Night 8. Surprisingly Close.

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Night 8. Surprisingly Close.

Postby rekard » 28 May 2014, 18:39:04

Keep going and win.

There is 0% chance of two teams reaching parity simultaneously. So choose wisely.

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Re: Night 8. Surprisingly Close.

Postby 7-zark-7 » 29 May 2014, 05:10:10

Putting this here for discussion: I asked our lovely and talented GM about ties:

Subject: Night 7. Nightly Terrors.

rekard wrote:Game is designed so that doesn't happen. Either way, if you reach your win conditions. You win. That's what you have as a priority.
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Re: Night 8. Surprisingly Close.

Postby 7-zark-7 » 29 May 2014, 07:29:29

So My PM's are getting interesting. Rictus and Okaros both advocate lynching Furin, & then are discussing how to split up the following day.

Wondering if your comms are silent or if you've got similar traffic. As discussed earlier, if either of us was converted, we've pretty much already lost this, so I'm trusting you as there is no win condition for me without you.

The full email from Rictus:

Rictus wrote:So I know you've been working with Okaros and the Sekrit Spies. Okaros dropped some notes in the Spies forum that you guys have a deal in the works. And you've been lining up the lynches for the last two days as well.

Here's my problem:

a) Currently, Okaros can win as a wolf or as a member of Sekrit Spies.

b) FurinMirado is the nutjob. He can win with Okaros. Below is an early email sent to the Okaros back on Day 5 (and posted to our spies forum):

FM from limbo wrote:Oh yes. WE can win this.

I'm going for broke here. I'm a sociopath. I win if the special secret teams don't win. In other words I win if you die or reach parity. So if I get revived we can ally. We will both win if the last people alive are you and me.

To help us do this I have access to quite a bit of information. For example, the Nightis Darksiders converted ThatPJ sometime during Days 1 through 4. He actually started out with the Vampirian Mirrorless. I believe the Nightis Darksiders are poised to win this in a few days.

That's just one example, I have a lot more pieces of the puzzle. We can gradually whittle down each group so that none can win before we end this, just you and me. BFFs.

I wish we could have allied sooner but I had no way of contacting any of your brethren. I didn't even suspect MEM that strongly until I was mauled right after I voted for him. That was a big clue.

Vote to revive me, we'll let these suckers annihilate each other and then stroll into the vault together. What do you say?


So a + b = huge problem for the rest of Sekrit Spies. FM/Okaros in the final 3 (with *anyone else*) = 2 personal wins.

It's also a problem for the Vampires. On night 6, someone from the Sekrit Spies were converted. Now there are only 2 Sekrit Spies. But as long as FM is voting with Okaros, that gives the Spies the leverage to simply vote out the Vampires, one at a time. And if Okaros gets a maul, then the vampires are finished even faster.

So I propose we lynch FurinMirado, and that leaves Vamipres and Spies at 2 each, plus 1 more player in a third faction (NOT a psychopath).


Whats' in it for you? You get a chance to set up your end game. As long as FM is alive, the factions *can't* win. The ONLY person who can win with FM alive is the wolf. And with Okaros and the Sekrit Spies protecting FM, he's going to be hard to lynch. I'm offering you a way to pierce the 4 person voting block of Okaros/Rictus/Aldax + FurinMirado.


What do I get out of this? A little bit of security. Like I said, the Sekrit Spies were 3 but are now 2... otherwise we would have won by now with parity. Either Okaros, Aldax or myself have been flipped away from the team. It doesn't matter which one has been flipped, the important part is that if FM dies, Okaros must win as a member of Sekrit Spies. For any Spy combination of Okaros/Aldax/Rictus, I'm safer when FM is dead.

One final comment: We can't kill Okaros yet, because no one faction will have parity. Once FM is dead, the puzzle of how to kill Okaros will be next. I can't promise to work with you to kill Okaros, since he might still be on my team. I've got to check on that tonight. But for tonight, at least, I think we should work together.


More in a bit,

7z7
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Re: Night 8. Surprisingly Close.

Postby twdog » 29 May 2014, 08:13:41

I got that PM too, although I didn't post it here because I saw you were a recipient

--

It's common in team games for teams to honestly cooperate for a time, with the understanding that all alliances are void in the end game. Even wolves and humans might cooperate for a time in certain game configurations. However, we're now in that end game phase, so I'm not nearly as willing to play ball with them.

