don't want to expose the whole team mechanic if he's not okay with that.

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Re: Night 3. One less.

Postby Hellheart » 21 May 2014, 22:58:52

Running the numbers

2 players were immune to conversion at the start of Day 1. We may have one or both of those players.

Now 2 humans are immune to conversion, and 2.5 wolves are immune to conversion. I'm going to interpret the latter as: one wolf is unaffiliated, but there's only a 50% chance of converting him (more likely, a 50% chance that he becomes immune tonight before the conversion attempt).

The difference in immune players can come from a lot of avenues other than conversion (Nutjobs pegging players to solidify their affiliation, for example), but I'm working off of the assumption that any given player can only be converted once. So I'd say that at least two players have been converted since Day 1, either to replace removed team members or using a pure conversion mechanic.

------

Speculation

I'm almost certain that one of the players that is now immune was a previously-unaffiliated wolf. Unfortunately I'm pretty certain that has to be Okaros, which means I can't really give away anything if I PM him now because I don't know whether there's spontaneous immunity or whether he's actually been converted.

OR none of the wolves were unaffiliated to begin with. But I'm not sure how you get the teams to balance then, assuming that there's at least 2 sociopaths (ideally more like 1 per team).
Last edited by Hellheart on 22 May 2014, 01:45:58, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Night 3. One less.

Postby stigmata » 21 May 2014, 23:34:25

There are 15 posts on the almost-dead board. Apart from rekard, the posters are Admetus (4), me (3), Ryvvn (2), RaveBomb (2), DOM (1). Admetus has been arguing that he hopes nobody gets revived because the humans are doing fine, on the assumption that there is only one psychopath faction. I feel like he's telling, and is on a second psychopath faction.

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Re: Night 3. One less.

Postby Hellheart » 22 May 2014, 03:10:35

I PM'd Zark with this:

Hellheart wrote:
7-zark-7 wrote:It occurs to me the bureaucracy was pretty fast near the end of the day. For putting wolf stigmata back in the running, sphenodont seems pretty damn human. Following wolf stigmata onto the alternate bandwagon as a snipe, however, makes simple simon seem rather... Complicated:

Subject: Day 2 : Slow Bureaucracy

Simple_Simon wrote:vote change to Meta4

I'm far too interested in ties.

Edit: Fuck ...


It's clear he had time to edit his post & vote, but chose not to. This made our wolf lynch less of a a tiebreaker, and (if not for Spheno) would have saved stigmata. I find that worth examining...

Your dungeon is on an incline, angry creatures cannot play marbles.

More in a bit,

7z7

So your argument is that the rooster is a wolf because he snipe-voted the Yosemite Sam impersonator with the monkey-wolf hybrid in an attempt to save it. On Day 2, the same day the absurdly overmuscled alcoholic wolf got shot.

Makes perfect sense to me.

Let me guess: you probably also thought the monkey-wolf hybrid carried some sort of zombie virus.

Of course it did. Haven't you ever seen 28 Days Later?

But I sense that this Senator isn't like that. No, quite the contrary, he has a knack for leaving the obvious clues to others so he can look at the more obscure clues in greater detail.

He seemed content with the obvious clue here.

And that's what bothers me. Why waste time covering something that everybody already knows? It's like the most boring clue ever. How lazy do you have to be to look at everything that happened that day and decide to talk about that?


That's pretty much the best I can do (in pretty much every facet; I had a blast with that first sentence). It''s a great excuse to poke Zark, and maybe I can get some idea of why he's pushing you at the start of the day in the process. It feels very un-Zark-like.

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Re: Night 3. One less.

Postby rekard » 22 May 2014, 08:08:21

Be wary of revealing the existence of your faction in public. It could be tipping off the nutjob. Who knows what else he can do.

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Re: Night 3. One less.

Postby Hellheart » 22 May 2014, 08:36:52

HALP AGAIN! Sphenodont jumped the gun in the middle of my reaching out to Okaros saying basically the same thing (but in private, because fuck the Nutjob and I hope he's not a wolf) and now I have to leave for work soon and holy shit what the hell am I going to say when I get back if I get a bunch of PM's.

Let's start with the one I know how to deal with: sphenodont's PM.

sphenodont wrote:Understood. This is a careful dance among very, very shy partners. You two are so fortunate to have one-another in these most troubling of times. Do not waste your love!

I have a question, and then I will give an answer. Are your people on the lookout for a conspiracy theorist or other nutter? We are, and we are supposed to be hunting him out. (If you are able to respond and can provide some detail, I can provide the names of two people that we know aren't that person. I won't say it as such, but they'll be the first people mentioned in my first post after I receive your response. Please understand this stage of the dance is where we both commit little-by-little, so I give and I will hope for something in return.)

As for how I knew there were other families at field? Well, that is simple to answer. When you are invited to a wedding and the curtains are all crimson, you tend to be on guard. We've all read that book before. And when the second-day voting comes out cleanly with almost all the wolves getting equal heat — and that with little to no provocation — it takes but an ounce of intuition to see what is really happening.

I look forward to your response.


