Night 2. Hide.

Being the most secretive for 5000 years and counting.
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Night 2. Hide.

Postby rekard » 20 May 2014, 18:23:36

Hellheart is not the nutjob.

You let Rave die. Hopefully you can revive him!

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Re: Night 2. Hide.

Postby Okaros » 20 May 2014, 18:49:31

Posted my working draft of the PM to Hellheart. Going to sit on that for a while in order to fake taking the time to write it. Commentary is welcome. :)

(I did change my mind again and declare that I'm human for parity purposes. Slightly less of a gamble that way, I think.)

How strongly do we want to push for reviving Rave over Admetus? Or do we want to pass on the attempt and move immediately to converting someone?
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Re: Night 2. Hide.

Postby Rictus » 20 May 2014, 19:19:10

Well, Rave should weigh in with his thoughts.

We got burned since Admetus is a Vig. Why wouldn't a human want to revive a Vig? :(
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Re: Night 2. Hide.

Postby Okaros » 20 May 2014, 19:26:17

Rictus wrote:Well, Rave should weigh in with his thoughts.

We got burned since Admetus is a Vig. Why wouldn't a human want to revive a Vig? :(


If he fires before EOD, it's really just a choice between two reviving two "normal" humans. :)
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Re: Night 2. Hide.

Postby Okaros » 21 May 2014, 06:03:26

Yeah, time to give up on my dream of pulling a Fake Seer this game. As fun as it might be, I think it's for the best overall.
(plus, it's one less thing to worry about keeping track of)
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Re: Night 2. Hide.

Postby Okaros » 21 May 2014, 06:24:15

It occurs to me that we for any resurrection day we could potentially scuttle it by voting "no resurrection" alongside the wolves. Since the votes are private, the worst case would be

I don't think we should do so here, as Admetus isn't particularly a threat to us I think, but something to keep in mind for future resurrection days.



Oh! There's an interesting idea. One possible way of dumping a sort-of wolf list to a normal human: Someone can have a power that lets them see who voted for what in the resurrection votes. If the wolves vote "no resurrection" like I suspect they will, one of us could probably fake it nicely. "no resurrection" wouldn't automatically mean wolf... but it most likely means wolf or psychopath.


In other news, do we even want to try and use our seer power on humans anymore? It's useful for verifying that someone *isn't* the nutjob, but I'm not sure role results are actually all that useful to us. I'm thinking the nutjob probably *isn't* a wolf, so we could potentially seer the wolves and see if one of them is hiding something?
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Re: Night 2. Hide.

Postby RaveBomb » 21 May 2014, 07:16:32

At the moment, if I have to go, then I gotta go. I have no special powers or abilities.

Should I PM Admetus with the name of a wolf?
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Re: Night 2. Hide.

Postby Okaros » 21 May 2014, 07:29:59

RaveBomb wrote:At the moment, if I have to go, then I gotta go. I have no special powers or abilities.

Should I PM Admetus with the name of a wolf?


Not a terrible idea, as getting a wolf dead today/tomorrow would help even the scales a bit. Are you thinking just a last minute "xxx is a wolf" before you croak, with no explanation?

Who's name to give? Meta4 doesn't make sense, as you'd almost certainly be voting for him in revenge already if you "knew" that he was a wolf. :)

dferr or stig, perhaps?


In other news, it's currently looking like Furin for the maul tonight, with Ryvvn as a backup. I've added Zark to the list of possible targets as well, with the reasoning that we should make the resurrection vote as painful for the humans as possible in order to split the votes. Admetus/Rave/Furin/<lynchvictim> should work nicely.



We should also start thinking about conversion targets to replace Rave, as that could influence the wolf name we drop if we want to convert a wolf.


Now off to go update the gossip thread.
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Re: Night 2. Hide.

Postby RaveBomb » 21 May 2014, 09:05:04

I'll give Admetus dfer's name I think. And I'll do it sooner rather then later.

dfer has PMed me with a ping.

I'm tempted to reply with something like "Host name not found, wolf"
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Re: Night 2. Hide.

Postby Okaros » 21 May 2014, 09:05:12

Whoah. MEM just pushed Meta4 to two, which means the current 3-way tie for the lynch contains two wolves.

If there's another mole in the wolves, he's at the top of my suspect list now.


