That's What (W)e Said!

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sphenodont
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That's What (W)e Said!

Postby sphenodont » 22 May 2014, 09:17:46

Feel free to log any PM communication here.

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Hellheart <=> sphenodont

Postby sphenodont » 22 May 2014, 09:24:00

21 May 2014, 16:07:38
sphenodont wrote:
Hellheart wrote:
sphenodont wrote:The "obvious reason" would be being the deciding vote on RaveBomb, who was revealed as a human under that horse mask. But again, he was voting in defense, much like Meta4's voting now.

Something about the Meta4 wagon is very curious, and I'm not really seeing the justification.

(( Why did he not vote for dferrantino to eventually tie them all at 4, like it is now? Why push Blindsniper to 5 instead, right after 3 consecutive votes pushed him up to 4?


I think you know as well as I do why Meta4 wouldn't want to vote for dferrantino.

The question is why do we both know this?


21 May 2014, 17:07:24
Hellheart wrote:Is this one of those "I know that you know that I know" scenarios? Because I'm a psychic, so really it's always going to be "I know that you know that I know that you know that I know that you know that I know that..."

I think he gets the idea, Shawn.

Look, all I'm saying is that that 4th vote seemed like more than just a defensive vote. For all I know, it could've been a vote to protect the monkey. And I'm not just saying that because Chad here had to change his pants after a wayward fecal throw.


21 May 2014, 19:25:52
sphenodont wrote:You know I know that you're not telling the truth.

I know you're really not a buffoon, just like I know that your friend there isn't really the long-lost great-grandson of Victor Hugo. But if you want to continue these charades, we can. I meant what I said and worded it the way I ought to 'ave. We'll discuss it more tomorrow, assuming the sacrificial wolves aren't already extinct by that time...


21 May 2014, 19:41:43
Hellheart wrote:You definitely don't want to continue these charades. You have no idea how good I am at charades. I will destroy you in charades.

You'll have to excuse Shawn's behavior. He's a little worked up because he thought he was part of the the cool kids' club. He's not used to being on the outside looking in. He'll get over it eventually.

If there are sacrificial wolves that we both know, then you wouldn't mind giving us their names, right? Because supposedly we both know them already.


21 May 2014, 20:14:50
sphenodont wrote:
Hellheart wrote:If there are sacrificial wolves that we both know, then you wouldn't mind giving us their names, right? Because supposedly we both know them already.


Le sigh. That's the problem with you Americans. No sense of the game, you just want to round the bases.

I'll give you stig and Okaros, and now you can act like you didn't know that.

Do you know the other two?


21 May 2014, 21:50:36
Hellheart wrote:I'm sorry about this, my partner's not very trusting. The remaining wolves are MEM and your wolf, Meta4. Clearly there's more than one of these groups. This leads to many questions: how many of these groups are there, are there really any sociopaths at all, how unsynchronous are these groups, what would actually happen if all of the wolves die, and most importantly...

Is there anyplace around here that has great takeout?

Seriously, it's like nobody here ever goes out to eat. Do you have any idea how hard it is to get psychic vibrations when you're starving?

I suppose you can start with how you figured this all out, since clearly you know about this before we did. And that's suspicious. Not to mention that we can't see you at all.

He's got a point. You're literally invisible. I don't even know what kind of animal you are, but based on everything we've seen you're probably...I don't know, a camel? A manatee?


22 May 2014, 10:28:15
sphenodont wrote:Understood. This is a careful dance among very, very shy partners. You two are so fortunate to have one-another in these most troubling of times. Do not waste your love!

I have a question, and then I will give an answer. Are your people on the lookout for a conspiracy theorist or other nutter? We are, and we are supposed to be hunting him out. (If you are able to respond and can provide some detail, I can provide the names of two people that we know aren't that person. I won't say it as such, but they'll be the first people mentioned in my first post after I receive your response. Please understand this stage of the dance is where we both commit little-by-little, so I give and I will hope for something in return.)

As for how I knew there were other families at field? Well, that is simple to answer. When you are invited to a wedding and the curtains are all crimson, you tend to be on guard. We've all read that book before. And when the second-day voting comes out cleanly with almost all the wolves getting equal heat — and that with little to no provocation — it takes but an ounce of intuition to see what is really happening.