I figured after rekard's "a nutjob" response that we could end up seering the other guys' Nutjobs instead, so I'll do that swap before I leave hopefully, and maybe tell him that if he wants to continue the PM chain he can baton-pass to a teammate of his.

So here's where it gets difficult. I sent this PM to Okaros a little while after sphenodont's post. This was in response to a completely pointless read post that makes me think he's either unaffiliated or really trying to fuck with me. This probably sets us (sphenodont and me) up as opposite factions since otherwise it would be a retarded move:

Hellheart wrote:...Okay, I can't sit here and watch this anymore. Either you're putting way too much effort into leading us on, or you really don't know what's actually going on here.

Dude, I hate to break it to you but there's more than one traitor wolf. I know for a fact that at least 2, possibly 3 of your buddies were turncoats from the get-go.

For all we know, you're one of them too.

Yeahhh...but I figure you'd find better things to spend your time on in that case. This seems like a great way to set your own team way behind.

Think about it. We had 3 wolves dead-to-rights a couple hours into Day 2. Ten humans end the day by voting for a wolf, and one wolf tries to snipe another just to stay alive. Not to mention the alcoholic wolf, who got shot because of a reveal by one of the traitors in your own ranks.

You mentioned yesterday that the wagons smelled terrible, but that's just incredible.

You mean how much better it smells in here now that the monkey is gone?

Well, that too, but I mean...wow, two really quiet wolves killed in one day! It's like...it's like we just knew they were wolves, you know?

And this is just the tip of the iceberg! I'm pretty sure there's also at least one group that can convert people, a couple of sociopaths that get stronger every day, not to mention that "human" and "wolf" is just a cover role. This battle isn't between human and wolf because the humans would have already won that battle. The real battle is between these traitor wolves to see who gets to control the maul.

And if you're a turncoat yourself, your allies are probably not going to be enough. Also, you should probably stop wasting your time making fake reads and start spending your time figuring out what the hell else is going on around here. There's more to these people and animals than one psychic and one horribly overworked pharmaceutical salesman can handle.

I wonder who's fault that is.

I don't know, your boss's? You should request more days off or something. It's not like you show up for work anyway, you might as well make it official.

What I'm saying is: we could use your help in figuring all this stuff out. In return, we'll do our best to keep you alive. That's more than I can say for the other splinter factions, which will push you for human credibility and control of the maul.

And don't you even think about betraying us to everyone else.

Dude, we know he's a wolf. Of course he can't betray us to everyone, give the man some credit here. Look, I trust you more than Gus but that's really not saying much. We're not going to give you a lot of extra information because that's not what our end of the deal is about.

Anyway, if you're up for working with us, I'm finding it difficult to sort out all of the psychic imprints from the various allegiances. There were 20 of us to start. There are at least two groups with a traitor wolf, and they probably don't look the same. There's some straight-up humans that'll win if you wolves die off, and maybe some of them are in a pure-human splinter faction. There's also probably a couple of sociopaths and there's a faction that can convert, which may overlap with one of the traitor wolf factions. And we have no idea what'll happen if we try to bring someone back from the "dead."

How the hell can you even fit that many agendas into just 20 people?


And then, AND THEN, Zark sends this PM to me after I finish sending that one off. I need help figuring out what he's even saying here, let alone the implications:

7-zark-7 wrote:Hello Hellheart, you're looking well. Getting enough fibre?

The gods have rewarded your offering

Good, good. Let's look at what we have in the dungeon heart today:

Professor Plum, in the Billiard Room, with Miss Scarlett wrote:Let me guess: you probably also thought the monkey-wolf hybrid carried some sort of zombie virus.


And of course:

meta, very very meta wrote:Last edited by Hellheart on 22 May 2014, 06:08, edited 6 times in total.


It's meta, but implies you've put more than passing thought into your argument. While I am of course referential in nature, I would advise that all of this has happened before, and it will all happen again. Some bracketing equations:

1) The first rule of Rekard's Resurrection Club is we do not talk about Rekard's Ressurection Club:
Subject:
Die Hard Day 3: negative ghost rider, the pattern is full


Rekard the HMO's worst choice wrote:Simooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooon!

This WILL HURT!

I break an empty bottle of rum. I check where his injury is. No, you won't die today Jack. I won't let it. We're going to leave this jungle together. You'll marry Joanne and have 3 kids. We'll make our own real state agency! You won't die. RARRRRRR!


What I find interesting is that there are crickets chirping in the day thread, implying most traffic has gone to PM or other venues. This further implies the discussion is about the resurrection ship:

Subject:
Die Hard Day 3: negative ghost rider, the pattern is full


Hans Gruber wrote:The thing with a spark, is how easily it is snuffed out, or fanned into a raging fire. On that note, thank you for sending Karl's body up ((Ravebomb))... we've missed him terribly, and it was good to talk to him again. Tell me, do you believe? Lazarus rose when called to, and for those who believe in the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, and the resurrection of the body must also believe in life everlasting. So do you believe?