The rest of you may want to take advantage of this if you reasonably can. :)

If we can keep them in the running for the lynch that's awesome.
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Re: Night 2. Hide.

Postby Okaros » 21 May 2014, 09:17:07

Hahah, that's beautiful Rave. 4 potential wagons, 3 of them wolves.

Everyone please resist the urge to push MEM though. Having 3 wolves pushed is going to make them suspicious. All wolves but me getting pushed? That's... not going to look good for me. :lol:
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Re: Night 2. Hide.

Postby RaveBomb » 21 May 2014, 09:19:21

Holy crap, did EVERYONE just vote on a wolf? :lol:

I have a sudden suspicion that there are some more leaks on the wolf board.

Let's see if this tracks, 20 players
5 wolves
4 people per team... 5 teams = 20 players, each with one wolf spy?

EDIT:
Eh, maybe not, we got some hot wolf on wolf action going on.
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Re: Night 2. Hide.

Postby Okaros » 21 May 2014, 09:24:15

I'm moving my vote later, MEM is just a placeholder for me atm. I very much want him to *not* be one of the wagons today.

Edit: Updated the Gossip thread with the current wolf discussion. Pretty sure dferr suspects shenanigans.

Edit2: And twdog has likely just ensured that at least one wagon is a wolf tonight. Although.... how in the world does he think PJ is a "confirmed" human? Is that a slip of some kind?

Edit3: and twdog retracts, citing a misreading of things. Hmmm...
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Re: Night 2. Hide.

Postby Okaros » 21 May 2014, 09:51:37

20 people
5 Wolves
4 secret teams of 3 humans + 1 wolf
4 psychopaths + 1 wolf psychopath

I'm really starting to think we might be looking at this setup.

I could see rekard setting up a secret "spy vs. spy" game with the wolves being deliberately set up to fail and the real contest being between the various "secret" teams (hence the conversion to replace a lost member, since all the wolves are almost guaranteed to die in that scenario).

The conspiracy theorist is one of the psychopaths and is how the whole secret faction thing gets tipped off to others eventually (if nobody outs themselves first).
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Re: Night 2. Hide.

Postby Rictus » 21 May 2014, 10:09:54

RaveBomb wrote:I'll give Admetus dfer's name I think. And I'll do it sooner rather then later.

dfer has PMed me with a ping.

I'm tempted to reply with something like "Host name not found, wolf"


Don't know about part 2, but for sure give Admetus a name. You're confirmed human, he's confirmed human, it's awesome.
-------------------------------------------

I find it worrying that nobody has bothered to comment on this in the opening post:

rekard's opening post Day 2 wrote:Hmm. I can't unmake these papers, but maybe these so called millionaires are just a ruse.
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Re: Night 2. Hide.

Postby Okaros » 21 May 2014, 10:28:39

Rictus wrote:I find it worrying that nobody has bothered to comment on this in the opening post:

rekard's opening post Day 2 wrote:Hmm. I can't unmake these papers, but maybe these so called millionaires are just a ruse.


Yeah. That's one of the reasons why I think we're staring at a multi-team game with the wolves as the sacrificial front-men.


A multi-team competition game makes our seer power a lot more sane/useful. If we're the only secret team, there's not much point to seering people, as we don't really care that much about the powers the humans have.

If the humans are on their own secret teams though, then we absolutely care what powers they have so that we can maul them.


So, with that in mind, we should probably seer middle-value wolf targets. I.e. People I can reasonably make a maul argument for that aren't at the tippy-top of the threat list. My suggestion?
Seer: sphenodont



Edit: And hmmm... if Admetus is on a secret team, he'll already know who the wolves are. All Rave giving him a name will do is tell his team the wolf that *isn't* on Rave's team... (assuming they know/assume there are other secret teams, anyway).

Yeah, definitely glad I didn't go ahead with trying to Fake Seer Hellheart. Thanks for talking me down, Rictus.
Last edited by Okaros on 21 May 2014, 10:32:25, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Night 2. Hide.

Postby Aldax » 21 May 2014, 10:32:04

RaveBomb wrote:

dfer has PMed me with a ping.




He pinged me too, I'll play along
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Re: Night 2. Hide.

