Dead Chat

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Re: Dead Chat

Postby Visigoth » 05 Sep 2014, 19:56:35

Hellheart wrote:
Aldax wrote:Yeah, it seems like things are about to get really interesting, I'm rooting for the human team, but Visi making a lone wolf victory sounds way more awesome

Not to me, and probably not to him later on if this actually happens again.

Think about it. If he wins a second consecutive lone wolf victory, he will ALWAYS be lynched in midgame no matter how human he seems to be. He can never make it anywhere near the finals ever again.
Honestly I expect it anyhow since it seems that people have a hard time reading me as a wolf or human. And if it happened I wouldn't mind as long as I had fun playing. Of course since the number of times I've been a wolf compared to how many games I've played would more often than not mean they'd be killing a human off. Even if I get ghosted on Day 1 of the next game (come on Seer role) I wouldn't mind that much since I could understand why.

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Re: Dead Chat

Postby Hellheart » 05 Sep 2014, 20:23:30

Visigoth wrote:
Hellheart wrote:
Aldax wrote:Yeah, it seems like things are about to get really interesting, I'm rooting for the human team, but Visi making a lone wolf victory sounds way more awesome

Not to me, and probably not to him later on if this actually happens again.

Think about it. If he wins a second consecutive lone wolf victory, he will ALWAYS be lynched in midgame no matter how human he seems to be. He can never make it anywhere near the finals ever again.
Honestly I expect it anyhow since it seems that people have a hard time reading me as a wolf or human. And if it happened I wouldn't mind as long as I had fun playing. Of course since the number of times I've been a wolf compared to how many games I've played would more often than not mean they'd be killing a human off. Even if I get ghosted on Day 1 of the next game (come on Seer role) I wouldn't mind that much since I could understand why.

I don't think killing you off early has much utility. Doing it mid-game makes much more sense to me, if I were to go that route.

That said, Ravebomb caught onto you. He's not a normal end-game player, but that gives me some faith anyway.

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Re: Dead Chat

Postby DastardlyOldMan » 06 Sep 2014, 07:31:47

Don't let RaveBomb fool you with his randomness - he *is* a good end-game player, he just doesn't like to let on. I forget which game(s) it was, but he's gotten me something fierce once or twice in the end-game.

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Re: Dead Chat

Postby DastardlyOldMan » 06 Sep 2014, 07:59:30

FurinMirado wrote:Ryvvn thank you for the game.

Unfortunately it is my last for the year. I can no longer reconcile the demands of work and the demands of this game. I wish you all the best of luck. Hopefully I will see you again in 2015.

I can understand Furin's situation here, and it's one I fight with a lot. When I joined up here a couple of years ago :flail:, I had a pretty decent amount of free time at work, but since then, I've gone tech lead and pseudo-architect and primary-business-analyst and ~scrum-master and best-practices guru and Git branch manager and . . . well, just tons of stuff (I love my job, and at the end of the day, I know I've done some good stuff, but I'm also mentally drained much of the time). Some days, I'm lucky to sit at my desk long enough to scan over my 500-email backlog.

I still like to play wolf, but I definitely don't have the time to "do it right" - to play the game that I want to be playing, where I'm active and engaging and reading and rereading and tearing my hair out. I still sign up, because I think a game of 20+ players is more fun than a game of 10+ players, but I definitely can't devote all the attention, and so I enjoy it less than I could be (which is entirely on me).

This game, for example: I really don't like to be the quiet wolf - it's too easy to just log a vote and not say anything and go through without challenging or putting yourself out there, but that's also almost not-playing-the-game. I really liked that last day, where I was trying to divert attention in a specific way and engaging the humans - that's the only day that I really felt like I had the time to play (although as a wolf, I do find myself deleting a lot of posts in the day thread anyhow, before hitting submit).

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Re: Dead Chat

Postby DastardlyOldMan » 06 Sep 2014, 08:02:53

(he said, while watching a half-dozen IRC windows blink at him, in hour 4 of a release on a Saturday)

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Re: Dead Chat

Postby Admetus » 06 Sep 2014, 14:05:12

Haven't read through the dead thread yet. Probably it would help if I got very drunk before I did that. (I don't really do that.)

A couple comments on the wolf threads:


Subject: Night 5

DastardlyOldMan wrote:
Elvera wrote:but if we had to maul someone what would you say to choosing between Admetus, RaveBomb or Hellheart?