I've heard it said many times that there are no atheists in foxholes, and I wonder about that statement. Are you men and women of faith, or are you cowed beasts who obey your betters out of fear alone? Looking upward as you are doing now is a function of hominid posture. Much has been made over the years on this peculiarity of human beings, this uprightness. The ambiguity of this term is significant, and it distinguishes humans from the beasts they hunt.

There is a visible manifestation of the dignity and glory of the human species, and to the presence of a "divine spark", which enables you to commune directly with heavenly divinity by means of your own highest faculties - those located, naturally, in the head.

God's image and likeness in human beings is thus identified with human intelligence, and since this, however damaged, evidently survived the fall, it an be argued that the original image-likeness of mankind to God exists. It exists here.

The brain, the corpus callosum, the holy of holies. Is it no wonder we refer to the Temple when we point to our heads? That the destruction of the Temple has been a symbol for the fall of man since the beginning?


and

Subject:
Die Hard Day 4: Day 4: No Jacket Required


Hans Gruber wrote:We've spoken about the divine, about the holy, and of course the American public worships at the altar of their television every night. "Give us this day our daily bread, and forgive us our trespasses, as it is must-see TV, after all". Now it is time to speak of the wrath of god. I'm glad to see most of you participate. UnholyMacabre, well... it's time we talked in greater detail.


Setting aside the RP for a second, our lovely and talented GM Rekard has right of WOG. When he says we can't talk about the Lazarus initiative in thread, I needed a way to reference Admetus's considered input on the topic, without looking like I was ~just~ referencing Admetus's advise on the topic. You know... flying casual.

I strongly believe that if we pull ~anyone~ back from the brink of death it should be Ravebomb, but I can't dismiss the mention of risk. There is likewise risk in another faction (factions?) splitting the vote between other candidates so that either a wolf comes back, or something worse.

My choice of sidebar was specific to Horsio's Mane Conversation. Ravebomb noted the vote and said it was good, and Meta4 & Stigmata were tied at that time. I wonder what a wolf thread would look like if both were wolves & under fire, & how much info he had before he went silent.

Would those two wolves vote for each other in the name of human cred? Would a third wolf (or worse) hop into the fray to establish his humanity?

The Ravebomb / Admetus conversations go beyond hinting at conflict in the mange den... either that, or someone has Cassandra like powers. My gamble is that Meta4 is a wolf, & the lynch will turn his way soon enough (or if it does not, it tells us something). If Simple Simon is a wolf based on his late snipe, he could escape attention if we push Meta4 too early. If my push on simple simon draws fire (such as my lynch or maul), it's likewise info we don't have today.

If Simple Simon is ~not~ a wolf, my blessing of Sphenodont is noteworthy, especially if I draw the maul & am revealed human.

Thoughts are still percolating, but, TL;DR - if we resurrect at all, I'd back Ravebomb. If the horse comes back as some sort of zombie, he's just a horse. Pulling an assassin back from the dead (even known human) carries it's own risk.

If we split the resurrect vote too finely, other faction/factions can control it to our detriment.

That's all the time I've got for now, but we should definitely talk more. How's the weather in your area?

More in a bit,

7z7


Simon, halp?

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Re: Night 3. One less.

Postby Hellheart » 22 May 2014, 08:39:31

Seer Blindsniper --> Aldax

Convert That PJ

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Re: Night 3. One less.

Postby Simple_Simon » 22 May 2014, 10:15:55

I'm not entirely sure what you need help with, I have such a difficult time pulling anything of use out of 7-zark-7's posts, pm, musings, rp or even culinary skills.

Looks like he's far more interested in figuring out who to revive (if anyone is revived) than discussing issues of the day. Though I guess that is an issue of the day.

I personally wouldn't back reviving RaveBomb, his "connection" still worries me. Kind of indicates he's working for a faction we're not on the side of. Same with Admetus. Given the options I'd rather not revive at all.

If you could post more specific questions you need help with. (edit: or highlight problem areas, that's just a mountain of text and I can't really pick out of it too much).
For what it's worth, though, his talking to himself is awfully entertaining.-sphen
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Re: Night 3. One less.

Postby Simple_Simon » 22 May 2014, 10:24:51

Hellheart wrote:Seer Blindsniper --> Aldax

Convert That PJ


I get the seer, but why That PJ for conversion?

Why not grab sphen (instead of his knowledge being used against us we could have access to it), or Zark?

Or we can try for another wolf, not having one will put us at a disadvantage I think.

Also I'm still working on Blind, I'm almost positive he's not the nutjob. He definitely would have seered me by now and nothing has come up.

to blindsniper wrote:So where are the fireworks I was promised on day 2? Care to elaborate yet?


from blindsniper wrote:I tried nothing happened.

wolf! lol


I get the feeling he tried to either seer me, or something else. Whatever it was it wasn't a net negative and he didn't mention boo about me in 2 day threads so I can imagine he's not our guy.
For what it's worth, though, his talking to himself is awfully entertaining.-sphen
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Re: Night 3. One less.

