Torture Cubicle 3

[Hellheart]

Oh God no, don't go after Rictus. He just buried two consecutive wolves and was voted on by rekard on the day prior where he only saved himself with an EOD vote snipe.

Rictus' response is a bit too harsh, but I'll allow him his feeling of triumph given that he had lost the game to RAND 40 minutes ago.

EDIT: Although just based on my own reaction, that response would tilt a lot of people who are already feeling pretty defeated. It's a smart thing to do in that light, but I could barely read it through all that smug.

[Iron Clad Burrito]

Fuzz dies, game over, wolves win; or rekard dies and Rictus is still alive but on the side that voted for a human.

You should have stopped at your last post, Ryvvn, you're telling everyone that you know fuzz is a human. No one announced it, and you're not the seer... the only way you KNOW is that you're the last wolf.

----

Jeez, this is more of a nail-biter than I thought.

[Ozymandias]

GM, if you do allow locking (and I think you should, just to put Ryvvn out of his misery), then you should probably clearly explain the concept to That PJ so he doesn't do anything rash.

Never mind.

[Hellheart]

Fuzz dies, game over, wolves win; or rekard dies and Rictus is still alive but on the side that voted for a human.

You should have stopped at your last post, Ryvvn, you're telling everyone that you know fuzz is a human. No one announced it, and you're not the seer... the only way you KNOW is that you're the last wolf.

----

Jeez, this is more of a nail-biter than I thought.

Well, he just voted for Fuzz so I agree that he certainly shouldn't have accepted it as apparent fact that quickly.

However, that EOD tally only makes sense if fuzzmz is human and the wolves had just RAND'ed the win. So if he had broached that in a more organic fashion, it wouldn't appear strange to me at all.

His recovery is too solid, not that it really matters now. Post that makes him look drunk as hell, apology and appeal to sleep, THEN a levelheaded post after noon. Added benefit of giving him time to really find and work an angle, which wouldn't have involved going after Rictus.

[FurinMirado]

GM, if you do allow locking (and I think you should, just to put Ryvvn out of his misery), then you should probably clearly explain the concept to That PJ so he doesn't do anything rash.

Never mind.

We were thinking the same thing

[FurinMirado]

I love that fuzzmz and That PJ have not only survived to the last Day but also get to choose who wins.

[Hellheart]

I love that fuzzmz and That PJ have not only survived to the last Day but also get to choose who wins.

Pffft, the most elite new players develop a system where that choice is not even necessary.

Until AVS fucks it all up, although we still got the power information we needed to clearly pick out the two humans.

[Iron Clad Burrito]

Fuzz dies, game over, wolves win; or rekard dies and Rictus is still alive but on the side that voted for a human.

You should have stopped at your last post, Ryvvn, you're telling everyone that you know fuzz is a human. No one announced it, and you're not the seer... the only way you KNOW is that you're the last wolf.

----

Jeez, this is more of a nail-biter than I thought.

Well, he just voted for Fuzz so I agree that he certainly shouldn't have accepted it as apparent fact that quickly.

However, that EOD tally only makes sense if fuzzmz is human and the wolves had just RAND'ed the win. So if he had broached that in a more organic fashion, it wouldn't appear strange to me at all.

I don't know that there's a good way to have broached that topic if you're human. Furin gave zero indication that the game had ended. I may be over-reading that with perfect knowledge, but I'd like to think, if I read that post closely enough, that I'd vote Ryvvn right there. And of the wolves surviving when I died, he was the one I wasn't going to find.

[Iron Clad Burrito]

I love that fuzzmz and That PJ have not only survived to the last Day but also get to choose who wins.

So much win.

[Smirker]

I love that fuzzmz and That PJ have not only survived to the last Day but also get to choose who wins.

So much win.

I Concur

[Blindsniper83]

Wow, with my votes you swear i was a seer and a Vigilante

[Okaros]

Ryvvn's argument against Rictus shouldn't hold a single drop of water because if Rictus and Rekard were the last two wolves Rictus could simply have switched his vote to fuzz at EOD and the wolves would have won the game last night, even ignoring Ryvvn's failed snipe on fuzz.



(I too am very pleased that it all boils down to the new folks, as it's a very fun way to end your first game. I can speak from experience on that, even if it does mean I have a still-unsatisified urge to horribly betray CAD )

[Smirker]

(I too am very pleased that it all boils down to the new folks, as it's a very fun way to end your first game. I can speak from experience on that, even if it does mean I have a still-unsatisified urge to horribly betray CAD )

[Hellheart]

I wonder what Rictus is playing at... other than probably just trying to get me to talk more and bury myself further.