Postby rekard » 21 May 2014, 10:39:34

This phrase :

Hmm. I can't unmake these papers, but maybe these so called millionaires are just a ruse.

It was just flavor text. It was a reference as to why Admetus was so easily expelled with "valid" papers in the world's logic. It was more a question of the legality of the documents. The only information given were the roles and day status. Everything else is fluff unless I say otherwise.

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Re: Night 2. Hide.

Postby Okaros » 21 May 2014, 10:54:49

Getting a wolf vigged by Admetus today would be hilariously awesome, but might trigger a descent into full-on paranoia by all the surviving wolves. That's an awful lot of coincidences...


I think I may PM dferr about feeling suspicious about MEM's voting behavior.

Edit: No, I'll wait until further discussion happens. I've waited too long and the timing would look a little weird.
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Re: Night 2. Hide.

Postby Okaros » 21 May 2014, 11:54:00

Okay. Assuming Rave gives Admetus a name and Admetus immediately shoots that person...

One of the three wagons (currently dferr, meta4, or stig) is probably best, as it would potentially cause a human wagon to replace that person and make the wolves less suspicious/riled up.

dferr would probably be perfect (assuming we don't want to try and convert him), but if Admetus talks to him before pulling the trigger it could be especially problematic since he's around/active more than the other two are.

Maybe a gamble worth taking, though?
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Re: Night 2. Hide.

Postby RaveBomb » 21 May 2014, 12:12:28

Admetus is looking for confirmation on dfer. I tried to give it to him.

I replied to dfer's ping with a link to the xkcd comic's that dealt with the Heartbleed bug. If that doesn't throw them into a tizzy, nothing will. :lol: :flail:
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Re: Night 2. Hide.

Postby Okaros » 21 May 2014, 12:20:05

RaveBomb wrote:I replied to dfer's ping with a link to the xkcd comic's that dealt with the Heartbleed bug. If that doesn't throw them into a tizzy, nothing will. :lol: :flail:


Oh that's cruel, Rave. Bravo. :lol:

Edit: Btw, MEM has tried to handwave his vote on meta4 as "Oops, I didn't know meta4 was on our team". :flail: :lol:
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Re: Night 2. Hide.

Postby Aldax » 21 May 2014, 12:44:28

Responded to dferr's PM and he says he's looking for friends, I'll probably take the bait and ask if he's made contact with anyone else. If my assumptions are correct he will proceed to tell the wolves I fell for it and can be an expendable ally when the time comes and they need to save another wolf. That will, at least for now, make me a hard to maul target.



Or maybe it will all go to shit and I'll end up mauled :flail: . Thoughts?


(In the meantime I'll vote for blindsniper, citing being one of the voters for Rave)
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Re: Night 2. Hide.

Postby RaveBomb » 21 May 2014, 12:48:43

Okaros wrote:
RaveBomb wrote:I replied to dfer's ping with a link to the xkcd comic's that dealt with the Heartbleed bug. If that doesn't throw them into a tizzy, nothing will. :lol: :flail:


Oh that's cruel, Rave. Bravo. :lol:

Edit: Btw, MEM has tried to handwave his vote on meta4 as "Oops, I didn't know meta4 was on our team". :flail: :lol:


I think he missed it. He replied with http://xkcd.com/936/

I ended it with "http://xkcd.com/1134/ Sit. Stay."
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Re: Night 2. Hide.

Postby Aldax » 21 May 2014, 13:11:57

Illustrious GM, can we quote PM's on here?
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Re: Night 2. Hide.

Postby Okaros » 21 May 2014, 13:32:17

Aldax wrote:Illustrious GM, can we quote PM's on here?


Illustrious GM is going to be away for another 1.5 hours or so, per his post in the day thread. If it's important, paraphrase maybe until you get an answer?
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Re: Night 2. Hide.

Postby RaveBomb » 21 May 2014, 13:49:42

Ok... Adamatus wants the name of the wolf-traitor that I got dfer's name from in exchange for his vig shot. We ran out of PMs, so I agreed in the main thread.

I think that Meta4 looks very traitorous, yes?
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Re: Night 2. Hide.

Postby Okaros » 21 May 2014, 13:56:03

RaveBomb wrote:Ok... Adamatus wants the name of the wolf-traitor that I got dfer's name from in exchange for his vig shot. We ran out of PMs, so I agreed in the main thread.