Postby Simple_Simon » 22 May 2014, 12:01:47

Hellheart wrote:I PM'd Zark with this:

Hellheart wrote:
7-zark-7 wrote:It occurs to me the bureaucracy was pretty fast near the end of the day. For putting wolf stigmata back in the running, sphenodont seems pretty damn human. Following wolf stigmata onto the alternate bandwagon as a snipe, however, makes simple simon seem rather... Complicated:

Subject: Day 2 : Slow Bureaucracy

Simple_Simon wrote:vote change to Meta4

I'm far too interested in ties.

Edit: Fuck ...


It's clear he had time to edit his post & vote, but chose not to. This made our wolf lynch less of a a tiebreaker, and (if not for Spheno) would have saved stigmata. I find that worth examining...

Your dungeon is on an incline, angry creatures cannot play marbles.

More in a bit,

7z7

So your argument is that the rooster is a wolf because he snipe-voted the Yosemite Sam impersonator with the monkey-wolf hybrid in an attempt to save it. On Day 2, the same day the absurdly overmuscled alcoholic wolf got shot.

Makes perfect sense to me.

Let me guess: you probably also thought the monkey-wolf hybrid carried some sort of zombie virus.

Of course it did. Haven't you ever seen 28 Days Later?

But I sense that this Senator isn't like that. No, quite the contrary, he has a knack for leaving the obvious clues to others so he can look at the more obscure clues in greater detail.

He seemed content with the obvious clue here.

And that's what bothers me. Why waste time covering something that everybody already knows? It's like the most boring clue ever. How lazy do you have to be to look at everything that happened that day and decide to talk about that?


That's pretty much the best I can do (in pretty much every facet; I had a blast with that first sentence). It''s a great excuse to poke Zark, and maybe I can get some idea of why he's pushing you at the start of the day in the process. It feels very un-Zark-like.


I agree, it's not generally like him to bother to start a bandwagon. Feels off, like there is something else at stake here.
For what it's worth, though, his talking to himself is awfully entertaining.-sphen
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Re: Night 3. One less.

Postby rekard » 22 May 2014, 15:36:59

You all feel uncomfortable. An evil presence as if something or someone got really angry

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Re: Night 3. One less.

Postby Hellheart » 22 May 2014, 15:43:09

Simple_Simon wrote:I get the feeling he tried to either seer me, or something else. Whatever it was it wasn't a net negative and he didn't mention boo about me in 2 day threads so I can imagine he's not our guy.

He could be spheno's Nutjob. I imagine spheno needs to find him today or tomorrow, so let's not look in that direction :lol:

Seer Aldax ---> Blindsniper

Convert That PJ --> Zark

Remaining concerns (including rekard's post) will be addressed after I check the one PM I've received.

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Re: Night 3. One less.

Postby Simple_Simon » 22 May 2014, 15:46:16

Hellheart wrote:
Simple_Simon wrote:I get the feeling he tried to either seer me, or something else. Whatever it was it wasn't a net negative and he didn't mention boo about me in 2 day threads so I can imagine he's not our guy.

He could be spheno's Nutjob. I imagine spheno needs to find him today or tomorrow, so let's not look in that direction :lol:

Seer Aldax ---> Blindsniper

Convert That PJ --> Zark

Remaining concerns (including rekard's post) will be addressed after I check the one PM I've received.


Roger.

I'll be away at diner for a bit. I'll be around until EOD after that.
For what it's worth, though, his talking to himself is awfully entertaining.-sphen
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Re: Night 3. One less.

Postby Simple_Simon » 22 May 2014, 16:11:09

What the hell is going on now?

Just got a weird PM, not sure if I can quote it but I can give you the tl:dr version of it I'm sure.

Apparently I needed to use the washroom. I went into a stall to preform a #2 and there was writing on wall. Something about Furin possibly being a lover, but the author isn't sure what to make of it. Followed by my name.

I also got one from blind ...

Blindsniper83 wrote:i have a gut feeling we are being watched perhaps, so i am going to go with either Zark, or Sphen, both are good back game players


Still hasn't told me what he's up to, and I'll be damned if I can figure it out.
For what it's worth, though, his talking to himself is awfully entertaining.-sphen
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Re: Night 3. One less.

Postby Hellheart » 22 May 2014, 16:21:26

Okay, so. Firstly, sphenodont going public was an awful idea. It'll get him killed, and may get his whole faction killed. I'm worried that he may have tipped off the other Nutjob to Simon, but if he peeks sphenodont first we may be okay. I would have never, ever said anything like that until our Nutjob is dead. I hope this isn't a situation where they found their Nutjob (Ryvvn) and are just trying to anger ours, but that's an awfully reckless thing to do.

I'm really hoping it's not going to reflect poorly on us as well, because the ONLY person I've said anything to is Okaros, and he knows that any move against me will end with our publicly revealing the wolf roster so he loses the game. I don't like the idea of being punished because the other traitor faction decided to go rogue.

---

I'm looking to convert That PJ over Zark for three reasons:

1) Zark is going to be near the top of any faction list for seer/conversion because this is at least partially a PM-based game.