I look forward to your response.

P.S. I resent your implication as to my nature. I am very clearly a man among men.


22 May 2014, 10:52:00
Hellheart wrote:(( I'm kind of short on time right now. Hopefully this will be my only non-RP PM in this entire game.

So the short answer goes: we're looking for a Nutjob too, we'd love to know who you Seer'ed since I think it catches any Nutjob, and neither twdog nor you are Nutjobs.

We had to Seer you because we're pretty sure we were being watched since the start of this whole thing. It makes sense, I mean we're newly-elected Senators and all, but it feels like more than that. We thought the Nutjob might be making a play at our full group by piecing a couple things together and then approaching us as a sister faction.

I am not averse to working together for now. I think you may have said a little too much publicly, and I hope it doesn't come back to bite you in the ass.

If you ever need to say more than two things to me in a day, you can baton-pass off to a teammate and have him PM me instead. We're obviously posting these PM's into our respective forums anyway. That does require an element of trust that you do not need to hold, but it's an option should it prove to be necessary. ))

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sphenodont <=> twdog

Postby sphenodont » 22 May 2014, 09:27:05

22 May 2014, 10:34:38
sphenodont wrote:Subject: Day 2 : Slow Bureaucracy

twdog wrote:With both of our confirmed humans on stigmata RETRACTED, I'll jump on there too. Crap reasoning? Yep, but I don't have anything better to go on this early in the game. They're crazy maybe, but not wolves.

edit: never mind, I was looking at yesterday's tallies where admetus was on stigmata


I strongly suspect that your "crap reasoning" was a pretext for something we'd all like to do. Which I suspect means maybe we don't all want to do that so quickly, without perhaps some coordination?

I'm okay with ridding the world of Stigmata, but I think we all need to step back for a moment and look at the bigger picture. Shall we put your people in touch with my people, and maybe do lunch?

Note: I'm going out on a limb here, and I'd appreciate not getting lynched over a misunderstanding. I'll be a bit more blunt. If you're part of a faction that isn't the wolves, let's talk.


21 May 2014, 13:54:58
twdog wrote:I'll admit that my reason was merely an excuse. I'm suspicious of stigmata enough to lynch him, but I'm not 100% sure he's a wolf either. If he turns out to be human, I'll be mildly surprised but not shocked. Then I realised that I had a mistake about admetus voting for stigmata so I pulled my vote. If stigmata does turn out to be human, I don't want that factually incorrect post biting me. Like I said, I'm suspicious enough to lynch him, but I'm not absolutely sure.

You know, funny you should mention a third party. You're the second person today to PM me that's suspicious of a possible 3rd faction being in the game. Is there something going on?

In any case, I won't lynch you unless you do something very wolfy


21 May 2014, 16:05:48
sphenodont wrote:
twdog wrote:I'll admit that my reason was merely an excuse. I'm suspicious of stigmata enough to lynch him, but I'm not 100% sure he's a wolf either. If he turns out to be human, I'll be mildly surprised but not shocked. Then I realised that I had a mistake about admetus voting for stigmata so I pulled my vote. If stigmata does turn out to be human, I don't want that factually incorrect post biting me. Like I said, I'm suspicious enough to lynch him, but I'm not absolutely sure.

You know, funny you should mention a third party. You're the second person today to PM me that's suspicious of a possible 3rd faction being in the game. Is there something going on?

In any case, I won't lynch you unless you do something very wolfy


This is my second (and thus last) PM to you today, so I won't be able to reply until tomorrow (if we're going to continue, that is.)

I can't help but think you're playing coy, which I totally get. I didn't say I was suspicious of a third faction, I was saying that a totally-not-in-the-game third faction (you) could cooperate with a totally-not-in-this-game fourth faction (maybe me), to work to the mutal exclusion of the totally-not-in-this-game fifth, sixth, and seventh factions.

But you know, whatever.

My reasoning for wanting to lynch stigmata was probably the same as yours. Just total randomness, and not at all informed in any way. ;)


22 May 2014, 09:09:05
twdog wrote:Now that stigmata is out, I'm ok with saying that I am with a non-wolf group. I suspect the same is true for you (and everyone else for that matter). I realise that this is a leap of trust on both of our parts, but if this game is structured how I think it is, then it’s better that we not lynch each other.