Exactly what he's doing. Two angles too - the emotional angle and the "hey, why don't you accuse some other player so they have even more reason to vote for you" angle.

Wow, with my votes you swear i was a seer and a Vigilante

Nah...only half of your votes and the votes against you would make me swear you were a Seer. But you were definitely a Vigilante when you shot twdog out of the blue in cold blood and then didn't even try to justify it when he turned up human

[Iron Clad Burrito]

Ryvvn's argument against Rictus shouldn't hold a single drop of water because if Rictus and Rekard were the last two wolves Rictus could simply have switched his vote to fuzz at EOD and the wolves would have won the game last night, even ignoring Ryvvn's failed snipe on fuzz.



(I too am very pleased that it all boils down to the new folks, as it's a very fun way to end your first game. I can speak from experience on that, even if it does mean I have a still-unsatisified urge to horribly betray CAD )

Speaking of horrible betrayals, I somehow seem to have an urge to stab you in the testicles. I can't imagine why. :p

[Hellheart]

Must be the same steroids that had you erratically running through the ship, biting everyone you came across

[Omega]

Easy there Ryvvn on the "gameplay abilities" comment. :/

[Hellheart]

Easy there Ryvvn on the "gameplay abilities" comment. :/

The funny thing is that if they really do look back at previous games, the last game where Rictus was around on F6 was...Tempus Vigilantes, where Rictus was a human and was the only person to nail the last two wolves correctly before a last-minute vote snipe that actually was in time to win it for the wolves.

Pretty sure Ryvvn's making a sympathy play, hoping it resonates off of the smugness of that early post. The voting record is honestly all Rictus needs after Ryvvn's last few votes. Rictus did the coloring but hasn't mentioned it at all, so I feel like he's milking this a little.

Just a little.

[rekard]

Well, after reading thjngs.

First, humans have to defend themselves. They have to. Because you're human. You are only sure of yohrself and no one else. Leaving yourself to die only benefits the wolves, because they don't have to do anything. If a human survives without defending himself, he is likely to get accused of not wanting to kill a fellow wolf. Of course, if you're not confident of your votes or saying you're human, well that's how it is and death is unavoidable because the player is not willing to maintain his stand. On my case, I will never give up. It's one of the reasons of why I have NEVER been lynched on Day 2 or beyond as a human. And the only time I got lynched on day 1 as a human was because I forgot to PM my vote and had the EOD time wrong. But besides that, no human lynches.

Second. I always do this: I never reveal my hand early. I will throw a bunch of accusations even if I think them as human because it has the possibility of distracting the wolves or they fixate on that. It has worked a couple times, like in the Magic Word game when ICB tried to pin it on me, or in the Wolfing game where Admetus got ahold of that vote and tried to attack me. My method CAN be : vote on a guy at the start of the day, and then switch to my real target later in the day if my thoughts haven't changed. I mix it up by sometimes voting truly from the start. Or if I don't think someone is a wolf, I won't vote them. The only times I will reveal all my lists is when we are near death or something.

I snipe if I think is the correct choice, and even as a human and fail, well. I move on and see what else to do. Also, I do shenanigans at times, Ionitor style to try and catch wolves. Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't.

I know it makes me look wolfy, but well I think I seem honest when later I say I tried to do this and that. It helps though that wolves are almost always the first to "detect" the "wolfy" votes. Somehow, I do it correctly cuz it doesn't get me lynched

And last. Well seeing how wolfy I can be, I tend to sometimes choose my words as a human because people with trigger happy fingers will jump and shoot just because of historical easons, which I think it's dumb. I think this part helped me on my wolf game this time a lot.

In the end, I think that if CAD had participated a bit more or Ryvvn hadn't made that mistake of a post in the last day, we would have won. I would say maul management was good, because the focus was to avoid giving information from dead people. If you notice, yesterday 3 and 2 people were alive from the day 3 Visigoth and Admetus trains.

Clear, if you had voted on your last day, me and Ryvvn would have totally mass sniped. I would have suggested: I wil, vote 30 seconds before EOD, Ryvvn vote at :45.

So close, and just a couple errors. Oh well.

[Okaros]

Speaking of horrible betrayals, I somehow seem to have an urge to stab you in the testicles. I can't imagine why. :p

I welcome the horrifying revenge you inevitably craft for me.

Depending on the exact timing of when the next game starts, your next chance may happen soon!