2) That PJ is an unknown right now, and if our conversion fails I know for a fact that he is a Nutjob. If sphenodont doesn't suddenly die tomorrow and our conversion fails, then he's our Nutjob.

3) I like how That PJ approaches things and he has time for the game, and what we really need in a new member is somebody who can be around long-term to help us figure things out and get things done. He reminds me a lot of Ryvvn in that regard.

-------

I'm an idiot as far as the conversion immunity is concerned. There are 2 traitor wolf factions because the 2 conversion-immune players at the start of the game are the two Nutjobs (rekard stated that they were conversion-immune). One conversion-immune player came from Ravebomb's death, most likely, but I don't think it was sphenodont's faction since they wouldn't have converted a wolf. The source of the other immunity is currently unknown, which sucks.

I don't think either Nutjob can be a wolf. It makes no sense. They might end up being randomly killed off because they're wolves and not because they're a Nutjob, and once they struck out against us we could just reveal the wolf roster to the world and end the game. That doesn't sound like particularly strong game design to me.

-------

Simon, Blindsniper is almost certainly the other Nutjob. I'd actually prefer that he tear sphenodont's faction apart because it'll hide us super well, and then we can move forward with Okaros as a non-converted ally and see if we can bribe rekard into giving us a co-win option somewhere down the road.

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Re: Night 3. One less.

Postby Hellheart » 22 May 2014, 16:24:06

The new PM is this one from Okaros, followed by my response. I figure we have a good 3+ days of cooperation from him, and I think we can get a full-game ally if he really is unaffiliated and we find a co-win option. I'm being super-careful with him regardless, as I know how dangerous he is.

Okaros wrote:Thank you, you've confirmed a couple of my suspicions (the overall structure of the game and the nature of particular wolves) and reinforced another (the idea that a shadow game is being played, with several people as pawns).

Since I'm not attached to a faction I'm open to the idea of working together, but your clever dancing about on the subject of your own team bothers me a bit.

So, rather than pushing for answers you won't give, I'll take a clear answer on something reasonable:
-) Are you currently working with a traitor wolf? If so, naming them will make things much saner for both of us. Despite your trying to say otherwise, control of the maul control is key for everyone.


I'll ponder what you've said re: the nature of the various factions in play and I'll keep your existence a secret since we've both got decent mutually-assured-destruction material, but in case you get any funny ideas please understand that I have a lot less to lose at this point than you do and am more than happy to go RaveBomb on everyone and everything if it looks like I'm about to be eliminated. :)

Now to go spend the evening buried in spreadsheets and sorting this out. Ugh.


Hellheart wrote:(( Okay, second and hopefully last out-of-character PM all game.

It's in there, but it's pretty hidden. You'd basically have to quote the whole post, revealing to whoever you're talking to that you're a wolf.

I was in close contact with one of the traitor wolves. That wolf is now dead, but I know for certain that he was not the traitor wolf that Ravebomb was in contact with. You can figure out the rest from that, I'm sure. I'd rather not say more at this point based on the reaction to sphenodont's post. I'm afraid he may have said too much publicly and that could definitely end very poorly for him. Hell, I've only said this much to you because you're a wolf, so if I'm going down I can make damn well sure that you'll end up losing too, as you've pointed out.

I have zero intention of betraying you. I don't even want to control you, but I do want to make sure that the other traitor wolf doesn't get maul control. I know that if we somehow both get near the end of the game you'll probably end up trying something because you'll probably have no other choice, and that's fine. Since this is a rekard game, it's entirely possible that a co-win option may open up in the future. I'm keeping my mind open in that regard.

Sorry about the busy-work, but I'm rather short on people to toss this back and forth with after Admetus and Ryvvn took an early exit. I would've probably contacted Ryvvn about this today. There's really not many others I could reasonably trust at this point. I'll offer my own insights once you have a rough idea of how things are laid out. I almost certainly know more connections than you do.

Quick word of advice: there are still several unaffiliated humans that have no idea what's going on, so if you're broaching the subject with somebody you have to be very careful. If That PJ's reaction to sphenodont is any indication, saying the wrong thing to the wrong human could outright get you killed. ))

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Re: Night 3. One less.

Postby Simple_Simon » 22 May 2014, 16:36:59

Hellheart wrote:Okay, so. Firstly, sphenodont going public was an awful idea. It'll get him killed, and may get his whole faction killed. I'm worried that he may have tipped off the other Nutjob to Simon, but if he peeks sphenodont first we may be okay. I would have never, ever said anything like that until our Nutjob is dead. I hope this isn't a situation where they found their Nutjob (Ryvvn) and are just trying to anger ours, but that's an awfully reckless thing to do.

I'm really hoping it's not going to reflect poorly on us as well, because the ONLY person I've said anything to is Okaros, and he knows that any move against me will end with our publicly revealing the wolf roster so he loses the game. I don't like the idea of being punished because the other traitor faction decided to go rogue.


Personally I consider the other factions as enemies, probably the actual entities we are to eliminate. Perhaps the long game favors those who go rogue first. At any rate we're not down and out yet. We're still at three, all we've lost is our wolf. To be honest we'd have lost him sooner or later anyway.