So, what did want to talk about?


22 May 2014, 10:34:38
sphenodont wrote:Well, wise or not, I have let the cat out of the bag.

The question is whether your group is looking for a particular non-team player or not. If so, we should pool resources (assuming it is the same non-team player), and if not, we can still work to our mutual benefit.

Is there someone in particular you and your faction would like to preserve? I know you're likely unwilling to share the particular composition of your party, but if we can work alongside each other, we can save cutting each other into little pieces for the very end.

Personally, I'm okay with acting to save RaveBomb or Ryvvn. I don't care to save a wolf at this point, and Admetus seems spent. Between the two, I'd prefer to have Ryvvn around, if for no other reason than his analysis could be useful down the line. Of course, if your team is down a man, feel free to let me know if you'd prefer one of the others.


22 May 2014, 12:34:16
twdog wrote:I think almost everyone knew (or strongly suspected) that cat was in the bag, so that didn't seem like a bad post to me. I'm not going to say it publicly, but I think you're right about giving the wolves a reprieve for now.

I'd like to keep rictus around, and I'm willing to extend the same offer to you. I'll see what we can do about getting ryvvn back here, and I agree about passing on the others. Aside from the teams, I suspect there are multiple independent psychopaths and that one of them is a wolf. Your thoughts?

There is a particular unaligned player whose role makes him lean towards wild theories. Even more then me, so that's saying something. I suspect he's a threat to you too. Got any leads? We're willing to share our intel in return.
Last edited by sphenodont on 22 May 2014, 10:57:02, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Updated for latest correspondence.

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sphenodont <=> Admetus

Postby sphenodont » 22 May 2014, 09:40:45

22 May 2014, 11:40:11
sphenodont wrote:Apologies on your untimely death, and all that. It looks like we might be able to recall you, though, and at the very least, perhaps we might be able to have a bit of a chat before things head irretrieveably south?

I've (somewhat foolishly) spoken the fool's part in public, so I don't think it's worth hiding that there are factions at play, and given your targeting accuracy, it's fairly safe to say that you are not one of the nutjobs we've been trying to hunt.

If my suspcions are corrent (and I'm certain they are), you too had a pet wolf at play in the games. Would you mind sharing which one it was? I think it's safe to rule out Grey Wolf, err... dferrantino, for obvious reasons. I'm trying to figure out who the best recall candidate would be among the current crowd, so any intelligence you could provide is appreciated. Your analytical skills push you ahead of the others, but having a spent power makes you less valuable, you understand...


22 May 2014, 12:48:06
Admetus wrote:I thought communication wasn't allowed, but apparently it is.

I realize my vigilante strike post was rambling, but I was actually pretty explicit with what was and wasn't known and by whom. I won't force you to go look it up, let me summarize.

First, I don't see any reason to mistrust faction reveals. We have three Humans and one Wolf up for revive vote. There are no psychopaths, so no worries about reviving a psychopath.

I don't know the identity of the wolf-traitor. RaveBomb knows it, and he funneled the information about dferrantino and why I should be confident enough to shoot. In the vacation forum, RaveBomb has said he's still not giving up the name in public or semi-public, but he says he told a few confidants in private message. It will be difficult for this wolf-traitor to go back into full hiding. Eventually the humans will get a shot at him.

At the same time, I think there's little worry that the psychopath will wreck the wolf team. The humans are very far ahead right now. It's hard to imagine a scenario where the wolf-traitor achieves victory with 10 living humans and no living wolves. Any immediate wolf-traitor play to kill off more wolves would likely be seriously short-sighted.

As far as revival, I believe the humans don't need it right now, and rekard has threatened unforeseen consequences. The only worry I have is that the human-ish psychopaths group together with the wolf vote to revive Stigmata, wasting human time on a re-lynch.
Last edited by sphenodont on 22 May 2014, 10:54:00, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Updated for latest communication.

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sphenodont <=> RaveBomb

Postby sphenodont » 22 May 2014, 09:46:57

21 May 2014, 11:46:11
sphenodont wrote:If I'd been around yesterday, I would have at least made it sporting and kept them from lynching you like that.