I think that Meta4 looks very traitorous, yes?


Yeah. Direct suspicion isn't on Meta4 in wolf-land atm (he's the "victim" of MEM's screwup, after all), but that might make it all the better if/when Admetus leaks it.


Edit:

What I mean is, if Admetus gives out Meta4's name and it makes it back to the wolves, one of three thoughts immediately arise:
1) It's true. Meta4 leaked wolf info out of spite/revenge for MEM's screwup.
2) It's true. Meta4 leaked deliberately before-hand, maybe MEM knew somehow and "screwed up" deliberately?
3) It's false. Someone is lying. Most likely suspect? MEM, trying to justify his "mistake".
Last edited by Okaros on 21 May 2014, 13:57:44, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Night 2. Hide.

Postby Aldax » 21 May 2014, 13:57:00

Yeah, I'll do that.


Long story short I'll send my second PM to dferr saying that while I don't trust him yet I won't vote for him because he was unrelated to the Rave bandwagon (citing that a bandwagon on Day 1 is very suspicious) I'll ask him if he has any more friends I could get in contact with in order to form an alliance.


EDIT: Rave you're the evilest horse I've seen :lol:
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Re: Night 2. Hide.

Postby Okaros » 21 May 2014, 14:00:09

The volume of shenanigans going on today is coming close to satisfying me for the rest of the game. If my treachery is revealed and I die soon after this, it'll have been worth it I think. :lol:
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Re: Night 2. Hide.

Postby Aldax » 21 May 2014, 14:09:12

I just *can't* wait until the (Rave)bomb is dropped and shit hits the fan everywhere. Please DO keep us posted from the wolf board after the shenanigans happen :lol:

Edited because I can't into sentences today
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Re: Night 2. Hide.

Postby Okaros » 21 May 2014, 14:10:00

Aldax wrote:I just *can't* wait until the (Rave)bomb is dropped and shit hits the fan everywhere. Please DO keep us posted from the wolf board :lol:


I'm keeping the Gossip thread updated whenever people post. It's very quiet over there, though.
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Re: Night 2. Hide.

Postby Okaros » 21 May 2014, 14:33:20

Speaking of gossip thread updates, some minor additions to it.

Dferr's still freaking out over the "3 wolves up for lynch" part, but nobody's speculating about the cause just yet.


I think I'll reach out to Hellheart and start questioning the current wagon setup and spinning some of the analytical work he usually expects to see out of my around now.
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Re: Night 2. Hide.

Postby Aldax » 21 May 2014, 14:37:42

I was going to try to defend myself from the (hasty) wolf accusations made by Rictus, but I'll hold it for now

EDIT: I'm also redacting my vote for blindsniper, let me know of it screws up some plan, Okaros
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Re: Night 2. Hide.

Postby Okaros » 21 May 2014, 14:42:44

Aldax wrote:EDIT: I'm also redacting my vote for blindsniper, let me know of it screws up some plan, Okaros


No, not at all.


Edit:
PM sent, it's essentially a "WTF? This whole wagon setup reeks. Want to trade reads/thoughts?" sort of thing.

Edit2:
Also PM'd Ryvvn with a similar "Wtf? This reeks!" message, asking him what his thoughts on Hellheart's behavior were.
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Re: Night 2. Hide.

Postby rekard » 21 May 2014, 15:14:33

You can quote PMs on your faction board.

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Re: Night 2. Hide.

Postby Rictus » 21 May 2014, 15:16:37

Aldax wrote:I was going to try to defend myself from the (hasty) wolf accusations made by Rictus, but I'll hold it for now

EDIT: I'm also redacting my vote for blindsniper, let me know of it screws up some plan, Okaros

That is straight up human-rictus play. I see wolves everywhere.

I wouldn't worry about it. In a couple of days I'm going to go back and analyze this day and find out who the wolves were trying to protect. So I'll focus on the other three lynch leaders and see if one or two are wolves. :)
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Re: Night 2. Hide.

Postby Okaros » 21 May 2014, 15:34:01

Oh, not sure if I mentioned it earlier: 3 wolves mauling Furin now, so he's pretty much locked in. Conditionals are Zark->Ryvvn, who stand a decent chance of being next on the list for tomorrow, likely followed by Admetus/RaveBomb post-resurrection.
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Re: Night 2. Hide.