One thing that strikes me, is that rictus' claims that okaros can win as a wolf. I was worried that dfer might have been able to win with either the vampires or the wolves, and I popped off a few PMs to rekard about whether he could do that. I PM'd because obviously if I'm suspicious of a teammate's win condition I'm not going to ask the GM about it publicly.

Anyway, here's my exchange:

rekard wrote:
twdog wrote:dfer counts as a wolf for parity, so does that mean a human or vampire victory requires dfer's death? Also, could dfer win with the wolf team? In other words, if the "pure" wolves + dfer achieve parity, is it a win or a loss for him personally?


Dfer loses or wins with Vampiria. That's why I said he's aligned with you. For human-wolf parity coubts, he is a wolf, but he also counts as a Vampirian.


This was back when we thought that dfer was the only mole. Also, I'm running on the hypothesis that dfer and okaros have the same win condition setup.

So the way I interpreted it, was that hypothetically if dfer had been the last wolf and we had achieved parity, then it would have counted as a win for us, and not for the wolves. This is assuming rekard wasn't being "creative" with the truth, given that we didn't understand that this was a team game. I had noticed that our group was configured like a team instead of a typical conversion faction, but I just assumed that was because rekard felt a secret conversion faction would be overpowered.

So where I'm going with this, is that I'm not sure I really believe rictus' fears about "Okaros can win as a wolf or as a member of Sekrit Spies." Maybe Furin think that, but I'm not sure if that's really true. I suppose it's possible that, assuming it's true, the "someone from the Sekrit Spies [was] converted" is actually rictus himself.

I'm wondering if it'd be at all possible for us to lynch a Sekrit Spy. Maybe aldax? Perhaps loop in FM to give us 3 votes? It's a risky move, to put it mildly, but the spies are in a dominate position and are just using us. Assuming that the lynch doesn't finish the game, then it's a given that one of us will get mauled.

Your thoughts?
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Re: Night 8. Surprisingly Close.

Postby 7-zark-7 » 29 May 2014, 09:06:51

twdog wrote:I'm wondering if it'd be at all possible for us to lynch a Sekrit Spy. Maybe aldax? Perhaps loop in FM to give us 3 votes? It's a risky move, to put it mildly, but the spies are in a dominate position and are just using us. Assuming that the lynch doesn't finish the game, then it's a given that one of us will get mauled.

Your thoughts?


Here's the other email from Okaros:

Okaros wrote:((
So, I may have fibbed slightly. That 2v2 mutual win I was offering?

Actually more of a 1v1 thing, seeing as how the traitor in the Sikrit ranks is, well, me. 8-)

But since I'm sure you got the same warning we did this morning that there's 0% chance of sharing a victory I think you've probably grasped the implications as much as I have:

You have a traitor in Vampirian.

Or, well, I think it's more likely that you already knew that since *you're* likely the traitor, but whether you're actually loyal or not is moot. You and I have a working relationship and twdog and I do not, so I'd like to see you sitting at least at the final table tomorrow. To that end:

Please lynch either twdog (ideal) or Furin today. I'll take care of my "team's" extra person with the maul tonight and we can have a nice, happy 1v1v1v1 dance tomorrow with your participation assured.
))


I view Okaros's mention of a second conversion as an obvious divide and conquer, but all cards on the table, this is a card, & should be on the table.

I haven't been converted.

More in a bit,

7z7
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"The possibility that it's Zark simply murdering someone at a whim each day... would be delightful if true, but I worry that that's too simple a solution." - Okaros

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Re: Night 8. Surprisingly Close.

Postby twdog » 29 May 2014, 09:35:54

7-zark-7 wrote:Here's the other email from Okaros:
Okaros wrote: ... giant pile of bullshit ...



Anyway, I feel like our only chance here is to loop furin in on lynching aldax or rictus. If he doesn't want in on that, then I'm not sure what we can do here. To me, lynching furin is just handing them victory.

Tbh, I'm seriously tempted to try to lynch okaros just spoil his victory. We lose, but so does his team, and so does almost everyone else for that matter.

---

7-zark-7 wrote:I haven't been converted


Maybe you have, and maybe you haven't. However, like we said we should assume we're both vampirian, because if one of us is converted the game's lost anyway.
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Re: Night 8. Surprisingly Close.

Postby 7-zark-7 » 29 May 2014, 09:59:10

twdog wrote:Tbh, I'm seriously tempted to try to lynch okaros just spoil his victory. We lose, but so does his team, and so does almost everyone else for that matter.