Hellheart wrote:---

I'm looking to convert That PJ over Zark for three reasons:

1) Zark is going to be near the top of any faction list for seer/conversion because this is at least partially a PM-based game.

2) That PJ is an unknown right now, and if our conversion fails I know for a fact that he is a Nutjob. If sphenodont doesn't suddenly die tomorrow and our conversion fails, then he's our Nutjob.

3) I like how That PJ approaches things and he has time for the game, and what we really need in a new member is somebody who can be around long-term to help us figure things out and get things done. He reminds me a lot of Ryvvn in that regard.


I like those ideas, would be great to have another voice or two in here to try and pound through all these clues. I'm pretty useless with clues. Give me concrete things like stats, vote records, etc and I'm okay. In that regard I could really use all the help I can get.


Hellheart wrote:-------

I'm an idiot as far as the conversion immunity is concerned. There are 2 traitor wolf factions because the 2 conversion-immune players at the start of the game are the two Nutjobs (rekard stated that they were conversion-immune). One conversion-immune player came from Ravebomb's death, most likely, but I don't think it was sphenodont's faction since they wouldn't have converted a wolf. The source of the other immunity is currently unknown, which sucks.

I don't think either Nutjob can be a wolf. It makes no sense. They might end up being randomly killed off because they're wolves and not because they're a Nutjob, and once they struck out against us we could just reveal the wolf roster to the world and end the game. That doesn't sound like particularly strong game design to me.


Don't forget we have to reach parity with the humans too. Not just eliminate the wolves. The other factions / humans are our enemies too.

Since I haven't really been a part of the PM game (just blindsniper and I so far, I'm typically not invited to these things anyway) I can't really speak much to conversion. What I am wondering is if there is a conversion only team out there, perhaps that is the source of conversion immune players? Meaning we can convert to our faction under certain circumstances, but that doesn't make that person conversion immune. Perhaps the faction with conversion ability only can convert people and they become immune.

Hellheart wrote:-------

Simon, Blindsniper is almost certainly the other Nutjob. I'd actually prefer that he tear sphenodont's faction apart because it'll hide us super well, and then we can move forward with Okaros as a non-converted ally and see if we can bribe rekard into giving us a co-win option somewhere down the road.


lol, I like this. I doubt rekard will change our win condition down the road though. At any rate without knowing the details it looks like blind has something in store for either sphen or 7-zark-7, and I can't say I'm not curious as to what it is.
For what it's worth, though, his talking to himself is awfully entertaining.-sphen
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Re: Night 3. One less.

Postby Simple_Simon » 22 May 2014, 16:40:06

After some clarification it turns out I can quote that PM in full ...

rekard wrote:Oh nice. Time for the daily after lunch poop. You grab your crossword magazine and head into the bathroom. Oh, nobody's here. That's the dream. After finishing the task in your peaceful loneliness you get out of the stall and watch with your mouth agape. All faucets are open, all towelettes are shredded and there's a message scribbled on the mirror. In red dye? blood? paint?

Heard through the grapevine that furin might be lover. Not sure what to make of that. Simon.


Hmm. Ok. It seems it's time for a second bio break.


Any ideas what that's all about?
For what it's worth, though, his talking to himself is awfully entertaining.-sphen
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Re: Night 3. One less.

Postby Hellheart » 22 May 2014, 16:56:22

Were Blindsniper's fireworks supposed to happen on Night 1 or Night 2? This may be the result of his targeting you. It doesn't seem to be quite as ominous as the message I got; perhaps it was, but I don't really see it. I imagine it would not be amiss if the PJ conversion fails to lynch him and Seer Blindsniper, just be sure. I just don't really see That PJ as an actual Nutjob because he went public where he really should've stayed quiet. And Blindsniper as our Nutjob doesn't make much sense if he's still talking to you, since it seems like he expected something more momentous to occur.

I wonder if our Nutjob could be having problems because he was given my identity early, but I've been very good at hiding who I've been working with.

I may adjust the conversion/Seer targets near EOD. If it looks like That PJ is going to die then I'm going to have to find another conversion target. If it looks like we can get Aldax lynched, then I'm going to probably switch the primary Seer to Furin or maybe even Zark. I'd rather have That PJ survive, but I don't want you in particular to make an obvious vote to save him.

We can't see sphenodont's faction as an enemy this early because we share win/loss conditions. In fact, we're the only players in the game that have those win/loss conditions. In an ideal scenario, we work together to keep things balanced out and set it up so one of us is guaranteed to win by the end of the game. In a crappier scenario like this one, we carefully move around each other and see if we can take out the Nutjobs before we return to all-out war. In reality, at this point we have more in common with the unaffiliated wolf/wolves than we do with sphenodont's faction, given how overtly he's trying to affect the voting.