Do you have any useful info that I might be able to use to help exact your revenge? I feel a strange kinship with your nation, and an oracle once told me that my descendents will inhabit a land where horses are made from plastic bricks...


21 May 2014, 14:05:42
RaveBomb wrote:
sphenodont wrote:If I'd been around yesterday, I would have at least made it sporting and kept them from lynching you like that.

Do you have any useful info that I might be able to use to help exact your revenge? I feel a strange kinship with your nation, and an oracle once told me that my descendents will inhabit a land where horses are made from plastic bricks...


Kill meta4 and all is good with the world.


22 May 2014, 11:45:24
sphenodont wrote:
RaveBomb wrote:Kill meta4 and all is good with the world.


Well, I wasn't sure about Meta4, but surely helping bag stigmata helps, right?

Is there any info that you could chip in that would help in the long-term? I have no allegiances to any of the dead, so my vote is up for grabs (well, except to stigmata, I suppose), but I've got to consider the greater good in casting my vote.


22 May 2014, 12:18:54
RaveBomb wrote:
sphenodont wrote:
RaveBomb wrote:Kill meta4 and all is good with the world.


Well, I wasn't sure about Meta4, but surely helping bag stigmata helps, right?

Is there any info that you could chip in that would help in the long-term? I have no allegiances to any of the dead, so my vote is up for grabs (well, except to stigmata, I suppose), but I've got to consider the greater good in casting my vote.


Here is the thing. It's starting to look like we've got a number of competing factions, one if which is the traditional wolves faction. As such, I'm pretty sure that the wolves are toast. However, I've looked at the win conditions again, and if this is true factional warfare, then you're as much of my target as the wolves are.


22 May 2014, 12:36:29
sphenodont wrote:Understood and agreed, and just as in traditional warfare, sometimes you make strategic alliances to beat back the ravening hordes. I'm not saying that we are playing Britain and Russia here, but perhaps we could be more America and Canada?

In the interest of fostering good-will (and since this is my last allowed PM for the day to you), I will share some information. We want to find the nutjob. It's not Zark, its not Simon. twdog is claiming to be part of a not-so-secret faction as well.

As I said in the day thread, the sooner we pool resources and kill the psychopath(s) (its possible that we started with two), the sooner we can get back to killing one another.
Last edited by sphenodont on 22 May 2014, 10:53:01, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Updated.

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sphenodont <=> That PJ

Postby sphenodont » 22 May 2014, 11:15:42

22 May 2014, 13:14:34
sphenodont wrote:
That PJ wrote:
sphenodont wrote:Friends, compatriots, and loathe as I am to include them, Dornishmen, I am going to propose something that is likely to be unpopular and may even get me killed

It certainly ought to.

Ignoring that you just openly admitted to being in a self-interested faction and are therefore in direct opposition to literally everyone not in that faction, some things just aren't done in a polite society. It just isn't dignified to go around ranting about conspiracies and talking about books turned into television which some people may not have seen yet (though they'd be first on my list of suspected psychopaths if that's true). These things are handled a certain way in civilized company.

One day I hope you'll understand that, sphenodont. Why don't you take a nice little vacation and see if that helps you think things through?


I'll be frank here and give you the benefit of the doubt. I actually wanted to reach out and seek your counsel earlier in the day to get your thoughts on the state of the empire, but got caught up in this bit of administrative tedium and th— But I dissemble. Forgive my rambling.

Anyway, bear in mind that I am suggesting we all band together and root out the psychopaths. We know they are out there and we know that they are likely a greater threat than this so-called Millionaires club. In fact, I know there is at least one very dangerous individual that must be eliminated, or rooting out all the wolves will be for naught. I do not see how you can argue against putting the wolf hunt on a temporary hold until we ensure the continued survival of all of us, unless you happen to be one of those enemies of the nation.

I don't bear you any ill-will, and would like to foster a good working relationship with you.


That PJ wrote:Well, if you're being frank, I can do you the same courtesy. We are behind closed doors, after all (until you report this to your fellows ;) )

Let me see if I can articulate my issue here.