[rekard]

Easy there Ryvvn on the "gameplay abilities" comment. :/

The funny thing is that if they really do look back at previous games, the last game where Rictus was around on F6 was...Tempus Vigilantes, where Rictus was a human and was the only person to nail the last two wolves correctly before a last-minute vote snipe that actually was in time to win it for the wolves.

Pretty sure Ryvvn's making a sympathy play, hoping it resonates off of the smugness of that early post. The voting record is honestly all Rictus needs after Ryvvn's last few votes. Rictus did the coloring but hasn't mentioned it at all, so I feel like he's milking this a little.

Just a little.

It's a very low chance after that over dramatic post. The Blindsniper maul was done in chances of the humans questioning themselves. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. It is never guaranteed. If someone says, "The Blindsniper maul makes no sense. It points straight at Ryvvn", there is a chance there. Low chance but there is. You never know.

[rekard]

Ryvvn's argument against Rictus shouldn't hold a single drop of water because if Rictus and Rekard were the last two wolves Rictus could simply have switched his vote to fuzz at EOD and the wolves would have won the game last night, even ignoring Ryvvn's failed snipe on fuzz.



(I too am very pleased that it all boils down to the new folks, as it's a very fun way to end your first game. I can speak from experience on that, even if it does mean I have a still-unsatisified urge to horribly betray CAD )

Speaking of horrible betrayals, I somehow seem to have an urge to stab you in the testicles. I can't imagine why. :p

Look who's talking. I never forget.

[Iron Clad Burrito]

Ryvvn's argument against Rictus shouldn't hold a single drop of water because if Rictus and Rekard were the last two wolves Rictus could simply have switched his vote to fuzz at EOD and the wolves would have won the game last night, even ignoring Ryvvn's failed snipe on fuzz.



(I too am very pleased that it all boils down to the new folks, as it's a very fun way to end your first game. I can speak from experience on that, even if it does mean I have a still-unsatisified urge to horribly betray CAD )

Speaking of horrible betrayals, I somehow seem to have an urge to stab you in the testicles. I can't imagine why. :p

Look who's talking. I never forget.

For efficiency' sake, could I convince you to betray Okaros?

[Hellheart]

First, humans have to defend themselves. They have to. Because you're human. You are only sure of yohrself and no one else. Leaving yourself to die only benefits the wolves, because they don't have to do anything. If a human survives without defending himself, he is likely to get accused of not wanting to kill a fellow wolf.

Well, one thing I have never been guilty of is rolling over and letting myself be killed.

My disregard for my own life is a natural consequence of my aggressiveness as a wolf-hunter, rather than a willingness to give up as a human. Even if I think my death is inevitable, I try to bring it about in such a way that I have the time to both give my reads and generate as many interactions as possible for the remaining humans to hopefully pick out a wolf or two. Even when I outed sphenodont as a sacrificial move in the lovers' game, it was done specifically to reduce the wolf suspicion towards me that day so I could deliver my reads and see how players adjusted.

Then all I need to do is be right and avoid posting nonsense. Easy-peasy!

[rekard]

I used to be more aggressive, but a bit of balance has helped my survival and accuracy.

[Hellheart]

I used to be more aggressive, but a bit of balance has helped my survival and accuracy.

My only goal is to make nicotine-withdrawal DOM's plays look like well-reasoned actions taken with the patience of a saint.

(( I've never been one for balance, and the hyperaggressive extreme is an order of magnitude more fun for me than a very subdued approach. ))

[Hellheart]

I'm not sure what's going on anymore, or what might actually happen, but this tea is pretty good.

This is either the British national anthem or their battle cry. I always forget which is which.

[DastardlyOldMan]

"Sure, we don’t have so much money
Or as many bombs or guns
But what we lack in armaments
We make up for with hot cross buns

Tea, Mother f----- f-----, Tea."

(No idea why, the Narnia Rap battle(s) always stick in my head).

[sphenodont]

(I too am very pleased that it all boils down to the new folks, as it's a very fun way to end your first game. I can speak from experience on that, even if it does mean I have a still-unsatisified urge to horribly betray CAD )

Fuzzmz isn't new. He's been here off and on since the first game.

(Maybe he's actually the first werewolf.)

[DastardlyOldMan]

(I too am very pleased that it all boils down to the new folks, as it's a very fun way to end your first game. I can speak from experience on that, even if it does mean I have a still-unsatisified urge to horribly betray CAD )

Fuzzmz isn't new. He's been here off and on since the first game.

(Maybe he's actually the first werewolf.)