I could actually get behind this, but need to think a bit more. Only person who would end-game benefit is a vanilla human if the lone wolf passes, but although we'd loose, we'd loose as masters of our fate. Pyrrhic victory^h^h^h ims??

More in a bit,

7z7
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Re: Night 8. Surprisingly Close.

Postby 7-zark-7 » 29 May 2014, 10:36:46

thinking about posting the following:

If you were any kind of real Keeper, you would have won by now.

You know, I'm getting a little tired of this guy's constant color commentary. He complains that my dungeon is damp, then he wants to install carpets. Let's skip entirely over the damp carpet problem, the next issue is that my dungeon is on an incline, and that angry minions cannot play marbles.

Image

Angry minons are no good at marbles. They fuss, they fret, and they threaten to rip your arms out if they lose. Loaded into a slingshot, they may prove powerful in their own right, but you're changing the subject.

I feel like the subject has been changed too many times of late. Starting with a recent PM:

Okaros wrote:((
So, I may have fibbed slightly. That 2v2 mutual win I was offering?

Actually more of a 1v1 thing, seeing as how the traitor in the Sikrit ranks is, well, me. 8-)


Oh wait - was that out loud? What else is new?

rekard wrote:News report of Nightis foreigners fleeing the country in a hurried fashion. There is silence from the House but one thing is certain. If there were people of the House of Nightis, there are none anymore.


Hmm. So in a conversion game, one of the houses dropped out of sight silently. And Okaros changes the deal. This does not bode well.

http://video.adultswim.com/robot-chicke ... -time.html

More in a bit,

7z7

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"The possibility that it's Zark simply murdering someone at a whim each day... would be delightful if true, but I worry that that's too simple a solution." - Okaros

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Re: Night 8. Surprisingly Close.

Postby 7-zark-7 » 29 May 2014, 13:46:17

Just sent:
7-zark-7 wrote:Subject: Day 8. Rebels everywhere.

Okaros wrote:I'm more interested in who provided the cookies. One does not maintain an inherited candy empire by allowing competitors to provide sugary confections at important events like this!


twdog, you've been quiet all this time. Can you explain the presence of these cookies?


Asking if I'm willing to move on twdog is one thing. Making a move is another. I don't think he's compromised, but we can deal with that tomorrow if so.

You suggested Furin or TW - I can only get behind the former on this occasion.

Your call,

7z7
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Re: Night 8. Surprisingly Close.

Postby twdog » 29 May 2014, 14:24:17

Have you PM'd furin? If not, I'll go ahead and do that
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Re: Night 8. Surprisingly Close.

Postby 7-zark-7 » 29 May 2014, 15:45:08

PM to furin is out:

FYI - attached letters from Okaros & Rictus indicate that they're not feeling too firm in any alliance with you at this time.

latest from Okaros is:

Okaros wrote:(( *hattip* A crafty attempt to pull Furin's vote away. I wonder if he'll take the bait?

A shift to Furin would not be completely unsupported in Sikrit, but I can't promise anything. The past several days have shown the flakiness of my allies when it comes to EOD sniping I think. ))


Prior emails below:

Now, we're not formally aligned, but I did help bring you back on the grounds of helping this thing go the right way. If that's not a victory for me & mine, at least it's not a wolf victory. Care to join us on the wolf Okaros

More in a bit,

7z7

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Day 7: A Modest Proposal
Date: 29 May 2014, 08:37
From: Okaros
To: rekard, 7-zark-7

Okaros wrote:((
So, I may have fibbed slightly. That 2v2 mutual win I was offering?

Actually more of a 1v1 thing, seeing as how the traitor in the Sikrit ranks is, well, me. 8-)

But since I'm sure you got the same warning we did this morning that there's 0% chance of sharing a victory I think you've probably grasped the implications as much as I have:

You have a traitor in Vampirian.

Or, well, I think it's more likely that you already knew that since *you're* likely the traitor, but whether you're actually loyal or not is moot. You and I have a working relationship and twdog and I do not, so I'd like to see you sitting at least at the final table tomorrow. To that end:

Please lynch either twdog (ideal) or Furin today. I'll take care of my "team's" extra person with the maul tonight and we can have a nice, happy 1v1v1v1 dance tomorrow with your participation assured.
))


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: How do you plan to win?
Date: 29 May 2014, 08:20
From: Rictus
To: twdog, rekard, 7-zark-7

Rictus wrote:So I know you've been working with Okaros and the Sekrit Spies. Okaros dropped some notes in the Spies forum that you guys have a deal in the works. And you've been lining up the lynches for the last two days as well.