I think there's still some nagging suspicion on the first two that will have them picking up votes, but I think HH makes sense.

Maybe Hellheart -> Admetus?

All three of them are strong players, probably Admetus is the strongest when he brings his A-game.

:cry: Sigh. Thanks for the compliment, but so very not this game. Hm, we should have a facepalm smiley. How about one of these? ImageImageImageImage Image


Subject: Night 10

DastardlyOldMan wrote:If any of the humans stop thinking about who one of the wolves are, and start thinking about who *both* of the wolves are, they're going to get us - it's almost exactly the same situation that Hellheart and I were in with Rictus a few games back (Tempus Vigilantus), where he figured it out about 10 minutes before EOD.

I mean, there's no way RaveBomb and blindsniper are both wolves (I mean, holy long-con-for-human-cred, Batman). At this point, it's highly unlikely that Admetus and RaveBomb are both wolves voting on each other for lynch-or-lose day. I think a comb through the voting record would show that Visigoth and I *never* interacted - if people were looking at the last five people in sets of two (I know, I did just that, but perfect information bias, etc).

Well, the problem is that Blindsniper fits with anyone. Even RaveBomb, I'd say, though it wouldn't be my first guess. I did try to see if there was a pair of people that particularly fit, but that didn't work for me.

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Re: Dead Chat

Postby Omega » 06 Sep 2014, 14:06:18

Probably go with the Ars one, unless you guys want a different one.

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Re: Dead Chat

Postby Admetus » 06 Sep 2014, 19:01:43

Yeah I only noticed that was from Ars when I pasted the URL. Probably that's best.

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Re: Dead Chat

Postby Admetus » 06 Sep 2014, 21:52:35

dferrantino wrote:Of course, suspicion also goes squarely on me if I do any kind of early analysis, or make posts with no substance whatsoever, or call people out on their bullshit, or post at all, which is why the last few games where I've ended up as a wolf I've almost invariably offered myself up for sacrifice.

I'm sorry! I did claim one of those when I pushed you out front. Do more analysis, I won't lynch you for it, I promise. :)

Subject: Dead Chat

Clearasday wrote:Has Admetushad any correct hunches this game? And this is why I've always said we need a mix of both vote interpretation and gut feelings on posts. Vote reading only gets you so far and as rave and I have both said this game, bad plays does not a wolf make.

No. I was completely useless to the humans, which is why I ended up in the final set. Believe me I wasn't just using vote analysis. I several times picked a person because they felt wolfy, like you, CAD. It didn't help me.

The sad part is, I had all the pieces I needed. I had several reasons to distrust DOM. I knew Visigoth was one of the most likely to be a wolf at the end game. They just didn't all gel together.

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Re: Dead Chat

Postby Admetus » 06 Sep 2014, 21:58:27

Regarding all the "DOM should have been policy lynched near late game," all I can say is it reads like horseshit. "The wolves would never have let human-DOM live to late game," followed by "DOM would have solved it all, his stalling was transparent." No, sorry, I'm sure that sounds good from the dead seats, but sometimes real life happens. Sounds like it actually was happening, too. It wasn't at all suspicious.

My hat's off to DOM, who was the one I saw as most human there. Even though my performance in this game was pretty bad, I still think it's DOM's (and the wolves') credit more than my (or the humans') failure.

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Re: Dead Chat

Postby Hellheart » 07 Sep 2014, 12:19:30

Admetus wrote:Regarding all the "DOM should have been policy lynched near late game," all I can say is it reads like horseshit. "The wolves would never have let human-DOM live to late game," followed by "DOM would have solved it all, his stalling was transparent." No, sorry, I'm sure that sounds good from the dead seats, but sometimes real life happens. Sounds like it actually was happening, too. It wasn't at all suspicious.

My hat's off to DOM, who was the one I saw as most human there. Even though my performance in this game was pretty bad, I still think it's DOM's (and the wolves') credit more than my (or the humans') failure.

You always have to filter everything through what's been happening in any given game, so it's not something you automatically do. I'll agree with you there. But I think you're not putting much thought into the wolves' thinking process when they choose somebody to maul.