We don't really know what'll happen when Stigmata dies, especially if our conversion fails. It may be worth it to tag Okaros. It's definitely worth consideration if sphenodont's faction gets itself wiped out. But I wouldn't be surprised if Okaros is given some way out, because if we kill our Nutjob there's no way he can realistically beat us unless he gets in contact with a very powerful currently-unknown faction. Sure, he can reveal who I am, but I'm never going to say who my teammates are, and I'd be floored if he could pick out That PJ out of nowhere if we convert him.

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Re: Night 3. One less.

Postby Hellheart » 22 May 2014, 17:01:10

Simon, what are your thoughts on nudging Blindsniper in sphenodont's direction? ;)

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Re: Night 3. One less.

Postby Hellheart » 22 May 2014, 17:02:49

...Frost? Why are you voting for That PJ?

Is there something you're not telling us? Should we be Seering you instead? :P

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Re: Night 3. One less.

Postby Simple_Simon » 22 May 2014, 17:06:23

Hellheart wrote:Were Blindsniper's fireworks supposed to happen on Night 1 or Night 2? This may be the result of his targeting you. It doesn't seem to be quite as ominous as the message I got; perhaps it was, but I don't really see it. I imagine it would not be amiss if the PJ conversion fails to lynch him and Seer Blindsniper, just be sure. I just don't really see That PJ as an actual Nutjob because he went public where he really should've stayed quiet. And Blindsniper as our Nutjob doesn't make much sense if he's still talking to you, since it seems like he expected something more momentous to occur.

I wonder if our Nutjob could be having problems because he was given my identity early, but I've been very good at hiding who I've been working with.

I may adjust the conversion/Seer targets near EOD. If it looks like That PJ is going to die then I'm going to have to find another conversion target. If it looks like we can get Aldax lynched, then I'm going to probably switch the primary Seer to Furin or maybe even Zark. I'd rather have That PJ survive, but I don't want you in particular to make an obvious vote to save him.

We can't see sphenodont's faction as an enemy this early because we share win/loss conditions. In fact, we're the only players in the game that have those win/loss conditions. In an ideal scenario, we work together to keep things balanced out and set it up so one of us is guaranteed to win by the end of the game. In a crappier scenario like this one, we carefully move around each other and see if we can take out the Nutjobs before we return to all-out war. In reality, at this point we have more in common with the unaffiliated wolf/wolves than we do with sphenodont's faction, given how overtly he's trying to affect the voting.

We don't really know what'll happen when Stigmata dies, especially if our conversion fails. It may be worth it to tag Okaros. It's definitely worth consideration if sphenodont's faction gets itself wiped out. But I wouldn't be surprised if Okaros is given some way out, because if we kill our Nutjob there's no way he can realistically beat us unless he gets in contact with a very powerful currently-unknown faction. Sure, he can reveal who I am, but I'm never going to say who my teammates are, and I'd be floored if he could pick out That PJ out of nowhere if we convert him.


Blind promised something during the day, Day 2. I've seen nothing, kinda wondering if it's just a huge bluff.

I get that we can't view them as an enemy, outright, but that's obviously their design (imo). We're not going to win as long as they're around, and they're not going to win as long as we are. I'm absolutely fine with a temporary truce to keep things going in the right direction (ie: not eliminating all the wolves so early), I'm just concerned that they're saying one thing in private and another in, well, private too.

I'm going to go as far as to say that sphen insured the death of our wolf mole yesterday. As far as I'm concerned at the moment they can't be trusted if they're going to act in that manner. Granted some trust can be tossed at sphen for his help with me today, though I'm getting the impression he's not aware that I'm with you?

So hypothetically if Blind is a nutjob, but not ours, he could have seered me, figured out I wasn't the one he was looking for and could be working to try and trade that information. Of course this assumes that the conspiracy theorists aren't in communication with each other.

What's our decision for the revival?
For what it's worth, though, his talking to himself is awfully entertaining.-sphen
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Re: Night 3. One less.

Postby Simple_Simon » 22 May 2014, 17:07:21

Hellheart wrote:Simon, what are your thoughts on nudging Blindsniper in sphenodont's direction? ;)


Wouldn't hurt, I could send him a PM and nudge him in that direction.

I guess it's all good provided the vote never comes from me. lol
For what it's worth, though, his talking to himself is awfully entertaining.-sphen
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Re: Night 3. One less.

Postby MaxFrost » 22 May 2014, 17:12:48

Hellheart wrote:...Frost? Why are you voting for That PJ?

Is there something you're not telling us? Should we be Seering you instead? :P


I'm still catching up on things. Didn't realize that I need to adjust. I'll change it to someone else here shortly. I voted before catching up on this thread, mostly to avoid inactivus.

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Re: Night 3. One less.

Postby MaxFrost » 22 May 2014, 17:15:48

And I'm somewhat scared that I haven't received a single PM...probably helps that I haven't sent any yet.

I guess so far I'm flying under the radar.

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Re: Night 3. One less.

Postby Hellheart » 22 May 2014, 17:17:05

MaxFrost wrote:
Hellheart wrote:...Frost? Why are you voting for That PJ?

Is there something you're not telling us? Should we be Seering you instead? :P


I'm still catching up on things. Didn't realize that I need to adjust. I'll change it to someone else here shortly. I voted before catching up on this thread, mostly to avoid inactivus.