I don't like the maneuver you just pulled in the day thread. It puts everyone in a very precarious position, as exemplified by the dead silence and refusal to vote. I kind of prefer the games where I don't have to watch the board like a hawk at EOD, so this is already kind of annoying. But let me explain the choice it forces on all of us (at least as I see it):
- If I claim to support your theory and be a member of an as yet unnamed party, I am admitting that I am not simply interested in killing wolves. If any part of your theory is wrong, this is a terrible thing for me. If your theory is right, it still puts me at significant risk to the psychopaths out there.
- If I claim your theory is bunk and ludicrous and I am not affiliated with another faction, you can appeal to anyone else in an alliance to lynch me, on account of obviously being a psychopath. With everyone already petrified into inaction, it's an appealing lynch.
- If I claim to be a wolf, I am signing my own death sentence. Either I am lying and those with insider wolf knowledge (via traitor or actually being a wolf) will suggest I die, or I am honest and going to die in the end when humans get around to acting like humans.

In no way am I making my situation better. It's actually a pretty brilliant tactical move on your part, and I applaud that--you are now dictating the pace of the game. But I still consider it a dick move.

So, I voted to lynch you. Because whatever I am, it is in my interests to have you eliminated, regardless of whether I agree with your theory and the course of action it suggests:
- If I am a wolf, you have suggested you have a path to insider information and should be eliminated. I might even get bonus human credit for going against someone claiming to want wolves to survive a while longer. And if you do have insider knowledge and don't want to kill wolves, it is a risk-free move.
- If I am in a secret faction, I now know you are the enemy and I must eliminate you. Making a vote on you might force out your allies. Assuming I have no other leads on psychopaths and I also want to keep wolves around for some nebulous victory conditions, you are still the best choice, because I know you are actively working against me.
- If I am not in a secret faction, then I definitely need to eliminate you, because you are actively working against me, regardless of whether I am a psychopath or standard human. You will find evidence to support your theory one way or another, and I don't want to be on the receiving end of it. As a not-wolf, I also have no idea what you can do, and that is rather threatening. So you should be lynched.

And all of this is just assuming that your basic statement is honest and not complete bullshit, which is not something I can take for granted.

And I know that was a ton of stuff, so... TL/DR: My best option right now is to remove you from the equation until a better option presents itself. Give me something useful to improve my position and maybe we can revisit the question.

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sphenodont <=> Rictus

Postby sphenodont » 22 May 2014, 11:57:13

22 May 2014, 13:35:35
Rictus wrote:Well, thanks, I guess. I've been poring over Day 2 votes to find the shenanigans... obviously the Blindsniper bandwagon was an attempt to protect Dferrantino and Stigmata. So there's gotta be a few wolves hiding in the Blindsniper votes. I got the charts filled in with the red and blue names... just need to start poking.

Then you invalidate all of that by claiming that we're facing off with a bunch of factions. Each with a wolf-ambassador. And you're in one of them.

"Lets protect the wolves until we know whats going on"... then you vote for me, which tells me you know I'm not a wolf. I'm totally confused but willing to listen. I'm not going to bother with analysis until I know what is going on.

I was expecting 6 wolves with 20 players... But the math doesn't make sense according to your implications. 6 wolves with 6 teams? I know there are non-faction humans, and neither of the killed wolves revealed a role, but obviously with a mole-wolf giving a name to Ravebomb -> Admetus there's something going on.

I realize we only get 2 PMs a day, but you've got my attention by claiming to be a human and trying to lynch a human.


22 May 2014, 14:12:13
sphenodont wrote:I will try to make the most of this PM, since as you said, we're quite limited.

Clearly, a number of people know (or suspect) who the wolves are, or else we wouldn't have killed two so quickly. I cannot imagine that things could be that simple: if the humans wanted to win, all they would have to do is quickly murder all the Millionaires and win by Day Three. There must be more to it. We know there are psychopaths among us, and I know there is at least one who cannot be allowed to make it to the end-game. We also know that some of the formal councilmembers are being dragged off to Purgatory before being allowed to return to us, and I worry that something is happening to them while they are absent.

I am being clear and forthright on this point: I think it is wisest to hunt the psychopaths first. Perhaps we can vote not to allow anyone to return from the Land Beyond, but that's not something people will agree on. So, I say we try to find the revolutionary (or -ies, if there are more than one).