There are games where human-DOM is going to live until the end. Maybe the wolves had to maul a bunch of known or assumed humans, or maybe he's been getting a lot of voting pressure from humans. The point is, human-DOM is there at endgame for a reason and you should be able to figure out what that reason is. If you can't figure out why the wolves didn't maul DOM earlier, then it's up to him to show that he's human by making a convincing wolf case.

Of course, DOM just happens to be really convincing. Players in that position know that they need to do something exceptional to battle natural suspicion, and DOM is one of the players who will consistently deliver. If as a wolf I'm given the choice to maul somebody like Blindsniper/Meta4 or DOM in the late game, I may even opt to maul unconfirmed-DOM over confirmed-human-Blindsniper/Meta4 because I can reliably predict what the latter is going to do.

Fear is a powerful motivator. Justified fear is doubly so.

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Re: Dead Chat

Postby Admetus » 07 Sep 2014, 12:49:03

Meh. I don't agree. Plus, there was a perfectly good excuse up through CAD's death, which was the ongoing animosity between them. After that, there were reasonable explanations for every maul.

In the future, I'll make sure I guide all my actions by these obvious rules that aren't in any way open to subversion by the wolves.

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Re: Dead Chat

Postby DastardlyOldMan » 07 Sep 2014, 14:55:53

I have to think that you guys are giving me maybe a bit too much credit. I used to be the guy you wanted end-game, solely because I *would* get snowed. FurinMirado, MEM, NavyGothic, I don't know how many others have had me in this exact same end-game situation (where I was a human), and I happily lynched the wrong guy with absolute authority. I've gotten better at revisiting my "confirmed human" assumptions, but they still happen to me regularly. Last game was a perfect example of me doing nearly nothing to advance the human cause.

I have also adapted from a pure analysis mode to a more gut-feel mode (there were some comments earlier in the thread around that being out of character for me). As CAD mentioned, though, the mix of the two is where that gets really powerful - it's also something I can do with more limited time.

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Re: Dead Chat

Postby Hellheart » 07 Sep 2014, 18:27:02

I would hazard that there are now plenty of quiet, time-limited players that are very predictable. Those are the players that the wolves want in the end, assuming of course that they aren't randomly going after a wolf at the time.

I would have LOVED to see That PJ substituted for Meta4 near the end there. Perfect example of the difference between a quiet player and a relatively inexperienced, but passionate player with time to devote to the game.

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Re: Dead Chat

Postby Admin » 08 Sep 2014, 15:34:34

Admetus wrote:Hm, we should have a facepalm smiley. How about one of these? Image


As requested, :facepalm: has been added.

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Re: Dead Chat

Postby Visigoth » 08 Sep 2014, 15:38:23

Admin wrote:
Admetus wrote:Hm, we should have a facepalm smiley. How about one of these? Image


As requested, :facepalm: has been added.

Whenever I see the avatar for this account I think of the B5 Psi Corps Black Omega squadron symbol.

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Re: Dead Chat

Postby Ryvvn » 08 Sep 2014, 15:52:49

Admin wrote:
Admetus wrote:Hm, we should have a facepalm smiley. How about one of these? Image


As requested, :facepalm: has been added.

Still waiting on some sort of :slowclap: ;)

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Re: Dead Chat

Postby Omega » 08 Sep 2014, 17:09:51

Find one you like, post a link the gif.

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Re: Dead Chat

Postby Admetus » 08 Sep 2014, 17:50:47

Thanks!

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Re: Dead Chat

Postby Okaros » 08 Sep 2014, 21:03:56

Omega wrote:Find one you like, post a link the gif.



http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2014 ... oticon.gif

Image

(Finding good *slow* clapping smiley faces is a bit challenging)
I kind of assume Okaros is out to backstab me until proven otherwise. - DOM

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Re: Dead Chat

Postby Snake » 09 Sep 2014, 02:01:04

Can we get a better :lol: or at least an alternate.

Image

Is a great one.

It's the angular chins. They unnerve me.

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Re: Dead Chat

Postby Ryvvn » 09 Sep 2014, 05:48:17

Haha, that's a great one, Okaros; it'll be the perfect response to Hellheart's "I was totally right about everything" posts ;)

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Re: Dead Chat

Postby 7-zark-7 » 09 Sep 2014, 12:42:41

Hellheart wrote:I would hazard that there are now plenty of quiet, time-limited players that are very predictable.


You know, two out of three ain't bad

More in a bit,

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