He went by AndrewC on ~some of the older boards - the name change makes him *seem* new, so that he can take advantage of unsuspecting wolves!

[Okaros]

Fuzzmz isn't new. He's been here off and on since the first game.

(Maybe he's actually the first werewolf.)

He went by AndrewC on ~some of the older boards - the name change makes him *seem* new, so that he can take advantage of unsuspecting wolves!

Well, that's just brilliant then.

I'd say it's also nice for returning players to be in the final driver's seat too, just as a "welcome back" sort of thing.


Speaking of PJ... Noooooo, what are you doing?!?

I can understand the "maybe it's not Ryvvn maybe it's fuzz" angle (though after that failed snipe?), but Rictus should be practically seered human at this point. A wolf, particularly a veteran, isn't going to pass up a win-the-game scenario like that, and his last-minute post in the previous day's thread certainly proves he had the opportunity to snipe for the win.

Hopefully Rictus will point that out in his own defense. Ryvvn could actually score noticeable human-points by doing so, but they'd be far too little, too late to save him from Rictus.


Definitely tense final-day drama from a game that looked like it was going to be a wolf steamroller at the start.

[rekard]

Never underestimate paranoia.

Things can be spun in different ways.Notice how I held off from Rictus. Or how Rictus is still alive after yesterday. And it can be argued that Rictus' timing has been very convenient. Blind getting killed sounds also too convenient and pointing at Ryvvn. Or Rictus getting paranoid from Ryyvn's post and thinking the safe action was guaranteeing my death.

As I said, low chances to win, but not impossible.

[Ozymandias]

It's funny, I think Ryvvn's late snipe is actually causing some doubt in Rictus, because it's hard to imagine a Wolf screwing up so badly

[rekard]

As I said, paranoia.

I think we wolves did a good job to avoid total wolf or human confirmation of anyone. It was cool that everyone was always reasonably suspicious.

[Mister E. Meat]

First, humans have to defend themselves. They have to. Because you're human. You are only sure of yourself and no one else. Leaving yourself to die only benefits the wolves, because they don't have to do anything. If a human survives without defending himself, he is likely to get accused of not wanting to kill a fellow wolf. Of course, if you're not confident of your votes or saying you're human, well that's how it is and death is unavoidable because the player is not willing to maintain his stand. On my case, I will never give up. It's one of the reasons of why I have NEVER been lynched on Day 2 or beyond as a human. And the only time I got lynched on day 1 as a human was because I forgot to PM my vote and had the EOD time wrong. But besides that, no human lynches.

I disagree, simply because defending and fighting too hard when you're human just ends up derailing conversations and IMO makes it easier for wolves to hide. Because often, you will still be a target the next day and the next day and the next day. Now, I'm not saying you shouldn't say something like, "You're making a mistake. XYZ is a much better lynch target because of <PROOF>" but making a huge case about it is just going to draw attention to you. In general, whether human or wolf, I try to ignore pokes and even wagons on me and try to instead advance a cause that is better for my team. And hey, sometimes taking the bullet for your team is the best thing for them. If you're human, everyone will know your reads were made in good faith and if you're a wolf you can usually deflect suspicion from your teammates.

[Ozymandias]

First, humans have to defend themselves. They have to. Because you're human. You are only sure of yourself and no one else. Leaving yourself to die only benefits the wolves, because they don't have to do anything. If a human survives without defending himself, he is likely to get accused of not wanting to kill a fellow wolf. Of course, if you're not confident of your votes or saying you're human, well that's how it is and death is unavoidable because the player is not willing to maintain his stand. On my case, I will never give up. It's one of the reasons of why I have NEVER been lynched on Day 2 or beyond as a human. And the only time I got lynched on day 1 as a human was because I forgot to PM my vote and had the EOD time wrong. But besides that, no human lynches.

I disagree, simply because defending and fighting too hard when you're human just ends up derailing conversations and IMO makes it easier for wolves to hide. Because often, you will still be a target the next day and the next day and the next day. Now, I'm not saying you shouldn't say something like, "You're making a mistake. XYZ is a much better lynch target because of <PROOF>" but making a huge case about it is just going to draw attention to you. In general, whether human or wolf, I try to ignore pokes and even wagons on me and try to instead advance a cause that is better for my team. And hey, sometimes taking the bullet for your team is the best thing for them. If you're human, everyone will know your reads were made in good faith and if you're a wolf you can usually deflect suspicion from your teammates.

So by that logic you think you should sometimes vote to lynch yourself?