I am taking a large chance that you are that anarchist, but someone vouched for you and requested that I remove my vote for you. If you know who they might be, talk to them and verify what I've said to them before we continue our conversation. It would be best that we trust each other (as much as we can afford to do that, obviously). If you have no idea who that might be, well sleep well knowing you have someone looking out for your continued survival.

Also, barring any conversion madness, there should be three wolves remaining.


22 May 2014, 16:49:06
Rictus wrote:"I am being clear and forthright on this point: I think it is wisest to hunt the psychopaths first."

You make sense, and I agree.

Let me share one cryptic comment with you, and see if you make the same intuitive leap that I got from your comments...

Seer result:
"Sphenodont is not the nutjob."

It may be that I've said too much, but I think we can work together. I do not know who has verified me, but I'm glad they did.
Last edited by sphenodont on 22 May 2014, 17:10:02, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: Updated with most recent conversation.

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Re: That's What (W)e Said!

Postby Ryvvn » 22 May 2014, 15:20:48

[+] Admetus
Day 1 Ryvvn 1 wrote:Sent: 20 May 2014, 01:07:08
From: Admetus
To: rekard Ryvvn 

Non-aggression pact for a couple days?

Re: Day 1 Ryvvn 1 wrote:Sent: 20 May 2014, 15:22:03
From: Ryvvn
To: Admetus rekard 

I must say I'm insulted by the obvious copy-paste offer you present here. While I do not necessarily accept, I had no outright plans to vote for you immediately anyway. As you were, sir.

Re: Day 1 Ryvvn 1 wrote:Sent: 20 May 2014, 20:39:43
From: Admetus
To: Ryvvn 

'S cool. As a first day death last game, you have little to fear from anyone.

But why does it bug you that I wanted to include you in a group that would be more likely to reach mid-game? Strange thing to take offense at.

[+] Okaros
Shaking hands and settling grievances wrote:Sent: 20 May 2014, 12:53:23
From: Ryvvn
To: rekard Okaros 

Hello dear Sir Okaros,

I would quite like to resubmit to you a truce of non-aggression, the likes of which we shared in this god-forsaken kingdom once before; and not at all like the copy-paste job Admetus appears to be offering.

(seriously, a simple one-liner with no thought at all!)

Should you to choose to graciously accept, I should remind you (as stated in day zero) I will be limited posting from my phone for most of this game (not by choice). However, I will surely endeavor to remain up to speed with each day's activities so as to make an informed post/vote.

Re: Shaking hands and settling grievances wrote:Sent: 20 May 2014, 13:19:05
From: Okaros
To: rekard Ryvvn 

I was thinking about suggesting something like this but figured I'd vote for someone else first as a sign of good faith and let you make the first move. Avoiding a repeat of last game's early days seems... prudent... for both of us.

Also, as a somewhat apology for stabbing you in the face last game you're my default choice for resurrection days should you wind up dying and flipping human.



Admetus sent me the same non-aggression offer, though he at least put a bit of effort into it for mine. I took him up on it because hey, why not?

I would say the same thing to him that I said to you: Non-aggression in these first couple of days is fine, anything more substantial or longer-term is contingent upon how human I think you are.

So... wrote:Sent: 21 May 2014, 18:10:21
From: Okaros
To: rekard Ryvvn 

this wagon setup reeks of manipulation. Any ideas wtf is going on?

Hellheart's bouncing around like a monkey on crack, which tilts him vaguely human-ish for me, but doesn't really explain wtf he thinks he's doing (I've got a PM out to him asking him about that). How does he read to you so far this game?

Re: So... wrote:Sent: 21 May 2014, 19:45:23
From: Ryvvn
To: rekard Okaros 

Honestly no idea on Hellheart, seems just standard early RP tomfoolery from him.

Sorry can't provide more of substance but I've been at work all day and remain through EoD, so I would need to reread the entire day thread more closely to notice any odd behavior; I may be able to provide more input tomorrow evening (grace be to early release from work).

As it is I have to log a replacement vote on the sparse attention I've been able to spare today....

[+] dferrantino
Message for you, sir! wrote:Sent: 21 May 2014, 11:19:57
From: dferrantino
To: rekard Ryvvn 

Code: Select all

ping 255.255.255.255


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