Don't switch unless you need to. It'll look hella suspicious. Do it to save Simon if necessary, though.

You're probably not going to get PM's much because you're new and people don't really know how much you can contribute, not to mention how well you can keep PM affiliations hidden. I had the same issue for several games, and I still kind of have that issue. I find myself initiating contact the vast majority of the time.

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Re: Night 3. One less.

Postby MaxFrost » 22 May 2014, 17:23:15

Yeah, I'm likely going to get killed by someone, I'm being far to brunt with my votes. I am lacking finesse at the moment. Doesn't help I've been on a cleaning rampage, can't check the thread at work due to how busy things are, and you guys don't know me well enough. At least so far I'm not an internal threat, other than being a bit dumb.

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Re: Night 3. One less.

Postby Hellheart » 22 May 2014, 17:53:50

I'll explain later.

Seer Zark --> FurinMirado

Convert That PJ --> Rictus

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Re: Night 3. One less.

Postby Simple_Simon » 22 May 2014, 17:55:15

Hellheart wrote:I'll explain later.

Seer Zark --> FurinMirado

Convert That PJ --> Rictus


Alright, I'll take your word for it.

Seer Zark --> FurinMirado

Convert That PJ --> Rictus
For what it's worth, though, his talking to himself is awfully entertaining.-sphen
You're adorable-Rave
he is a master bullshitter so he could just take things out of his own ass or whatever comes from his mind to argue.-Rekard

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Re: Night 3. One less.

Postby Hellheart » 22 May 2014, 18:03:24

Zark sent me this PM after I responded to that long PM (late, but in-character)

7-zark-7 wrote:Might be nothing - might be everything. You never know.

To decrypt following message use https://www.infoencrypt.com
<Encrypted>
eqyRRLY90cNLcs642/hZ5tqpHkloQinDPGUV2yng/A030AhbvjKb5BLpv1G7Z94+KL7MMjxpPjJXDXNj
0VFIcNHOMC0bsa+wUL/IxYJAziATMJZ9mHCZFlJ7pmepc/jGZWPl0e4uSwUj5ZScr+CeDq8uHKavmZ79
LfjRGhL11wkxsNY5HDRsbvCYIOrRBOhFFHnFgyArNeHs3cM05X2Ue125ZhcyhxbPFQkumKAh0xD2qUmi
DXZnMVhcq/pY96VFYEgEToSSsYoIWYj5Y1sEqnX5Zy8tMWB9FCX4fD+sRnO6pQZzRtrESpoiMD/7WgrW
J4LYoRMTybtPdL2VrsARLJ280JbgrdYtn4e5EMsTdqu1OdtH59bA+qc0JQZT80BjAMwSW+XyB+MqQwTX
rMSW33Xi7NSQ6BW3llCRwotfQjy5AnCuLAADuyQ4GiWx4/s0OrDJj1FWDp47WNhBK0NM0UDpxDFdS60F
pqN0B0AOcnKK5vDQdR2IRfMDsnoxzSMFVJSqo/lFNn5CLwKfrQfXWvdyhWs34mnRQn+tu0b2wwRmAlIu
nNg62Gq6C/ZV07RAelZIPHSBPmr9s4YnSBv2BoiCFGbZtA156RWCUj1jvQRr0zGdMNZ2ziITBiJ1b1eG
nTHmEjfrtfSZXDU13kLo69fuO3L1QniIlAEkoPapCvc=
</Encrypted>

more in a bit,

7z7


It's a blatant play at more time, and that bothered me. It could be nothing, but since Aldax is going to die today and Blindsniper is likely the other Nutjob, I'm really worried that a Zark nutjob would be a step away from sealing the deal. If he's not the Nutjob, we probably get the password tomorrow and all is well. If he is the Nutjob, then holy shit that might have been really really close.

Since I'm now worried he's the Nutjob, I don't want to convert him. Rictus is my other "hidden Nutjob" worry, so I like the idea of trying to convert him if PJ gets mauled. He's a great ally to have as well.

Zark ended the day with a post that basically short-answered my PM (Gus only went with Shawn to talk to the demon again because Shawn promised him that there would be BBQ, but he didn't find any and got really angry at Shawn for fooling him). But again, could easily be a play for time. I think we're much safer if it's not Zark than if it is Zark, so IMO he's top priority.

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Re: Night 3. One less.

Postby Hellheart » 22 May 2014, 18:08:27

There's a couple other PM's of note that I'll post at the start of our next thread.

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Re: Night 3. One less.

Postby Simple_Simon » 22 May 2014, 18:13:04

Hellheart wrote:There's a couple other PM's of note that I'll post at the start of our next thread.


Same here, I got one from sphen that I figure I should share. On the surface it looks like he wants to open up communication, however sending it with only 18 seconds to go in the day, doesn't really seem like it to me.
For what it's worth, though, his talking to himself is awfully entertaining.-sphen
You're adorable-Rave
he is a master bullshitter so he could just take things out of his own ass or whatever comes from his mind to argue.-Rekard


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