[twdog]

Holy crap a tie! But I wouldn't be surprised if it's a ploy by fuzzmz or That PJ to see if ryvvn will say something damning about himself ... then again, he's already said damning things so who even knows?

[Ozymandias]

Holy crap a tie! But I wouldn't be surprised if it's a ploy by fuzzmz or That PJ to see if ryvvn will say something damning about himself ... then again, he's already said damning things so who even knows?

What tie?

It's three votes for Rictus, one for Ryvvn.

[twdog]

Derp

---

even more astounding

[Omega]

And people will ignore him tomorrow that Ryvvn is the last wolf and the wolves will win.

No one remembers a dying human's cries.

I may not have called it exactly right, but... God damn it, humans! To come back from that day 1, to finish like this?!

[rekard]

Paranoia takes away. Paranoia gives back. This in the least assures a coinflip since Fuzz is not likely to come back. Ryvvn he has to declare a maul!

I like to think this would have been different if we didn't maul Blind, as I bet there would be retaliation against Ryvvn.

[Omega]

I just... How is there any question after that combination of post and missed snipe? I mean? Really?

[twdog]

If he manages to win this thing you should give him a title like "causes goldfish memories" or "never gets called out" or something

[Hellheart]

I just... How is there any question after that combination of post and missed snipe? I mean? Really?

I honestly don't even want to comment. In Rictus' spot, I'd try to make the strongest logical argument possible - which I don't think he's done as far as building a human case for himself, which quite frankly shouldn't be hard, but I imagine he's working right now.

And then if they still voted for me, I would say a lot of things about them that I'd probably regret a week or so down the line, when I finally calmed down.

(( It wouldn't go down like that, but that's what I'd feel like doing. I'd probably just cast my vote and not open the thread again until I calmed down. Which probably would take a week. ))

[Okaros]

First the poisoning, now this... Holy crap Ryvvn. Is Reagan your father or something? That's some STRONG teflon coating!

[Hellheart]

Welp, time for bed, maybe I'll wake up and this whole thing will have been rekard's bad dream...


...probably Hellheart's too.

thumbsup.jpg

[rekard]

I just... How is there any question after that combination of post and missed snipe? I mean? Really?

Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive.

You only need one sliver of doubt to cause a chain reaction. One what if. One wrong word or one stray thought. And down the rabbit hole.

When you go into the unknown, how certain are you? How do you know you are right?

You don't. And despair feeds on that. You look and there is no answer.

Hellheart, sometimes it won't be about logic, but about how players feel about you. You could turn into the Perfect Wolf Hunter, but it only takes one thought : "Why is he so perfect? He probably is a wolf" and BAM! you get lynched. At that moment, player perception is what will matter.

[Iron Clad Burrito]

Dangit, Ryvvn gave it away with his first two posts today, and no one is seeing it. Urgh.

[rekard]

First, humans have to defend themselves. They have to. Because you're human. You are only sure of yourself and no one else. Leaving yourself to die only benefits the wolves, because they don't have to do anything. If a human survives without defending himself, he is likely to get accused of not wanting to kill a fellow wolf. Of course, if you're not confident of your votes or saying you're human, well that's how it is and death is unavoidable because the player is not willing to maintain his stand. On my case, I will never give up. It's one of the reasons of why I have NEVER been lynched on Day 2 or beyond as a human. And the only time I got lynched on day 1 as a human was because I forgot to PM my vote and had the EOD time wrong. But besides that, no human lynches.

I disagree, simply because defending and fighting too hard when you're human just ends up derailing conversations and IMO makes it easier for wolves to hide. Because often, you will still be a target the next day and the next day and the next day. Now, I'm not saying you shouldn't say something like, "You're making a mistake. XYZ is a much better lynch target because of <PROOF>" but making a huge case about it is just going to draw attention to you. In general, whether human or wolf, I try to ignore pokes and even wagons on me and try to instead advance a cause that is better for my team. And hey, sometimes taking the bullet for your team is the best thing for them. If you're human, everyone will know your reads were made in good faith and if you're a wolf you can usually deflect suspicion from your teammates.

Well, I only mean to defend when there is a wagon of importance. What you said works if you know what people will think, which is highly improbable. And unless you are a seer, people will have no idea of what you may have meant, or if it was accurate. In the big picture, being there as a human means 1 more day to talk. Also, defending yourself can root out wolves in unexpected ways.

[Hellheart]

I think when you leave new or rusty people to their own devices this late in the game, they're going to default to whatever will back up their original perceptions. Rictus linking the Tempus Vigilantes game could help him a ton by itself, but it may not be enough.