Here's my problem:

a) Currently, Okaros can win as a wolf or as a member of Sekrit Spies.

b) FurinMirado is the nutjob. He can win with Okaros. Below is an early email sent to the Okaros back on Day 5 (and posted to our spies forum):

FM from limbo wrote:Oh yes. WE can win this.

I'm going for broke here. I'm a sociopath. I win if the special secret teams don't win. In other words I win if you die or reach parity. So if I get revived we can ally. We will both win if the last people alive are you and me.

To help us do this I have access to quite a bit of information. For example, the Nightis Darksiders converted ThatPJ sometime during Days 1 through 4. He actually started out with the Vampirian Mirrorless. I believe the Nightis Darksiders are poised to win this in a few days.

That's just one example, I have a lot more pieces of the puzzle. We can gradually whittle down each group so that none can win before we end this, just you and me. BFFs.

I wish we could have allied sooner but I had no way of contacting any of your brethren. I didn't even suspect MEM that strongly until I was mauled right after I voted for him. That was a big clue.

Vote to revive me, we'll let these suckers annihilate each other and then stroll into the vault together. What do you say?


So a + b = huge problem for the rest of Sekrit Spies. FM/Okaros in the final 3 (with *anyone else*) = 2 personal wins.

It's also a problem for the Vampires. On night 6, someone from the Sekrit Spies were converted. Now there are only 2 Sekrit Spies. But as long as FM is voting with Okaros, that gives the Spies the leverage to simply vote out the Vampires, one at a time. And if Okaros gets a maul, then the vampires are finished even faster.

So I propose we lynch FurinMirado, and that leaves Vamipres and Spies at 2 each, plus 1 more player in a third faction (NOT a psychopath).


Whats' in it for you? You get a chance to set up your end game. As long as FM is alive, the factions *can't* win. The ONLY person who can win with FM alive is the wolf. And with Okaros and the Sekrit Spies protecting FM, he's going to be hard to lynch. I'm offering you a way to pierce the 4 person voting block of Okaros/Rictus/Aldax + FurinMirado.


What do I get out of this? A little bit of security. Like I said, the Sekrit Spies were 3 but are now 2... otherwise we would have won by now with parity. Either Okaros, Aldax or myself have been flipped away from the team. It doesn't matter which one has been flipped, the important part is that if FM dies, Okaros must win as a member of Sekrit Spies. For any Spy combination of Okaros/Aldax/Rictus, I'm safer when FM is dead.

One final comment: We can't kill Okaros yet, because no one faction will have parity. Once FM is dead, the puzzle of how to kill Okaros will be next. I can't promise to work with you to kill Okaros, since he might still be on my team. I've got to check on that tonight. But for tonight, at least, I think we should work together.
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Re: Night 8. Surprisingly Close.

Postby 7-zark-7 » 29 May 2014, 16:20:33

This might be the last stand of house Vampirian. I regret the glitter in the sun thing, and also not using our seer power on a more regular basis.

Suggest GA 7-Zark-7 & Seer Furinmirado as our night actions.

Less in a bit,

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Re: Night 8. Surprisingly Close.

Postby twdog » 29 May 2014, 16:25:59

Well this is unfortunate, although not unexpected

I'm sitting in a drivethrough on my commute home, so I guess it's crappy news to go with crappy food :lol:

---


Also, if you're a traitor, I hope you lone wolf it all the way to a solo victory
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Re: Night 8. Surprisingly Close.

Postby 7-zark-7 » 29 May 2014, 16:42:18

twdog wrote:Well this is unfortunate, although not unexpected

I'm sitting in a drivethrough on my commute home, so I guess it's crappy news to go with crappy food :lol:

---


Also, if you're a traitor, I hope you lone wolf it all the way to a solo victory


Sucks really. I'm not a convert, so presuming you also are not, "there's no parity" implies we had the only 2 person group left.

I don't believe switching to Furin would buy anything at this point (other than more animosity tomorrow), unfortunately.

Take care of yourself Issac - this is not the way I had hoped tonight would go down.

More in a bit,

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"The possibility that it's Zark simply murdering someone at a whim each day... would be delightful if true, but I worry that that's too simple a solution." - Okaros

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Re: Night 8. Surprisingly Close.

Postby twdog » 29 May 2014, 17:54:26

Thanks, and see you after the game
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