Postby Okaros » 21 May 2014, 16:21:45

And........ Admetus has posted about the rogue wolf in the day thread.

No immediate reaction from the wolves.

I think I'll go into lockdown mode on the wolf forums.

Something along the lines of:

"Taking my discussions to private PMs with each of you. It's not that I don't trust any of you... it's just that I don't trust any of you."


Edit: Shit. I half expect there to be a PM-listener, so that plan just winds up revealing me as a wolf to whoever has that role. Hmmmmm.

Rave, just how much info did you give Admetus? Just dferr, or dferr+meta4?
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Re: Night 2. Hide.

Postby Okaros » 21 May 2014, 17:35:59

Drafting my wolf post:

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Okay.

Either we have a traitor or someone's doing a damn good job of impersonating one. If they've already dumped our entire roster minus themselves to the humans there isn't much we can do about it. With PMs in play, we can't stop that information from getting out, and if they're truly a lone wolf we're screwed. I think Admetus would have come out with that information if he'd been given it, so my guess is that he was only given dferr's name.

I think it's more likely that we have a psychopath with some sort of hidden agenda and they needed dferrantino dead for a private win condition. Anyone want to come forward and negotiate? Maybe we can work out something where all of us win? Because as it stands we're just going to kill each other until none of us are left, at which point the humans win.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-


Edit: Regarding conversion, I think we should convert one of the wolves, either MEM or stigmata/Meta depending on who's alive/immune. We'll be able to betray the third wolf at that point and have complete control of the maul and no more wolf-on-wolf backstabbery.
Last edited by Okaros on 21 May 2014, 17:40:47, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Night 2. Hide.

Postby rekard » 21 May 2014, 17:40:41

Heads up. Unless your team wolf dies, you can't convert another wolf.

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Re: Night 2. Hide.

Postby Okaros » 21 May 2014, 17:41:47

rekard wrote:Heads up. Unless your team wolf dies, you can't convert another wolf.


Boooo, hisss! :P

Well fine then.


Rave, what do you think about making a last-minute snipe post with your supposed wolfy source?
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Re: Night 2. Hide.

Postby RaveBomb » 21 May 2014, 17:47:10

Sure. 15 minutes and I'll just name drop Meta4 with no other explanation.
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Re: Night 2. Hide.

Postby Okaros » 21 May 2014, 17:48:46

RaveBomb wrote:Sure. 15 minutes and I'll just name drop Meta4 with no other explanation.


Do you want to switch your vote to him then too? He wouldn't be able to speak in his own defense via wolf-chat if he gets lynched, after all...
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Re: Night 2. Hide.

Postby rekard » 21 May 2014, 17:51:42

I don't know if you guys understood your correct winning conditions but you all lose if wolves all die. Just clarifying in case it was not clear.

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Re: Night 2. Hide.

Postby Okaros » 21 May 2014, 17:53:41

rekard wrote:I don't know if you guys understood your correct winning conditions but you all lose if wolves all die. Just clarifying in case it was not clear.


I'm not planning on going anywhere just yet! :)



More generally: Bloodbath on the wolves needs to stop for several days after this. Random chance/tells could still reveal one or more of us before we're done.
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Re: Night 2. Hide.

Postby Rictus » 21 May 2014, 17:57:55

What are "psychopaths"? I'm not familiar with that term in the game.

Sociopath is a single player who is trying to be last man standing, right?

Are WE the psychopaths ?
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Re: Night 2. Hide.

Postby Okaros » 21 May 2014, 17:59:28

Rictus wrote:What are "psychopaths"? I'm not familiar with that term in the game.

Sociopath is a single player who is trying to be last man standing, right?

Are WE the psychopaths ?


That's an interesting thought.

I'd been working from the assumption that "psychopaths" just meant "sociopaths that want us all dead, working separately".

But here we want everyone else dead, and aren't strictly-speaking wolves or humans...

:shock:
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Re: Night 2. Hide.

Postby Okaros » 21 May 2014, 18:00:30

Aww, Rave missed it.
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Re: Night 2. Hide.

Postby RaveBomb » 21 May 2014, 18:11:21

Sorry wife aggro. ARGH.

And... I'm out.
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